Is Our Bench Really That Bad?

[jason macleod]

Bare with me and consider Kendrick is coming back.  That leaves our starting five intact.  Then off the bench we have Nate and Glen Davis, two high energy guys that don't give up too much on defense and can at times spark on offense (they also seem to work well together).  Then add O'neil who at least is a wash with Sheed from last year.  So far we're in the same shape.  Now trade Tony Allen for Bradley and this is where the difference does begin to show but all indication is this young kid can d-up legit two guards and provide a more reliable offensive option then Tony.  The only difference is the versatility Tony provided as he could guard small forwards to spell Pierce at times and I agree we need a wing to bring balance to this ship but with what we have and Docs preference to run 8-9 players anyway how are we any worse really?

[nickagneta]

Bare with me and consider Kendrick is coming back.  That leaves our starting five intact.  Then off the bench we have Nate and Glen Davis, two high energy guys that don't give up too much on defense and can at times spark on offense (they also seem to work well together).  Then add O'neil who at least is a wash with Sheed from last year.  So far we're in the same shape.  Now trade Tony Allen for Bradley and this is where the difference does begin to show but all indication is this young kid can d-up legit two guards and provide a more reliable offensive option then Tony.  The only difference is the versatility Tony provided as he could guard small forwards to spell Pierce at times and I agree we need a wing to bring balance to this ship but with what we have and Docs preference to run 8-9 players anyway how are we any worse really?

Given that O'Neal will probably be the starter for most if not all year and that when Perk comes back he will probably not be near his normal self physically until maybe the year after, I have to think that, the bench has taken a major step back thus far.

Until Perk comes back which might not be until the 50th or 60th game of the season, and once again I am repeating myself but do not expect him to come back and start or be himself next year, we have no backup at the center position, the small forward position or the shooting guard position. Bradley and Robinson are PGs.

And please don't tell me about Harangody or Erden or Gaffney. They will not be giving this team anything near what the C's got out of players they had last year. For me, this is how the benches compare

Last year during the playoffs

Robinson
Finley
Tony
Daniels
Davis
Wallace
Scalabrine
Williams

Now

Davis
Robinson
Bradley

That's scary to me. Granted the off season isn't over but the bench has taken a major hit.

[jason macleod]

out of all those players listed from last years bench only Nate Tony Wallace and Davis got any significant run.  I think O'neil will be an upgrade to Wallace but your right with Perk out for the season we're a little light there.  Pf is solid with KG and Davis.  Thats fine.  Nate backs up Rondo, he looked great in the playoffs and now he'll actually know our offense.  Avery Bradley is not a PG, he's a small 2 alla Ben Gordan.  Word is he can Dup so him backing up Ray should in theory be solid.  The 3 is our problem area though IF Harangody can keep hitting those threes he may see some time or we need to trade sheed and get Barnes via sign and trade.

[Who]

It's too early to say. Need to see what type of player they bring in to be the main backup wing + how well they flesh out the remainder of the bench.

This (quality of the bench) could still go in a lot of different directions.

[Cman]

Bare with me and consider Kendrick is coming back.  That leaves our starting five intact.  Then off the bench we have Nate and Glen Davis, two high energy guys that don't give up too much on defense and can at times spark on offense (they also seem to work well together).  Then add O'neil who at least is a wash with Sheed from last year.  So far we're in the same shape.  Now trade Tony Allen for Bradley and this is where the difference does begin to show but all indication is this young kid can d-up legit two guards and provide a more reliable offensive option then Tony.  The only difference is the versatility Tony provided as he could guard small forwards to spell Pierce at times and I agree we need a wing to bring balance to this ship but with what we have and Docs preference to run 8-9 players anyway how are we any worse really?

Obviously too early to say.  Let's see how Danny fills out the roster with vet mins and a trade of Sheed's contract.

But the one thing you have to keep in mind is that the Celtics need a *better* bench than they had last year.  The role of the bench for this squad will be to reduce the starters minutes throughout the course of the regular season, without sacrificing too many wins.  As the bench is currently construed, I see Ray and Paul playing about 38 minutes and KG about 35 minutes a game (I don't worry about Rondo, and Perk is out until Feb).  That's too many minutes for those guys.  There needs to be another quality big, who can start if necessary, and there absolutely has to be a very good wing off the bench.

As I've said before, of all the contending teams in the NBA, the bench is the most crucial for the Celtics, so as to keep the minutes down during the regular season.

Right now, yes, our bench is bad.

[More Banners]

Well grease my knees and fleece my bees, I'm lookin' for my missin' piece....

That's all, folks-one impact [rotation] piece w/Sheed's deal, and a minimum contract or two to hold the fort from time to time, and we're no worse than last year.  

Of course, it was torture to follow this team for a good chunk of last year...

[wdleehi]

The bench is incomplete at the moment.   I expect a move soon to answer at least one of the issues (backup swing and 4th big man till Perk returns)

[celticinorlando]

as of right now...the bench is pathetic

[Boris Badenov]

The bench is incomplete at the moment.   I expect a move soon to answer at least one of the issues (backup swing and 4th big man till Perk returns)

Nocioni seems to provide some help on both fronts, since he can play the 3 and against smaller 4s. His game does seem to be on the decline, but he still seems like a decent role player and his salary matches Sheed's. I can't think of a reason that Philly would want to keep him give the rest of their roster.

To me, that seems to fill the primary need, which is someone to spell PP against physical 3s. I really got the sense last year that PP would run out of gas late, if he spent big minutes covering a power 3 for the whole game. And if he can't get to his spots late in the game because of fatigue, we are in big trouble.

Then, we'd probably need another backup stiff as insurance, and a vet min SG.

[Rashi]

So far on our bench we have:

Nate
Baby
Avery

As of right now I am pretty happy that we have those guys part of the bench, because Nate + Baby are tested and we know that they are solid backups. (plus they have playoff experience).

When comparing it to last season's bench...we are missing : Sheldon, Quis, Scal and Finley. Now most of them didn't even play in the finals...so not having them for next season really doesn't mean anything.

As for TA...I am going to reserve from saying anything until I see what kind of a replacement we get for him.

[Cman]

and we're no worse than last year.  

I don't mean to sound like a broken record, so this will be my last post of my opinion on this matter for a while, but.... "as good as last year" is a step backwards, IMHO.

Since our starters are old guys (except Rondo), it is *crucial* for the Cs to have a quality bench that can play meaningful minutes during the regular season so as to keep the starters' minutes down.  This all changes during the post-season, when the Cs will mostly rely on the starters.  But the issue and hand-wringing about the bench right now has to do with keeping the starters' minutes down during the regular season, and stepping in to fill in for the injured starter here or there (which will happen).  If the starters' minutes aren't down, its early playoff exit for us...

[SCBirdman]

I agree with the earlier poster stating our bench is incomplete at the moment. What DA does from here on out will determine our bench.

However, consider this. Right now, until after the All-Star break, our bench is Bradley, Davis, and Nate. Bradley is a rookie, and we all know how Doc feels about Rookies. Which means that until after the all-star break, our bench is Shrek and Donkey. That's it. Maybe Scal is resigned for the min.

That bench will not help us win a championship by themselves. We need 2 wings that can spell Paul and Ray. We need another big like Rasho Nasterovich to get us through until the all-star break. We need length off the bench that Baby does not provide to beat LA.

When you look at our bench, you have to look at and ask the question, how do we match up with LA now? Because that is the goal, winning a championship. The goal is not filling out the roster. The goal is filling the roster in such a way that will help us win a Championship.

Perk will likely not be Perk all season. I know some of you don't believe that, but I promise you. Coming back an trusting his leg mentally will be just as big as his physical rehab. He is a big man, not a WR or CB in football coming back from this injury. He is a 6'10 28 pound guy. It won't be easy. If he does come back healthy and 100 percent by playoffs, then our 4 bigs will match up.

However, we still need a Kobe and LBJ stopper off the bench, and we need another shooter/wing to spell Ray.

That is DA's job if we are to compete for banner 18 or just field a winning team to fill seats.

[Jevi]

The bench is not even good enough to get through the playoffs. The starting five was hurt or tired in the 4th quarter of the Finals. Glen Davis, Mr. high energy scored 6pts in final 3 games(why is he still here). Sheed is to retire, but O'neal is a great signing,but he'll be starting. Then Tony Allen leaves and the bench is worst again. Nate is a good signing but can he defend. The rookies are impressive,but unproven. I'm with Paul,impact championship caliber bench players are just about gone. Paul wants his know who is subbing him,vital for this team. Doc needed someone to keep Ray from going 0-13. So after Rasual Butler signs wherever,time to make deals. Remember it was Sheed's addition that challenged the 1st unit in practice.

[manl_lui]

its not that our bench is bad, its just that our bench is short

losing Sheed is a big factor...Marquis didnt really help much and the departure of TA depleted our bench roster...

at the moment having a backup Small Forward is a big priority. Preferably someone who can play the guard and forward. ie Tracy McGrady or the Power Small ie Josh Howard...

2nd priority should be another big as we do not know Perkin's time table...

I would prefer this lineup

Rondo/Nate
Ray Allen/Bradey
Pierce/TMac/Josh Howard
KG/Josh Howard/BBD
Jermaine/BBD

if we can acquire Shaq then in my opinion we can defeat the so called "SUPER HEAT" and be back at the finals

to be honest im more anxious to see Shaq make another anti-Kobe rap =)

[LooseCannon]

The bench isn't horrible, but some people think it is the end of Western civilization if the Celtics bench doesn't include at least two young potential All-Stars. (Some of them would accept the addition of one young potential All-Star because they think Big Baby is a future All-Star power forward.  I believe some of them also thought it was a good idea for Richard Jefferson to opt out of his contract.)