Tired of Jordan's Legacy, the Bulls were the best defensive team of the 90s.

[Celtics4ever]

Moot issue since he played for the rockets though, no?

[GreenFaith1819]

The key here is which combination of players, from the Bulls, could stopped Olajuwon in the post or even slightly lower his shooting percentage?

I'd say no one.

Well - I wouldn't say no one...Dennis Rodman was skilled and talented enough defensively to slow Hakeem down a tad.

[Celtics17]

I think that Wilt would probably compare favorably to Hakeem as far as a defensive center goes. I am quite certain that if blocked shots were kept he would have greatly surpassed Hakeem. As far as straight up man to man D I dont know though.

[guava_wrench]

If Michael Jordan had been born with flipper hands, he would have won ZERO titles - FACT. 

And even if he somehow pulled it off, you'd never see him wearing the ring around.

What if his hands were merely webbed?

TP.

[TitleMaster]

I think that Wilt would probably compare favorably to Hakeem as far as a defensive center goes

Wilt is great up until crunch time. That's when he's periodically removed from the game due to either his poor free throwing or him not wanting to draw that 5th or 6th foul. Thus, if he's opposing Hakeem, one-on-one, he'd probably get several blocks against the Dream Shake and make Hakeem pass out of the paint, more often than not.

In contrast, there's no other big guy I'd want in the final few minutes of a game for either defense (remember the potential game winning block on Starks) or a tip-in (for Drexler in Game 1 of '95 finals).

Dennis Rodman was skilled and talented enough defensively to slow Hakeem down a tad

Rodman would essentially be the Bull's Anthony Mason, providing key help defense on the big fellow. The difference, however, is that the primary opposing center is Luc Longley... talk about a huge mismatch. Mason worked with Ewing, So in effect, they'd need to have a '92 version of Cartwright, alongside Rodman, to make that defense pay off.

[Witch-King]

Wow - I think that with Hakeem in the same conference as Michael, he would've definitely had a HUGE roadblock in your scenario, Titlemaster.

^My point exactly. Hakeem didn't even make it out of the Western Conference during the years that Michael Jordan was in the Finals. If he was in the East, he might have pulled a LeBron James if teams like the late 80's Celtics and the 90's Bulls were giving him trouble in the post-season.

Hakeem faced the Celtics in the Finals once with the Rockets and lost; I could see Hakeem wanting to team up with either two of the teams if the Knicks couldn't make it to the Finals. However, as you have stated, Hakeem Olajuwon is the best defensive center in the history of basketball so it isn't like it would be impossible to make it out of the east (both Dwayne Wade and LeBron James have done so before they teamed-up).

Things like that will be what makes next year's season so much more fun to watch; with Stoudamire in the East, regardless of the fact that Yao is coming back from his injury there may be a huge power-shift back to the Eastern Conference, especially if we can land Shaquille O'Neal.

Still wondering if A.I. will be playing for the 76ers next season, or wherever. Either way, the East might end up becoming the 'Rajon Rondo Show' v.s. the Miami 'Vice' (as opposed to the Beantown Vice  ).

The Western Conference may just be Melo vs Kobe (again). Nuggets had some great games against the Lakers last season.

[GreenEnvy]

Hakeem was the second best player of the early-mid 90's, so with a better supporting cast, it's fathomable that beating Jordan and the Bulls was possible.

But, Ewing was a [dang] good player then. He was no Olajuwon, but he was no slouch either.

Jordan still wins 4-5 of those 6 IMO, and maybe he doesn't retire in the Twilight Zone, so out of those two years ('94-95) he wins 1-2 more.

[TitleMaster]

Folks, in the real world, most Knicks-Bulls series went the full 7 games. In '94, when Jordan was out, a fathom call against Pippen pushed the series the full route. Otherwise, Chicago would have won it in 6, without Michael Jordan. In contrast, whenever Olajuwon was not on the Rockets, the team played miserably. Just watch any of their regular season games, during either Ramadan or when Hakeem was injured.

Here's my point, a great defensive team wins series. Now, here's the added caveat ... provided that that great defensive team has an alpha male franchise player scorer on board.

Where I wholeheartedly disagree with many is that Patrick Ewing was this alpha male center. Instead, he was a Cartwright plus but unlike Bill, Ewing was asked to lead the Knicks in all departments. And realize, like Cartwright in earlier times, he put up good stats for the Knicks but when push came to shove, he'd miss layups, free throws, and more or less disappear from the game, either offensively or defensively. That's not an alpha male franchise player.

Now, given the Knick's tough defensive schemes, if you replace Ewing w/ Olajuwon, you get that alpha male scorer and one, who's more or less, unstoppable. Thus, it would be easy for Riley to draw up plays where Hakeem, more of less, explodes for numerous scoring stretches, without him having to defend for every possession, which he was indirectly expected to do for Houston. The 90s Knicks would have the perfect locale for a Hakeem era.

And no, I disagree, Hakeem was the best player of the 90s, not the mid-90s, when Jordan was on vacation. Jordan was the best swingman of his era and had the luck of the 'Jordan Rules', by the refs, and was on the right defensive team for his circumstances.

And I think Olajuwon even held his ground against McHale, Parish, and Walton pretty well during the '86 finals. But C'mon, was it expected that one Hakeem, 3 role players, and one choked Sampson was gonna beat the '86 Celtics? I think not.

