Shaq wants to be a Celtic

[Spilling Green Dye]

Shaq draws a lot of fouls and gets the opposing team into the penalty early, which alone should considerably help our offensive efficiency.

Problem is that there is going to be no need to foul him near the basket soon enough since he can't finish consistently anymore.

He shot 56 percent last season and 51 percent in the playoffs. Is that not consistent enough?

In comparison over the last 3 years combined Perkins has shot 59.6% from the field. Just throwing that out there

How often did Perkins, 3 feet from the hoop, have to take an unnecessary dribble to gather himself.. only to have it stolen or forced into some sort of turnover?  Shaq finishes next to the hoop, plain and simple.  He doesn't have the lift like he used to, but I watched him bull over Perkins & Davis next to the hoop with limited touches.

With the amount of times the Celtics have gotten the ball to Perkins and other bigs 3ft from the hoop, Shaq would fit in well and succeed.

  It's an interesting question. Perkins turns the ball over at a higher rate than Shaq, but he also hits a higher percentage of his shots and his free throws. Perk uses about 10.4 possessions a game to get 10.1 points. Shaq uses about 12.6 possessions a game to get 12.0 points. In terms of efficiency, slight advantage to Perk. Also, PP/RA/KG all score more points per possession than Shaq. If Shaq's extra 2 possessions come from Rondo it's ok but if they come from PP or RA or KG then the team becomes even less efficient.

  Also, Shaq gets fouled on about 20% of his shots and Perk gets fouled on about 19% of his so Shaq isn't going to draw many more fouls than Perk, maybe 1 more foul every other game or so.

Most of Shaq's shots were ones he created on his own, whereas Perkins is the beneficiary of better ball movement and PG penetration.  I love Perk to death, and think he's underrated in the league, but this past year he looked like his offense regressed.  Perk had trouble quickly scoring when the ball was delivered to him 3ft from the hoop.  I think Shaq is better in this regard, and would do well in our half-court minded offense. 

Is there an expected timeframe on any Shaq signing in the league?  I'm hoping the Celtics get him sooner rather than later.

[hwangjini_1]

Good pointed above, especially by sgd on Shaquille.

One other point that is important, perhaps, is that how often did teams feel a need to double team either perk or Shaquille? Any difference there?

Or, did teams regularly have to pay attention to Shaquille when they were on defense? I doubt as much attention was given to perk in this area.

My point is that Shaquille may distract opposing defenses more even if the stats between perk and Shaquille are similar. That means less attention to the other celtics, and, if teams collapse on Shaquille he is better able to score through such defense or pass it out to a team mate.

And given that perk is out most of next year, I don't see this debate being "either or".
 
No matter how you stack it up, having oneil on the celtics is a plus.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Another thing I've been thinking of is that if there is any position to stock up on it is Center. 

Our two big threats in the East are the Heat & Magic.  Having a lot of bigs, especially ones who can finish around the hoop, is one of the few ways we can exploit Miami's lack of size.  It is also the best way to counter the Magic, and as we all know it would have been great against the Lakers.

[LooseCannon]

If Perk's injury causes him to lose a step, will he be like a smaller Shaq with worse offense?

[Roy Hobbs]

Another thing I've been thinking of is that if there is any position to stock up on it is Center. 

Our two big threats in the East are the Heat & Magic.  Having a lot of bigs, especially ones who can finish around the hoop, is one of the few ways we can exploit Miami's lack of size.  It is also the best way to counter the Magic, and as we all know it would have been great against the Lakers.

That's true.  Miami's biggest weakness is their interior defense, and Orlando's biggest strength is the center position.  Right now, we don't have anybody who exploits Miami's disadvantage in the post, and assuming that Perk is, at best, going to be rusty come playoff time, we don't have anybody who can necessarily defend Dwight one-on-one.

Adding Shaq helps with both of these issues.

[kozlodoev]

I don't love the Perk bashing, but Shaq doesn't "just miss" all that often.  In 2009 he led the NBA in FG%, and last season he was at 56.6%.  That's a pretty impressive percentage for a player that creates his own offense (unlike Perk), and placed him in the top ten in the NBA.

This is simply not true, at least not at this stage of Shaq's career. 56% of his shots were assisted (compared to 60% for Perkins).

Shaq just isn't "it" anymore, and all sort of expanded metrics show that the Cavs were better with him off the court.

[BballTim]

Shaq draws a lot of fouls and gets the opposing team into the penalty early, which alone should considerably help our offensive efficiency.

Problem is that there is going to be no need to foul him near the basket soon enough since he can't finish consistently anymore.

He shot 56 percent last season and 51 percent in the playoffs. Is that not consistent enough?

In comparison over the last 3 years combined Perkins has shot 59.6% from the field. Just throwing that out there

How often did Perkins, 3 feet from the hoop, have to take an unnecessary dribble to gather himself.. only to have it stolen or forced into some sort of turnover?  Shaq finishes next to the hoop, plain and simple.  He doesn't have the lift like he used to, but I watched him bull over Perkins & Davis next to the hoop with limited touches.

With the amount of times the Celtics have gotten the ball to Perkins and other bigs 3ft from the hoop, Shaq would fit in well and succeed.

  It's an interesting question. Perkins turns the ball over at a higher rate than Shaq, but he also hits a higher percentage of his shots and his free throws. Perk uses about 10.4 possessions a game to get 10.1 points. Shaq uses about 12.6 possessions a game to get 12.0 points. In terms of efficiency, slight advantage to Perk. Also, PP/RA/KG all score more points per possession than Shaq. If Shaq's extra 2 possessions come from Rondo it's ok but if they come from PP or RA or KG then the team becomes even less efficient.

  Also, Shaq gets fouled on about 20% of his shots and Perk gets fouled on about 19% of his so Shaq isn't going to draw many more fouls than Perk, maybe 1 more foul every other game or so.

Most of Shaq's shots were ones he created on his own, whereas Perkins is the beneficiary of better ball movement and PG penetration.  I love Perk to death, and think he's underrated in the league, but this past year he looked like his offense regressed.  Perk had trouble quickly scoring when the ball was delivered to him 3ft from the hoop.  I think Shaq is better in this regard, and would do well in our half-court minded offense.  

Is there an expected timeframe on any Shaq signing in the league?  I'm hoping the Celtics get him sooner rather than later.

  Perk's offense was looking pretty good until February or so, when he started to have (I believe) knee issues. And Shaq may create a few more of his shots but I doubt he's the only guy playing with LeBron who never gets wide open shots. Also, you have to consider whether his drop in efficiency was because of his age and he's not going to get better.

  I'm not opposed to getting Shaq, I just didn't care for all the Perk bashing in a thread about getting someone who's less efficient on offense onto the team.

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't love the Perk bashing, but Shaq doesn't "just miss" all that often.  In 2009 he led the NBA in FG%, and last season he was at 56.6%.  That's a pretty impressive percentage for a player that creates his own offense (unlike Perk), and placed him in the top ten in the NBA.

This is simply not true, at least not at this stage of Shaq's career. 56% of his shots were assisted (compared to 60% for Perkins).

Shaq just isn't "it" anymore, and all sort of expanded metrics show that the Cavs were better with him off the court.

Per 36 minutes, Shaq made 7.6 FG and 3.3 FT.

Even taking 44% of those totals, Shaq created 3.34 FG and 1.45 FT on his own.  That's 8.13 points per 36 minutes that Shaq is creating by himself, without any sort of assist.  That's only 5 points per 36 minutes less than Perk is scoring, total.

That's to say nothing of the times when Shaq gets good position, gets fed the ball, and immediately turns and scores, alley-oops he gets due to his size, etc., etc.  Further, Shaq is a quality passer as a big man, and he tends to get opponents into foul trouble.

[kozlodoev]

I don't love the Perk bashing, but Shaq doesn't "just miss" all that often.  In 2009 he led the NBA in FG%, and last season he was at 56.6%.  That's a pretty impressive percentage for a player that creates his own offense (unlike Perk), and placed him in the top ten in the NBA.

This is simply not true, at least not at this stage of Shaq's career. 56% of his shots were assisted (compared to 60% for Perkins).

Shaq just isn't "it" anymore, and all sort of expanded metrics show that the Cavs were better with him off the court.

Per 36 minutes, Shaq made 7.6 FG and 3.3 FT.

Even taking 44% of those totals, Shaq created 3.34 FG and 1.45 FT on his own.  That's 8.13 points per 36 minutes that Shaq is creating by himself, without any sort of assist.  That's only 5 points per 36 minutes less than Perk is scoring, total.

That's to say nothing of the times when Shaq gets good position, gets fed the ball, and immediately turns and scores, alley-oops he gets due to his size, etc., etc.  Further, Shaq is a quality passer as a big man, and he tends to get opponents into foul trouble.

There is absolutely no telling whether he created free throws by himself. Scored free throws do not create assists in the box score, and I will be surprised if 82games.com counts them in the assisted shots percentage.

As for unassisted shots per 36 minutes, Perk's number is 2.1 (to go with 2.8 FTs, assisted or not), so while Shaq may be better, the difference is just 1 point per 36 minutes (8.13 pts vs 7 pts).

Coupled with the fact that the Cavs were +5.8 per 100 possessions offensively with Shaq off the court, I struggle to find any supporting evidence that his offensive "presence" is so important.

[nickagneta]

I don't love the Perk bashing, but Shaq doesn't "just miss" all that often.  In 2009 he led the NBA in FG%, and last season he was at 56.6%.  That's a pretty impressive percentage for a player that creates his own offense (unlike Perk), and placed him in the top ten in the NBA.

This is simply not true, at least not at this stage of Shaq's career. 56% of his shots were assisted (compared to 60% for Perkins).

Shaq just isn't "it" anymore, and all sort of expanded metrics show that the Cavs were better with him off the court.

Per 36 minutes, Shaq made 7.6 FG and 3.3 FT.

Even taking 44% of those totals, Shaq created 3.34 FG and 1.45 FT on his own.  That's 8.13 points per 36 minutes that Shaq is creating by himself, without any sort of assist.  That's only 5 points per 36 minutes less than Perk is scoring, total.

That's to say nothing of the times when Shaq gets good position, gets fed the ball, and immediately turns and scores, alley-oops he gets due to his size, etc., etc.  Further, Shaq is a quality passer as a big man, and he tends to get opponents into foul trouble.

Kind of misleading stats don't you think Roy? Shaq only scored 18.5 PP36 and Perk had 13.2 PP36. Cut Shaq's output in half to accommodate for his own created offense and yes he's scored only 5 points less than Perk scored total but he's only created on his own 3 points more per 36 minutes than Perk creates on his own. Or 1 whole basket and 1 whole FT. And in order to do this he had to have the ball in his hands 25% of his teams plays compared to 17% of the time Perk had to touch the ball during his team's plays.

So in 36 minutes of play for Shaq to create one more basket on his own and one more FT on his own more than Perk creates on his own in the same amount of time Shaq has to touch the ball almost 50% more than Perk.

These guys, at this stage of their careers, when they are healthy, are pretty close in overall ability. Shaq is better than Perk, though marginally, offensively and Perk is better than Shaq defensively.

I said it before I'll say it again, Shaq at the minimum is a good thing. Shaq at multi-millions for more than one year and using Rasheed's contract to get him is not a good thing.

[Birdbrain]

Another thing I've been thinking of is that if there is any position to stock up on it is Center. 

Our two big threats in the East are the Heat & Magic.  Having a lot of bigs, especially ones who can finish around the hoop, is one of the few ways we can exploit Miami's lack of size.  It is also the best way to counter the Magic, and as we all know it would have been great against the Lakers.

That's true.  Miami's biggest weakness is their interior defense, and Orlando's biggest strength is the center position.  Right now, we don't have anybody who exploits Miami's disadvantage in the post, and assuming that Perk is, at best, going to be rusty come playoff time, we don't have anybody who can necessarily defend Dwight one-on-one.

Adding Shaq helps with both of these issues.

Well we do have JO who who's better than all of Miami's big guys combined but, I do agree with the overall premise that adding to our depth in interior will help with the teams with a legitimate shot of contending.

