Should Jermaine come off the bench?

[Surferdad]

I don't think Baby and Harangody are both going to be in the rotation.  If Harangody really impresses, I think the C's may end up trading BBD midseason and using Harangody as KG's backup.  In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Danny may have drafted Harangody hoping that will happen. 

I love Baby, but he's a free agent next summer.  It's quite possible that the C's don't re-sign him.  While he's a great contributor on a championship team, I don't believe Ainge sees him as the power forward of the future here.  And if he's not the power forward of the future, then there isn't a point in giving him a contract that could hinder our ability to acquire big time free agents down the road. 

And Baby might be our most valuable asset we're willing to trade.  He wouldn't hurt anyone's bank account this year, he comes off the books next year, and trading for him could allow teams over the cap to re-sign him with Bird rights. 

At 6'7", Harangody is not a power forward.  He's another tweener like Ryan Gomes.

That said, I agree that Baby may not be the "power forward of the future", but he certainly is the backup power forward of the present.

[StartOrien]

Awful idea. KG would get manhandled at the Center position.

By who? Maybe Dwight Howard, and.....

[StartOrien]

I don't think Baby and Harangody are both going to be in the rotation. 

Again, as the team is presently constructed, with only a few other bigs out there, what are our other options?

Again, the point of my post wasn't that I think Baby is better than O'Neal or that Harangoody is a tremendous player, it's that as things are presently constructed I would think it'd be in the teams best interest to split up the two guys with length that we have. If they start together, we'll have no option than play two undersized PF's as our front court.

[Who]

Wherever Jermaine does the least amount of damage to the Celtics offense is where he should play.

That means wherever he'll be asked to create the least amount of his own offense (post ups). Likely with the starters.

Limit the damage as much as possible.

  Remember, he's replacing Perk. Are you expecting the switch from Perk to JO to damage our offense?

When Jermaine O'Neal plays off of others and finishes plays he is an effective offensive player. Someone who will score at a solid clip and with good-to-very good efficiency. Very good finisher around the rim and has a serviceable jump shot out to about 15-16 feet.

When Jermaine O'Neal is asked to create his own offense he becomes the most ineffective offensive player in the league. He is a poor passer, he spends too long on the ball and consequently creates stagnant offenses. In his one-on-one offense he also scores at a horribly inefficient rate. The combination of those two large negative contributions has a large negative effect on his teams offense. It's been this way for three years now.

The key to Jermaine O'Neal being a useful player versus a net negative is avoiding him creating his own offense. When he creates his own offense he hurts his own team. When Jermaine is asked to create offensively he negates his positives contributions (defense, rebounding, complementary offense).

----------------------------------------------

On this Celtics team, I have no confidence whatsoever about Jermaine being given and/or accepting his role.

After watching Glen Davis take advantage of a fairly equal opportunity offense and try to create his own offense last season + how desperate this team is for a low post presence with KG refusing to do so and Sheed retiring ... I am terrified of the role Jermaine O'Neal is going to have offensively for this team next season.

------------------------------------------------

Jermaine O'Neal is a much better fit alongside a ball dominating player like a Dwyane Wade or a Chris Paul. Someone who will spoon feed him like a child. Not let him screw up the team's offense by pretending he is still 25 and a talented go-to scorer.

[Birdbrain]

Wherever Jermaine does the least amount of damage to the Celtics offense is where he should play.

That means wherever he'll be asked to create the least amount of his own offense (post ups). Likely with the starters.

Limit the damage as much as possible.

  Remember, he's replacing Perk. Are you expecting the switch from Perk to JO to damage our offense?

Yeah I can't fathom someone actually thinking the offense will be worse but, homerism is a badge of honor.  And something I partake in from time to time.  But the fact that he's replacing Kendrick 'I have moves like Mchale' Perkins is so far past homerism that it's got it's own zip code.

The only thing worse for your offense than a player with limited offensive game, is a player with limited offensive game who thinks he's a go to scorer.