[GreenFaith1819]

Good Points, TM.

You further explained your mindset for Hakeem in NY..NY, back in the 90's, was known as a tough Defensive-minded team. Patrick was a stopper, but they also had Oakley and tough defensive guards as well.

HOU, being very similar to NY, had mainly the Dream.

Hakeem in NY would've been a big thorn in Michael and Scottie's sides. No way in the world that Michael would've had many poster opportunies with Hakeem. Patrick was a Huge traditional center, but Hakeem was on another dimension. He was just too agile.

IMO, Hakeem stole some DNA from Bill Russell. Bill Russell was a man before his time when he played, and oftentimes Hakeem seemed the same.

I would've loved to see Ralph Sampson stay healthy - I loved his game, too. Slightly off-topic, but I loved the way that he and Hakeem man-handled LA's frontline in that 86 series.

To Kareem's credit, though, that man put up a valiant fight.

[TitleMaster]

Hakeem in NY would've been a big thorn in Michael and Scottie's sides. No way in the world that Michael would've had many poster opportunies with Hakeem

I guess the key here is to turn the Bulls into a jump shooting team but realize, Michael has the refs on his side, so I think that Riley would have had Mason and Oakley pick up more of the driving lane fouls than Olajuwon. Thus, Jordan still gets his mandatory 30 ppg but the Bulls, as a whole, can't outscore the Knicks since Pippen/Grant/Cartwright will be a lot more muted. In my Twilight Zone world, MJ would be thought of more as a Dwayne Wade but with teammates who can't score.

IMO, Hakeem stole some DNA from Bill Russell. Bill Russell was a man before his time when he played, and oftentimes Hakeem seemed the same.

It sure seems like it. What's also intriguing about Russell is that he seems to save his offensive moves for the end of the games. He apparently focuses so much on defense, that he delegates all scoring responsibilities to others until crunch time where he apparently does it all.

 

I would've loved to see Ralph Sampson stay healthy - I loved his game, too. Slightly off-topic, but I loved the way that he and Hakeem man-handled LA's frontline in that 86 series.

Yes, that was Sampson's day in the sun. LA really didn't prepare for the onslaught that it was.

It's too bad that he's remembered as the giant who punched a 6'3" guard in the finals. It's kinda a sad legacy.

[sk7326]

the best compliment you can give Hakeem is - he was the guy picked ahead of Jordan that nobody makes fun of

[GreenFaith1819]

Hakeem in NY would've been a big thorn in Michael and Scottie's sides. No way in the world that Michael would've had many poster opportunies with Hakeem

I guess the key here is to turn the Bulls into a jump shooting team but realize, Michael has the refs on his side, so I think that Riley would have had Mason and Oakley pick up more of the driving lane fouls than Olajuwon. Thus, Jordan still gets his mandatory 30 ppg but the Bulls, as a whole, can't outscore the Knicks since Pippen/Grant/Cartwright will be a lot more muted. In my Twilight Zone world, MJ would be thought of more as a Dwayne Wade but with teammates who can't score.

IMO, Hakeem stole some DNA from Bill Russell. Bill Russell was a man before his time when he played, and oftentimes Hakeem seemed the same.

It sure seems like it. What's also intriguing about Russell is that he seems to save his offensive moves for the end of the games. He apparently focuses so much on defense, that he delegates all scoring responsibilities to others until crunch time where he apparently does it all.

 

I would've loved to see Ralph Sampson stay healthy - I loved his game, too. Slightly off-topic, but I loved the way that he and Hakeem man-handled LA's frontline in that 86 series.

Yes, that was Sampson's day in the sun. LA really didn't prepare for the onslaught that it was.

It's too bad that he's remembered as the giant who punched a 6'3" guard in the finals. It's kinda a sad legacy.

Great point, about the fight. That was sad - swinging at Jerry like that. I think that was part of his frustration boiling over. He and Hakeem were facing a Celtics Team that were not going to let anyone bully or beat them.

They were able to overcome Kareem, but Boston? Chief, Larry, McHale in his prime, and Bill Walton playing miraculously?

I honestly don't think the Laker teams with Shaq and Kobe in their primes were beating that 86 Celtics Team.

[sk7326]

Sampson punching Sichting is more a Boston and Johnny Most memory than anything. 

Sampson's legacy is as one of the 4 or 5 best college basketball players ever ... and a guy totally snakebitten by injuries at the NBA level - the Twin Towers were very much a "what could have been" type of case

Hakeem on the Knicks would have been very interesting ... Ewing was a great defender, but Hakeem was better.  Moreover Hakeem could score in the block with a reliability that Ewing could not get to.  The pick and roll teams were dead against the Bulls D because their guards were so big - they could switch anything and not be bothered.  But when a team could park a big and run offense through them (Barkley in 1993, the Jazz in 1998 when they went away from the pick and roll - which they did not do enough), they were vulnerable.

That said, the Knicks did not have the sheer volume of 3 point shooting the two Rockets champions did, and that would still hurt them against the Bulls.

[Greenbean]

Shaq on the 2010 Celtics would have beaten the 2010 lakers.

[Who]

I'd still expect the Bulls to beat the Knicks.

Not enough firepower alongside Hakeem Olajuwon.