Perk will provide depth if he comes back. 

[Roy Hobbs]

Another thing I've been thinking of is that if there is any position to stock up on it is Center. 

Our two big threats in the East are the Heat & Magic.  Having a lot of bigs, especially ones who can finish around the hoop, is one of the few ways we can exploit Miami's lack of size.  It is also the best way to counter the Magic, and as we all know it would have been great against the Lakers.

That's true.  Miami's biggest weakness is their interior defense, and Orlando's biggest strength is the center position.  Right now, we don't have anybody who exploits Miami's disadvantage in the post, and assuming that Perk is, at best, going to be rusty come playoff time, we don't have anybody who can necessarily defend Dwight one-on-one.

Adding Shaq helps with both of these issues.

Well we do have JO who who's better than all of Miami's big guys combined but, I do agree with the overall premise that adding to our depth in interior will help with the teams with a legitimate shot of contending.

Perk will provide depth if he comes back. 

I like the J.O. signing, but he's more of a mid-range player.  To really exploit Miami, I'd love to see us pound the ball in the post, and that's not necessarily J.O.'s (or KG's) preferred style.

[Mike-Dub]

Another thing I've been thinking of is that if there is any position to stock up on it is Center. 

Our two big threats in the East are the Heat & Magic.  Having a lot of bigs, especially ones who can finish around the hoop, is one of the few ways we can exploit Miami's lack of size.  It is also the best way to counter the Magic, and as we all know it would have been great against the Lakers.

That's true.  Miami's biggest weakness is their interior defense, and Orlando's biggest strength is the center position.  Right now, we don't have anybody who exploits Miami's disadvantage in the post, and assuming that Perk is, at best, going to be rusty come playoff time, we don't have anybody who can necessarily defend Dwight one-on-one.

Adding Shaq helps with both of these issues.

Well we do have JO who who's better than all of Miami's big guys combined.

Bosh may be getting way way to overhyped right now, but JO is nowhere near better than him.

[Birdbrain]

I don't love the Perk bashing, but Shaq doesn't "just miss" all that often.  In 2009 he led the NBA in FG%, and last season he was at 56.6%.  That's a pretty impressive percentage for a player that creates his own offense (unlike Perk), and placed him in the top ten in the NBA.

This is simply not true, at least not at this stage of Shaq's career. 56% of his shots were assisted (compared to 60% for Perkins).

Shaq just isn't "it" anymore, and all sort of expanded metrics show that the Cavs were better with him off the court.

Yes because on the Cavs he was needed to do more than he will on the C's.  He's not going to start in Boston.  He'll be there to score a few baskets grab a few rebounds and provide depth.  The only problem is will he willing to accept that.  I have my concerns but, that is probably the sticking point between signing with Boston.  JO is going to start and if healthy he will continue to start with both Perkins and Shaq backing him up... IMHumbleO

[Birdbrain]

Another thing I've been thinking of is that if there is any position to stock up on it is Center. 

Our two big threats in the East are the Heat & Magic.  Having a lot of bigs, especially ones who can finish around the hoop, is one of the few ways we can exploit Miami's lack of size.  It is also the best way to counter the Magic, and as we all know it would have been great against the Lakers.

That's true.  Miami's biggest weakness is their interior defense, and Orlando's biggest strength is the center position.  Right now, we don't have anybody who exploits Miami's disadvantage in the post, and assuming that Perk is, at best, going to be rusty come playoff time, we don't have anybody who can necessarily defend Dwight one-on-one.

Adding Shaq helps with both of these issues.

Well we do have JO who who's better than all of Miami's big guys combined but, I do agree with the overall premise that adding to our depth in interior will help with the teams with a legitimate shot of contending.

Perk will provide depth if he comes back. 

I like the J.O. signing, but he's more of a mid-range player.  To really exploit Miami, I'd love to see us pound the ball in the post, and that's not necessarily J.O.'s (or KG's) preferred style.

I think you'll see a ton of open dunks for JO via KG.  No more wind ups from our Center.  Let's hope for the best.