Shaq wants to be a Celtic

[MBunge]

In the playoffs that year, PJ was 26 of 56 from the field.  He had 0 baskets and 5 rebounds TOTAL in the Atlanta series.  He had 5 baskets and 19 boards TOTAL in the Cleveland series.

And in 18 regular season games for Boston, PJ averaged less than 3 rebounds a game made a grand total of 14 shots.  He made less than 1 basket a game.  Boston is definitely going to need more than that from their back up center next season.

As for Wallace, he shot less than 30% from 3 in the regular season AND in the Finals.

Sure, that's great. But the fact is that both of those guys were there and required a defender to step out with them on the perimeter.

This is one key point the Mike doesn't seem to get. Sheed and PJ Brown required their defenders to stay with them away from the basket, creating space for other guys to operate, Shaq does the opposite. This is a very important issue with Shaq, This, and the fact that team defense goes in the toilet when he;s out there because he can't rotate or cover pick and roles, and this celtics team is based primarily on the strength of it's team defense. These are the main reasons we gave the MLE to Jermaine Oneal and not Shaq, and why I would be glad to have Sheed come back instead of trading him for Shaq.

No, I get it.  What you don't seem to understand is that edit

And as for Shaq's defense, he did play about half the game for Cleveland, which was one of the best defensive teams in the league.  And considering that Boston didn't lose the Finals because they didn't play defense but because they couldn't score and couldn't rebound, bringing in a player who could do those two things might be worth it.

Mike

Please don't use swear faux swear words in all caps when responding to other posters /Fafnir

[Andy Jick]

I personally believe that putting Shaq next to KG makes KG a better player.  That alone is worth the signing...

[kozlodoev]

If spreading the [dang] court was the only thing that mattered, then Nash and the Suns would have won about 8 titles in a row.

Right, it's not. Defense matters as much as spreading the floor. Shaq, at this stage of his career, is a unique two in one -- he makes both spacing on offense and rotations on defense worse.

If you're going to disregard Shaq's superior scoring and superior rebounding and fixate on spreading the [dang] floor as the only thing that matters, it's a good thing you're not actually a coach in the NBA.

You bet I am going to disregard them. I'd rather have Pierce, Ray Allen, Garnett, and Rondo do the scoring. I couldn't give a quack if our fifth scoring option is Shaq or, indeed, Aaron Gray. And as far as fifth options are concerned, Jermaine O'Neal might have something to say, too.

What Shaq exposed is what everyone should have already known before giving Nash his two bogus MVPs.  The style of basketball that Nash has to play in order to be personally effective is not a style that's ever going to win a title.

In case you've missed it, the MVP is awarded for the regular season. Nash got 2 MVPs for being in charge of two of the best regular season teams.

I'd say quoting Shaq's stats is a pretty good argument because you haven't even come close to disputing it with anything less lame than "but, but, but he won't spread the floor!

I find it really curious that you are fixated on Shaq's stats, but bash Nash's Phoneix Suns, who were the ultimate stat-racking team. It seems that the "not a style that's ever going to win a title" only works when it supports you argument. So let me spell it out for you: I don't think 12 points a game are worth the impact that Shaq will have on the other aspects of Celtics team play, which includes both other players sitting and watching him do his thing on offense, and his poor ability to adjust on defense. I'm really sorry those things don't show up in a box score, but that's not really my problem.

As for Shaq's minutes, Jermaine O'Neal played 28.4 minutes a game last year for Miami.  Unless you think playing him a lot more than that is a great idea, there's an automatic 15 to 20 minutes a game for Shaq right there.  Maybe if you stopped and actually thought about this stuff for a second, you might not demonstrate such ignorance.

No matter how much you insult me, that's not going to change the fact that if Shaq plays 20 minutes per game, we're in trouble. And for the record, if we play the 3 men in our big men rotation reasonable minutes, there are exactly 15 minutes available for whoever the fourth center is.

Seriously, did Shaq sleep with your wife or run over your dog?

Is that the best you could come up with? It's not going to make Shaq rotate any faster on defense.

I don't want Shaq as a starter for 6 to 8 million a year, but you act like you'd rather have Rasho Nesterovic for the vet min than Shaq as a back up for 3 to 4 million

There are multiple guys I'd rather have at the veteran minimum instead of Shaq. Rasho Nesterovic may be one of them.

[moiso]

Who spread the floor when the Cs won the title in 2008?  PJ Brown?  I'd argue that Sheed didn't spread the floor that much as the season went on because he couldn't hit a three to save his life.

Yes, P.J. Brown did. He is actually able to hit a jump shot from outside 5 feet, unlike Shaq. Wallace shot 35% from three during the playoffs, and made teams pay for leaving him open.

Shaq didn't kill the Suns offense.  He just helped expose Steve Nash's limitations.

