Another look at Miami's depth

[Snakehead]

With the signing of James Jones, they can now start Mike Miller, if they choose:

C: J. Anthony / Big Z / Magloire / D. Pittman (r)
PF: Bosh / Haslem / J. Howard / J. Varnado (r)
SF: Lebron / J. Jones / Da'Sean Butler (r)
SG: M. Miller / (Jones)
PG: D. Wade / Chalmers / Arroyo

A bench of Big Z, Haslem, Jones, and Chalmers is pretty competent.  Lebron / Wade won't have much of a problem initiating the offense, and Wade can defend the vast majority of point guards.

Uh, Joel Anthony averaged 2.7 points and 3.1 boards a game during the regular season, 2.6 points and 1.8 boards in the playoffs and he'll be 28 years old when next season starts, so he ain't getting any better. No team that starts Joel Anthony at center will win 65 games.  James Jones averaged 4.1 points and 1.3 boards in the regular season.  In the playoffs he averaged 2 points, 0 boards, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks and 1 turnover a game.

Secondly, in Miami last year, Chalmers and Arroyo played a combined 49 minutes a game.  Which means Wade played a total of 0 minutes at point guard.

Mike

Might want to adjust those numbers for playing time.  Not that they are spectacular, but this team will only be asking guys like Anthony to board and defend.  He can do that pretty well.

And Wade was not asked to be the PG in Miami.  Look at his assist numbers, he can do that.  Anyways, I think LeBron would be their option if they choose to go without a true PG in their starting 5.  If you have enough good passers you don't need a true PG, and Wade and LeBron are two of the best passers outside of the PG position in the league.

[MBunge]

Just in the East, who on that team is going to keep Rondo or Derrick Rose out of the middle or Dwight Howard off the boards?

Simple, Wade backs off Rondo and Rose to make them shoot jumpers (more effective on Rondo than Rose but Rose doesn't have the big 3 to pass to) and play Orlando straight man with no help on Howard like the C's did.  Haslem can body Howard and make him try to score from 8-10 feet out. 

Rose shot 45% from the field and 33% from behind the arc last year.  If you play off him, he could score 40+.  Secondly, if you think Haslem can guard Howard one-on-one like the Cs did, you're smoking something.  According to official height/weight numbers, which we all know are usually inflated for height and deflated for weight, Haslem is one inch shorter and 54 pounds lighter than Big Baby, 2 inches shorter and 45 pounds lighter than Perk, and 3 inches shorter than Sheed, though also laughably 5 pounds heavier.  I respect Haslem's effort, but there's no physical way he'll be able to move Howard off the block or keep him off the boards.

Mike

[MBunge]

Just in the East, who on that team is going to keep Rondo or Derrick Rose out of the middle or Dwight Howard off the boards?

Simple, Wade backs off Rondo and Rose to make them shoot jumpers (more effective on Rondo than Rose but Rose doesn't have the big 3 to pass to) and play Orlando straight man with no help on Howard like the C's did.  Haslem can body Howard and make him try to score from 8-10 feet out.  Heat now have the defenders to stay with their men on the perimeter or can cover the open ground if they cheat a bit to help on Howard.

Wade can defend PGs as well as anyone.  I don't know how that could be seen as a matchup problem for them.

How many minutes has Wade spent defending PGs in his entire NBA career?  I know he spent 0 minutes doing so last season.

Mike

[Snakehead]

Just in the East, who on that team is going to keep Rondo or Derrick Rose out of the middle or Dwight Howard off the boards?

Simple, Wade backs off Rondo and Rose to make them shoot jumpers (more effective on Rondo than Rose but Rose doesn't have the big 3 to pass to) and play Orlando straight man with no help on Howard like the C's did.  Haslem can body Howard and make him try to score from 8-10 feet out.  Heat now have the defenders to stay with their men on the perimeter or can cover the open ground if they cheat a bit to help on Howard.

Wade can defend PGs as well as anyone.  I don't know how that could be seen as a matchup problem for them.

How many minutes has Wade spent defending PGs in his entire NBA career?  I know he spent 0 minutes doing so last season.

Mike

Again, he was not asked to.  If you think Dwayne Wade doesn't have the physical tools and defensive ability to guard PGs then you must be smoking something.

[Eddie20]

With the signing of James Jones, they can now start Mike Miller, if they choose:

C: J. Anthony / Big Z / Magloire / D. Pittman (r)
PF: Bosh / Haslem / J. Howard / J. Varnado (r)
SF: Lebron / J. Jones / Da'Sean Butler (r)
SG: M. Miller / (Jones)
PG: D. Wade / Chalmers / Arroyo

A bench of Big Z, Haslem, Jones, and Chalmers is pretty competent.  Lebron / Wade won't have much of a problem initiating the offense, and Wade can defend the vast majority of point guards.

Uh, Joel Anthony averaged 2.7 points and 3.1 boards a game during the regular season, 2.6 points and 1.8 boards in the playoffs and he'll be 28 years old when next season starts, so he ain't getting any better. No team that starts Joel Anthony at center will win 65 games.  James Jones averaged 4.1 points and 1.3 boards in the regular season.  In the playoffs he averaged 2 points, 0 boards, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks and 1 turnover a game.

Secondly, in Miami last year, Chalmers and Arroyo played a combined 49 minutes a game.  Which means Wade played a total of 0 minutes at point guard.

Mike

I was just going to post Anthony's stats, so thank you. I'm amazed that people mention him in a positive light with these numbers. Is it because he looks like he is a good rebounder that people assume he is?

[MBunge]

With the signing of James Jones, they can now start Mike Miller, if they choose:

C: J. Anthony / Big Z / Magloire / D. Pittman (r)
PF: Bosh / Haslem / J. Howard / J. Varnado (r)
SF: Lebron / J. Jones / Da'Sean Butler (r)
SG: M. Miller / (Jones)
PG: D. Wade / Chalmers / Arroyo

A bench of Big Z, Haslem, Jones, and Chalmers is pretty competent.  Lebron / Wade won't have much of a problem initiating the offense, and Wade can defend the vast majority of point guards.

Uh, Joel Anthony averaged 2.7 points and 3.1 boards a game during the regular season, 2.6 points and 1.8 boards in the playoffs and he'll be 28 years old when next season starts, so he ain't getting any better. No team that starts Joel Anthony at center will win 65 games.  James Jones averaged 4.1 points and 1.3 boards in the regular season.  In the playoffs he averaged 2 points, 0 boards, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks and 1 turnover a game.

Secondly, in Miami last year, Chalmers and Arroyo played a combined 49 minutes a game.  Which means Wade played a total of 0 minutes at point guard.

Mike

Might want to adjust those numbers for playing time. 

How can the Heat be a title contending team if they're going to play guys who couldn't get minutes on a mediocre team last year?  Besides, even if you doubled Anthony's minutes from 16 to 17 last season to 32 to 34 for the next...he'd still be the worst starting center in the league by a wide margin.

Mike

[MBunge]

Just in the East, who on that team is going to keep Rondo or Derrick Rose out of the middle or Dwight Howard off the boards?

Simple, Wade backs off Rondo and Rose to make them shoot jumpers (more effective on Rondo than Rose but Rose doesn't have the big 3 to pass to) and play Orlando straight man with no help on Howard like the C's did.  Haslem can body Howard and make him try to score from 8-10 feet out.  Heat now have the defenders to stay with their men on the perimeter or can cover the open ground if they cheat a bit to help on Howard.

Wade can defend PGs as well as anyone.  I don't know how that could be seen as a matchup problem for them.

How many minutes has Wade spent defending PGs in his entire NBA career?  I know he spent 0 minutes doing so last season.

Mike

Again, he was not asked to.  If you think Dwayne Wade doesn't have the physical tools and defensive ability to guard PGs then you must be smoking something.

Being a good to great defender at the 2 does not automatically make you a good to great defender at the 1.  Wade and LeBron are amazing players, but they're not magical fairies who can just solve every matchup problem with a wave of their wands.

Mike

[Roy Hobbs]

With the signing of James Jones, they can now start Mike Miller, if they choose:

C: J. Anthony / Big Z / Magloire / D. Pittman (r)
PF: Bosh / Haslem / J. Howard / J. Varnado (r)
SF: Lebron / J. Jones / Da'Sean Butler (r)
SG: M. Miller / (Jones)
PG: D. Wade / Chalmers / Arroyo

A bench of Big Z, Haslem, Jones, and Chalmers is pretty competent.  Lebron / Wade won't have much of a problem initiating the offense, and Wade can defend the vast majority of point guards.

Uh, Joel Anthony averaged 2.7 points and 3.1 boards a game during the regular season, 2.6 points and 1.8 boards in the playoffs and he'll be 28 years old when next season starts, so he ain't getting any better. No team that starts Joel Anthony at center will win 65 games.  James Jones averaged 4.1 points and 1.3 boards in the regular season.  In the playoffs he averaged 2 points, 0 boards, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks and 1 turnover a game.

Secondly, in Miami last year, Chalmers and Arroyo played a combined 49 minutes a game.  Which means Wade played a total of 0 minutes at point guard.

Mike

In order:

1.  Joel Anthony is an excellent shot blocker and defender.  The Heat went 13-3 last season in games that he started.  He's certainly not an elite player, but he'll be good enough defending the paint.

2.  Jones has been slowed by injury, but he's still one of the best three point shooters in the league.  He's capable of providing legitimate bench minutes, which is all that the Heat needs.

3.  Wade played 4% of the Heat's point guard minutes last year.  Due to the way the Heat roster was constructed, he was often playing alongside a smaller player.  However, he had the ball in his hands on the majority of offensive possessions, and he's more than capable of defending point guards.  I mean, we're talking about one of the most athletic guards in the NBA.  Wade has played plenty of point guard in the past, including 24% of the Heat's point guard minutes in the 2009 playoffs, etc.

I mean, if the arguments we're making against the Heat are "their center doesn't score a lot" and "Dwayne Wade can't guard 5% of the point guards in the league at a great level", then the NBA may as well just hand the Heat the championship now.

[Greenbean]

Just in the East, who on that team is going to keep Rondo or Derrick Rose out of the middle or Dwight Howard off the boards?

Simple, