Barnes to Toronto dead. S&T option (link)

[SCBirdman]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-barnescontract071910

Looks like Barnes is still available, but looking for more money than we can offer.

[Roy Hobbs]

Barnes is not worth anywhere close to $4.5 million per season.

[CelticsWhat35]

A source blamed the snag on a “miscalculation” in negotiations.

$9 million for Matt Barnes?  My guess is that miscalculation was a decimal place.

[wdleehi]

"bigger offers elsewhere"



That's not boston.

[housecall]

Sounds like Barnes is a legend in his own mind...thinks he's worth more than what he really is.

[the_Bird]

You know, you look at some of the contracts that have been signed this offseason....

Yeah, no thanks to Barnes at $4.5M per.  Not sure he's worth more than the vet min.  Seems like an LLE-level guy to me.

Doesn't he pretty much epitomize what a "replacement level" player is?  Doesn't really do much of anything better than average, MAYBE shoot the 3 ball at a slightly higher clip than most but he's not exactly making opposing fans hold their breath when he jacks one up.  His D is overrated. 

[nickagneta]

He's probably worth in and around the same money that Tony Allen got, somewhere around $3 million a year. The problem here is once teams start handing out stupid contracts to back up role players, the market is set.

Once Chris Duhon and Steve Blake got $4 million a year very early in free agency, the market was set and Nate Robinson, Kyle Lowry and Luke Ridnour were all going to get at least that amount. Then Milwaukee started handing out absolutely stupid contracts for Drew Gooden and John Salmons and the market was set for guys like Amir Johnson, Darko Milicic, Jermaine O'Neal, Hakim Warrick, Travis Outlaw and guys of that ilk in the 3 and 4 spots.

Then Memphis signed the defensive SG Tony Allen for $3 million a year and the market is now set for guys like Raja Bell, Matt Barnes and others.

Personally, I think where the NFL does things right and a lot of the rest of the sporting world screws up is that they pay the important players big bucks and keep the salaries elsewhere for complimentary players very low. The NBA should follow that lead. Yes, guys like LeBron, Wade, Boozer, Bosh, Stoudemire, and such should get big bucks. But there is no way that many of these complimentary players are worth anywhere near the money they get thrown at them and that is why the lockout will be happening. Not because of the stars getting paid but because of the stupid money that players like Gooden, Tony Allen, Darko Milicic, Kyle Lowry and others are making.

[the_Bird]

Personally, I think where the NFL does things right and a lot of the rest of the sporting world screws up is that they pay the important players big bucks and keep the salaries elsewhere for complimentary players very low. The NBA should follow that lead. Yes, guys like LeBron, Wade, Boozer, Bosh, Stoudemire, and such should get big bucks. But there is no way that many of these complimentary players are worth anywhere near the money they get thrown at them and that is why the lockout will be happening. Not because of the stars getting paid but because of the stupid money that players like Gooden, Tony Allen, Darko Milicic, Kyle Lowry and others are making.

I should write up again my proposal for "fixing" the NBA system.

Thing is, watching dumb signing after dumb signing this season...  I don't have any sympathy for the owners.  Don't claim $400M losses and then throw $35M at Travis Outlaw.  Guys who are vet-min players should get paid as vet-min players.

Don't cry poverty, then give a guy like Matt Barnes $10M when you could get 85% of his production from a decent D-League callup.

Hard cap solves a lot of problems.  There are too many loopholes to get teams' total salaries above the cap level, making the cap almost meaningless.

[Greenbean]

He's probably worth in and around the same money that Tony Allen got, somewhere around $3 million a year. The problem here is once teams start handing out stupid contracts to back up role players, the market is set.

Once Chris Duhon and Steve Blake got $4 million a year very early in free agency, the market was set and Nate Robinson, Kyle Lowry and Luke Ridnour were all going to get at least that amount. Then Milwaukee started handing out absolutely stupid contracts for Drew Gooden and John Salmons and the market was set for guys like Amir Johnson, Darko Milicic, Jermaine O'Neal, Hakim Warrick, Travis Outlaw and guys of that ilk in the 3 and 4 spots.

Then Memphis signed the defensive SG Tony Allen for $3 million a year and the market is now set for guys like Raja Bell, Matt Barnes and others.

Personally, I think where the NFL does things right and a lot of the rest of the sporting world screws up is that they pay the important players big bucks and keep the salaries elsewhere for complimentary players very low. The NBA should follow that lead. Yes, guys like LeBron, Wade, Boozer, Bosh, Stoudemire, and such should get big bucks. But there is no way that many of these complimentary players are worth anywhere near the money they get thrown at them and that is why the lockout will be happening. Not because of the stars getting paid but because of the stupid money that players like Gooden, Tony Allen, Darko Milicic, Kyle Lowry and others are making.

Very good points Nick.

Isn't it kind of ironic too?

Football, a sport where your playing days are rediculously limited, offers the least amount of guaranteed money out of the 3 big sports. If I am a complimentary player in the NFL making short money, I am in grad school planning for a career after the NFL. You really have to plan life like there is no tomorrow in the NFL. Making an NFL roster means nothing really. There are too many guys on each team.

What is really screwed up about the NFL though is that high draft pick rookies, who have never proven a thing, get gobs of guaranteed money. Makes no sense. Jamarcus Russel is rich...and out of the league. Meanwhile a guy drafted late works his butt off and becomes a star has to wait for his payday hoping every game that he doesnt blow his knee out.

The owners are definitely running that league.

[MBunge]

"bigger offers elsewhere"



That's not boston.

Probably not, but I believe that Toronto has used up their MLE already.  That means they have to work a sign-n-trade in order to pay Barnes more than a couple million a year.  I would think some other team would offer more than what Boston could swing involving a sign-n-trade for TA with Memphis, but you never know.

Mike

[Chris]

Barnes is not worth anywhere close to $4.5 million per season.

Yeah, and its really depressing to think that the reality for mediocre teams (particularly in cold weather cities).  This is why Danny rarely used the MLE prior to the KG years, and it is where we could be in a couple years again. 

Teams who are not either legit contenders, or in a place where everyone want to win generally need to decide between overpaying incredibly mediocre players often double what they are worth, or just not using the MLE (or cap space) at all.  I really am not looking forward to being back in that position.

[MBunge]

Barnes is not worth anywhere close to $4.5 million per season.

I'd say Barnes would be worth it to Boston for two years.  He's a legitimate replacement for TA, which Ainge MUST get, and it's a two year deal that expires with KG, Ray and Nate.  The problem is I don't think you can use Sheed's deal for a player like Barnes and then rely on a vet min guy to back up JO'Neal for most of the season.  Barnes is not anywhere close to Josh Howard.

Mike

[KCattheStripe]

Barnes is not worth anywhere close to $4.5 million per season.

I'd say Barnes would be worth it to Boston for two years.  He's a legitimate replacement for TA, which Ainge MUST get, and it's a two year deal that expires with KG, Ray and Nate.  The problem is I don't think you can use Sheed's deal for a player like Barnes and then rely on a vet min guy to back up JO'Neal for most of the season.  Barnes is not anywhere close to Josh Howard.

Mike

For one thing, he likes the National Anthem. 

[More Banners]

Barnes is not worth anywhere close to $4.5 million per season.

Yeah, and its really depressing to think that the reality for mediocre teams (particularly in cold weather cities).  This is why Danny rarely used the MLE prior to the KG years, and it is where we could be in a couple years again. 

Teams who are not either legit contenders, or in a place where everyone want to win generally need to decide between overpaying incredibly mediocre players often double what they are worth, or just not using the MLE (or cap space) at all.  I really am not looking forward to being back in that position.

Yeah, I hear you.  I really think Danny learned quite a bit on-the-job in his first few years at GM, and won't make the same mistake he did when he tried to rebuild from the Antoine years, which really handicapped us for a long time, and forced some other less-than-great deals (and some okay ones) later on in clean-up moves.

What you're describing, though, is "free agency" in a nutshell.  Players, most often, go to the highest bidder, which means nobody else would (or could) pay them that much, so one could say they're overpaid.

So...we don't like youth (building through the draft) with all of the execution problems.  We don't like free agency, which is a sucker's game of overpaying.  And it is near-impossible to count on trades, as so few good player/good contract guys get traded (usually it's bad contracts/bad players). 

Tough being a GM, eh?

[hpantazo]

"bigger offers elsewhere"



That's not boston.

Probably not, but I believe that Toronto has used up their MLE already.  That means they have to work a sign-n-trade in order to pay Barnes more than a couple million a year.  I would think some other team would offer more than what Boston could swing involving a sign-n-trade for TA with Memphis, but you never know.

Mike

I think he will go to cleveland for more money than any of the contenders are willing to offer him, and more playing time.