I prefer someone that knows he's a 3rd or 4th option (not sure where the concept of JO being some kind of ball hog game from, perhaps left field) but, actually has the ability to be able to score when called upon and isn't being left wide open.

[ben]

NOOOOO

we need a center and perkins is hurt and bbd is terrrrrible


Concerning the backup situation, it is what it is, we only have one center, so the rookie guy harangody will have to play it, unless we sign shaq, cross fingers!

[Birdbrain]

Wherever Jermaine does the least amount of damage to the Celtics offense is where he should play.

That means wherever he'll be asked to create the least amount of his own offense (post ups). Likely with the starters.

Limit the damage as much as possible.

  Remember, he's replacing Perk. Are you expecting the switch from Perk to JO to damage our offense?

When Jermaine O'Neal plays off of others and finishes plays he is an effective offensive player. Someone who will score at a solid clip and with good-to-very good efficiency. Very good finisher around the rim and has a serviceable jump shot out to about 15-16 feet.

When Jermaine O'Neal is asked to create his own offense he becomes the most ineffective offensive player in the league. He is a poor passer, he spends too long on the ball and consequently creates stagnant offenses. In his one-on-one offense he also scores at a horribly inefficient rate. The combination of those two large negative contributions has a large negative effect on his teams offense. It's been this way for three years now.

The key to Jermaine O'Neal being a useful player versus a net negative is avoiding him creating his own offense. When he creates his own offense he hurts his own team. When Jermaine is asked to create offensively he negates his positives contributions (defense, rebounding, complementary offense).

----------------------------------------------

On this Celtics team, I have no confidence whatsoever about Jermaine being given and/or accepting his role.

After watching Glen Davis take advantage of a fairly equal opportunity offense and try to create his own offense last season + how desperate this team is for a low post presence with KG refusing to do so and Sheed retiring ... I am terrified of the role Jermaine O'Neal is going to have offensively for this team next season.

------------------------------------------------

Jermaine O'Neal is a much better fit alongside a ball dominating player like a Dwyane Wade or a Chris Paul. Someone who will spoon feed him like a child. Not let him screw up the team's offense by pretending he is still 25 and a talented go-to scorer.

There just really is no reason for this to be a concern, IMO  If you don't think Rondo and KG will be feeding him layup after layup I have to question which team you've been watching.  I mean comparing the feeds he got from Wade to Boston's passing is like going from chopped steak to Filet Mignon.  You aren't seriously suggesting that setups he got in Miami will be better than Boston are you?  Wade couldn't hold candle to Rondo in passing dept.  The addition of JO will make the offense infinetly better without question.

[illantari]

Wherever Jermaine does the least amount of damage to the Celtics offense is where he should play.

That means wherever he'll be asked to create the least amount of his own offense (post ups). Likely with the starters.

Limit the damage as much as possible.

  Remember, he's replacing Perk. Are you expecting the switch from Perk to JO to damage our offense?

When Jermaine O'Neal plays off of others and finishes plays he is an effective offensive player. Someone who will score at a solid clip and with good-to-very good efficiency. Very good finisher around the rim and has a serviceable jump shot out to about 15-16 feet.

When Jermaine O'Neal is asked to create his own offense he becomes the most ineffective offensive player in the league. He is a poor passer, he spends too long on the ball and consequently creates stagnant offenses. In his one-on-one offense he also scores at a horribly inefficient rate. The combination of those two large negative contributions has a large negative effect on his teams offense. It's been this way for three years now.

The key to Jermaine O'Neal being a useful player versus a net negative is avoiding him creating his own offense. When he creates his own offense he hurts his own team. When Jermaine is asked to create offensively he negates his positives contributions (defense, rebounding, complementary offense).
...
Jermaine O'Neal is a much better fit alongside a ball dominating player like a Dwyane Wade or a Chris Paul. Someone who will spoon feed him like a child.

You mean like Rajon Rondo? 

(Edit: in light of recent conversations I feel the need to explain that I mean RR can spoon feed him his offense, not that RR is like DWade or CP3)

[BballTim]

Wherever Jermaine does the least amount of damage to the Celtics offense is where he should play.

That means wherever he'll be asked to create the least amount of his own offense (post ups). Likely with the starters.

Limit the damage as much as possible.

  Remember, he's replacing Perk. Are you expecting the switch from Perk to JO to damage our offense?

When Jermaine O'Neal plays off of others and finishes plays he is an effective offensive player. Someone who will score at a solid clip and with good-to-very good efficiency. Very good finisher around the rim and has a serviceable jump shot out to about 15-16 feet.

When Jermaine O'Neal is asked to create his own offense he becomes the most ineffective offensive player in the league. He is a poor passer, he spends too long on the ball and consequently creates stagnant offenses. In his one-on-one offense he also scores at a horribly inefficient rate. The combination of those two large negative contributions has a large negative effect on his teams offense. It's been this way for three years now.

The key to Jermaine O'Neal being a useful player versus a net negative is avoiding him creating his own offense. When he creates his own offense he hurts his own team. When Jermaine is asked to create offensively he negates his positives contributions (defense, rebounding, complementary offense).
...
Jermaine O'Neal is a much better fit alongside a ball dominating player like a Dwyane Wade or a Chris Paul. Someone who will spoon feed him like a child.

You mean like Rajon Rondo? 

  Or PP, as the case may be.

[xmuscularghandix]

Any move that required KG playing Center is a bad move.

[Jon]

I don't think Baby and Harangody are both going to be in the rotation.  If Harangody really impresses, I think the C's may end up trading BBD midseason and using Harangody as KG's backup.  In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Danny may have drafted Harangody hoping that will happen. 

I love Baby, but he's a free agent next summer.  It's quite possible that the C's don't re-sign him.  While he's a great contributor on a championship team, I don't believe Ainge sees him as the power forward of the future here.  And if he's not the power forward of the future, then there isn't a point in giving him a contract that could hinder our ability to acquire big time free agents down the road. 

And Baby might be our most valuable asset we're willing to trade.  He wouldn't hurt anyone's bank account this year, he comes off the books next year, and trading for him could allow teams over the cap to re-sign him with Bird rights. 

At 6'7", Harangody is not a power forward.  He's another tweener like Ryan Gomes.

That said, I agree that Baby may not be the "power forward of the future", but he certainly is the backup power forward of the present.

True.  However, whatever Baby's listed at, he's not any taller than 6-6 or 6-7 either. 

I'm not looking to move Baby.  I'm simply saying this: we're likely going to get another big, maybe Shaq.  If we have a big lineup of KG, Jermaine, Shaq, Perk, and Hangarody, we can likely get by without Baby.  If we're still having trouble at the deadline at the 2/3 spots, Baby is going to be the player teams want being that he's not old, he's not injured, and expires this summer. 

And given that we could likely get by without him this year and that we may not want to give him the deal he wants next summer, using him to land a good 3 could be worth it. 

[KG_ended_Bias]

If Shaq signs with us, I would have no problem sending Jermaine O'Neal to the bench. He has proven nothing to the Celtics as of yet.                    

[Fafnir]

Wherever Jermaine does the least amount of damage to the Celtics offense is where he should play.

That means wherever he'll be asked to create the least amount of his own offense (post ups). Likely with the starters.

Limit the damage as much as possible.

  Remember, he's replacing Perk. Are you expecting the switch from Perk to JO to damage our offense?

When Jermaine O'Neal plays off of others and finishes plays he is an effective offensive player. Someone who will score at a solid clip and with good-to-very good efficiency. Very good finisher around the rim and has a serviceable jump shot out to about 15-16 feet.

When Jermaine O'Neal is asked to create his own offense he becomes the most ineffective offensive player in the league. He is a poor passer, he spends too long on the ball and consequently creates stagnant offenses. In his one-on-one offense he also scores at a horribly inefficient rate. The combination of those two large negative contributions has a large negative effect on his teams offense. It's been this way for three years now.

The key to Jermaine O'Neal being a useful player versus a net negative is avoiding him creating his own offense. When he creates his own offense he hurts his own team. When Jermaine is asked to create offensively he negates his positives contributions (defense, rebounding, complementary offense).

----------------------------------------------

On this Celtics team, I have no confidence whatsoever about Jermaine being given and/or accepting his role.

After watching Glen Davis take advantage of a fairly equal opportunity offense and try to create his own offense last season + how desperate this team is for a low post presence with KG refusing to do so and Sheed retiring ... I am terrified of the role Jermaine O'Neal is going to have offensively for this team next season.

------------------------------------------------

Jermaine O'Neal is a much better fit alongside a ball dominating player like a Dwyane Wade or a Chris Paul. Someone who will spoon feed him like a child. Not let him screw up the team's offense by pretending he is still 25 and a talented go-to scorer.

There just really is no reason for this to be a concern, IMO  If you don't think Rondo and KG will be feeding him layup after layup I have to question which team you've been watching.  I mean comparing the feeds he got from Wade to Boston's passing is like going from chopped steak to Filet Mignon.  You aren't seriously suggesting that setups he got in Miami will be better than Boston are you?  Wade couldn't hold candle to Rondo in passing dept.  The addition of JO will make the offense infinetly better without question.

How many times was Perkins, BBD, and other players allowed to post up? Quite a few, I think the team is likely to give O'Neal as least as many touches on the block.

Then there is also the question of will Jermaine pass the ball quickly and correctly. There is reason for concern, though I don't share Who's dire outlook.

[ManUp]

If Shaq comes yes.

[Who]

Wherever Jermaine does the least amount of damage to the Celtics offense is where he should play.

That means wherever he'll be asked to create the least amount of his own offense (post ups). Likely with the starters.

Limit the damage as much as possible.

  Remember, he's replacing Perk. Are you expecting the switch from Perk to JO to damage our offense?

When Jermaine O'Neal plays off of others and finishes plays he is an effective offensive player. Someone who will score at a solid clip and with good-to-very good efficiency. Very good finisher around the rim and has a serviceable jump shot out to about 15-16 feet.

When Jermaine O'Neal is asked to create his own offense he becomes the most ineffective offensive player in the league. He is a poor passer, he spends too long on the ball and consequently creates stagnant offenses. In his one-on-one offense he also scores at a horribly inefficient rate. The combination of those two large negative contributions has a large negative effect on his teams offense. It's been this way for three years now.

The key to Jermaine O'Neal being a useful player versus a net negative is avoiding him creating his own offense. When he creates his own offense he hurts his own team. When Jermaine is asked to create offensively he negates his positives contributions (defense, rebounding, complementary offense).
...
Jermaine O'Neal is a much better fit alongside a ball dominating player like a Dwyane Wade or a Chris Paul. Someone who will spoon feed him like a child.

You mean like Rajon Rondo? 

(Edit: in light of recent conversations I feel the need to explain that I mean RR can spoon feed him his offense, not that RR is like DWade or CP3)

Rajon Rondo isn't that player. He is more a well-rounded passer and pure floor general than that (to be clear -- this is a very good thing -- a compliment -- praise for his game and who he is as a player).

It's sort of like ... what they say about LeBron James ... that he only makes passes if he is going to get an assist. In other words, he only makes passes that puts his teammate in a position to finish a play rather than to make a play.

A player like Jason Kidd makes passes that both (1) create a scoring attempt [finish a play] (2) facilitate the offense, create ball movement, allows his teammates to make plays for themselves.

Rajon Rondo is more like a Jason Kidd than a LeBron James or a Chris Paul. He will create some baskets for Jermaine O'Neal with his playmaking and that is very important ... but he will also make passes that allow Jermaine O'Neals and the Paul Pierces to make plays for themselves (which in Jermaine's case is a very bad thing).

Likewise, the rest of the Celtics team prides itself on unselfish offense that creates a lot of ball movement. It's not an equal opportunity offense ... but it's closer to that than most other NBA teams. If gives multiple players to get a chance to get involved offensively.

This is not an ideal fit. This is a highly risky fit.