Like the limitation of being unable to win with a plodding 400 lbs. center with inflated ego and diminishing skills? Horrible. I would have been eager to see Shaq come to Boston and expose Rondo's limitations... if I weren't a Celtics fan.

And if Boston had had Shaq in game 7, they'd be raising another banner this fall cause there's NO WAY Boston gets manhandled on the boards with Shaq in the game.

If Boston had Shaq, they may not even have been in the finals.

If we had Shaq, the team probably implodes when we end the season with that tough run and Shaq starts running his mouth to point fingers.

Or maybe if Shaq was on the team he gets everybody to cut the crap and we don't have the chemistry problems that caused Boston to be a .500 team the last 2/3rds of the season.  As slowed down as he's gotten, Shaq also doesn't treat regular season games as an extended training camp the way Sheed did.

Mike

I didn't hear this until recently, but I just read somewhere that Shaq was a big problem in the locker room last year.  And it was pretty obvious in the series against the C's that the Cavs had some major chemistry issues.  I say if he wants to be a back up for the minimum, bring him on.  And if he insists on making the midlevel exception and starting, forget about him.

[Jon]

I also think people are really underestimating what Shaq could do here. 

Pair him with the starters and one of two things happens: teams play him like they played Perk and Shaq shoots 90% from the field OR teams stay home on him and everyone else gets better looks. 

Pair him with the bench and he essentially can be the offense.  Bring the ball down the court, get to Shaq down low, make the defense react (or not) and go from there.  He can do that for 15-20 mpg. 

And again, I keep saying it, people are acting like we have all these better options.  Things are drying up out there. 

[acieEarl]

Shaq just want a last paycheck. I don't even buy that he wants to only go to a contender. He'll take the highest offer.

[Asijs]

Shaq just want a last paycheck. I don't even buy that he wants to only go to a contender. He'll take the highest offer.

Really? From Fanhouse.com

"He only wants to go to a team with a chance to win it all,'' one source said. "That's a short list. Even for the money, he's not going to a non-contender."

[acieEarl]

Shaq just want a last paycheck. I don't even buy that he wants to only go to a contender. He'll take the highest offer.

Really? From Fanhouse.com

"He only wants to go to a team with a chance to win it all,'' one source said. "That's a short list. Even for the money, he's not going to a non-contender."

We'll have to wait and see. I still think he'll just try to get the biggest paycheck. I think a lot of the non-contending team don't even want to bother with him.

[Surferdad]

I think Shaq fits perfectly for this team AT THE RIGHT PRICE.  If we can get him for a cheap S&T or vet min, I think he is a great fit.  We were a good team in the paint last season, but not a great one.  From watching, the two things that stuck out to me were our inability to stop tall centers from shooting over the top of us, and being able to dump the ball inside and put "foul-trouble-pressure" on their D and get back-to-the-basket points.  I know Shaq has fallen off, and I'm not pretending we'll make him any younger, but he was putting that pressure on us for CLE last year, and coming off the bench for limited minutes might be exactly what he needs to be more than effective.  Our front court is made up of space-the-floor jump shooters and Perk.  It would be nice to have another guy shove people around and take up space.

AT THE RIGHT PRICE.

Sorry, but this make no sense.  What does price have to do with whether he fits?  Are you saying he's going to play the Celtics style of help-defense and also suddenly find a mid-range shot if he signs for the vet minimum?  Of course not.  Or are you saying that signing him for cheap means we can just use him selectively off the bench to push people around?  Well I've got news for you:  Shaq doesn't want to come off the bench nor sign for the vet min.  He wants $8mill per and he wants to start.  These are well-known facts coming from his mouth (or agent).  That's why there's no deal yet.

[Jon]

Shaq just want a last paycheck. I don't even buy that he wants to only go to a contender. He'll take the highest offer.

Really? From Fanhouse.com

"He only wants to go to a team with a chance to win it all,'' one source said. "That's a short list. Even for the money, he's not going to a non-contender."

We'll have to wait and see. I still think he'll just try to get the biggest paycheck. I think a lot of the non-contending team don't even want to bother with him.

I don't think that's it at all.  I think he wants to cement his legacy and get a 5th ring, preferably over Kobe. 

Remember, Shaq Made 36 million dollars last year.  15 million of those in endorsements.  I think he's going to be OK taking a paycut.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/specials/fortunate50-2010/index.html

[hpantazo]

In the playoffs that year, PJ was 26 of 56 from the field.  He had 0 baskets and 5 rebounds TOTAL in the Atlanta series.  He had 5 baskets and 19 boards TOTAL in the Cleveland series.

And in 18 regular season games for Boston, PJ averaged less than 3 rebounds a game made a grand total of 14 shots.  He made less than 1 basket a game.  Boston is definitely going to need more than that from their back up center next season.

As for Wallace, he shot less than 30% from 3 in the regular season AND in the Finals.

Sure, that's great. But the fact is that both of those guys were there and required a defender to step out with them on the perimeter.

This is one key point the Mike doesn't seem to get. Sheed and PJ Brown required their defenders to stay with them away from the basket, creating space for other guys to operate, Shaq does the opposite. This is a very important issue with Shaq, This, and the fact that team defense goes in the toilet when he;s out there because he can't rotate or cover pick and roles, and this celtics team is based primarily on the strength of it's team defense. These are the main reasons we gave the MLE to Jermaine Oneal and not Shaq, and why I would be glad to have Sheed come back instead of trading him for Shaq.

No, I get it.  What you don't seem to understand is that edit

And as for Shaq's defense, he did play about half the game for Cleveland, which was one of the best defensive teams in the league.  And considering that Boston didn't lose the Finals because they didn't play defense but because they couldn't score and couldn't rebound, bringing in a player who could do those two things might be worth it.

Mike

Please don't use swear faux swear words in all caps when responding to other posters /Fafnir

No, I really don't think you get it,  but whatever, it's clear that you have given up on making a logical argument and have resorted to bashing the people who made a counter argument to your posts.

[toinewalka]

Perkins doesn't have a mid-range shot at all and KILLS our offense, but we keep him in their because of his skill and size on defense.  Shaq can keep people away from the basket on the D end and make larger centers work, and if he's playing against backup centers, he will be able to give us back-to-the-basket points in the paint which no one else on our roster can do (not counting 17 foot fade-aways).  I think in limited minutes Shaq could be a nice piece to the puzzle we were missing last year.

In terms of price, things have been thrown around about how he wants a larger deal through a S&T.  I don't think paying him much more than a couple million makes sense for this team.

[guava_wrench]

Perkins doesn't have a mid-range shot at all and KILLS our offense, but we keep him in their because of his skill and size on defense.  Shaq can keep people away from the basket on the D end and make larger centers work, and if he's playing against backup centers, he will be able to give us back-to-the-basket points in the paint which no one else on our roster can do (not counting 17 foot fade-aways).  I think in limited minutes Shaq could be a nice piece to the puzzle we were missing last year.

In terms of price, things have been thrown around about how he wants a larger deal through a S&T.  I don't think paying him much more than a couple million makes sense for this team.

While I am against getting Shaq because he wants too much and will most likely be disruptive, I do not agree with the arguments against Shaq due to his lack of a jumper. Who cares if he doesn't shoot from outside. He is a major force in the post. Rondo can still penetrate and throw a lob to Shaq, just like Nelson does to Howard, who also has no perimeter game. As you said, Perk's lack of a midrange shot kills our offense, but that is because he has a pretty weak post game.

People get carried away with wanting a big to space things. Why do we need a big who shoots better from outside than our PG? A big who can score inside is even better.

The problem is that Shaq expects teams to change to fit him. He gets offended when not given a prominent enough role, and when he gets offended, he makes provocative statements to the press.

I would love Shaq on the team if not for the personality and the salary demands. I would also love AI if not for the same reasons. But these people are who they are, and when their contributions are diminished, their character flaws become more trouble than they are worth.

This is the same guy who reacted to criticism from Bill Walton by essentially saying "who the heck is he?". It takes a special ego to consider Bill Walton a scrub.

[thirstyboots18]

If it is true that Shaq said he won't come off the bench, I have completely changed my mind about him.  I want a player who will do anything Doc call for to win a game.  I do not want a player, any player, who dictates play, who says when and if he will play.  I am not sure Shaq did say that, but if he did, count me out.  If that really is the case I do not support bringing Shaq to Boston at any price!  That is exactly the kind of attitude that kills UBUNTU.

[Jon]

If it is true that Shaq said he won't come off the bench, I have completely changed my mind about him.  I want a player who will do anything Doc call for to win a game.  I do not want a player, any player, who dictates play, who says when and if he will play.  I am not sure Shaq did say that, but if he did, count me out.  If that really is the case I do not support bringing Shaq to Boston at any price!  That is exactly the kind of attitude that kills UBUNTU.

Let's also keep in mind that this is Shaq, who I would say is the 4th best center of all time.  He's certainly a top 25 player and arguably even a top 10 player. 

So this isn't like it's even McGrady or Iverson making demands. 

I also don't think starting is the big deal that many think it is.  Jermaine O'Neal, given Shaq's standing in league history, may be OK in deferring to Shaq.  And after the first 5 minutes of the game, who is playing with who is simply based on Doc's rotations. 

I'd take Shaq starting for us and Jermaine off the bench over Jermaine starting for us and some crap minimum guy off the bench.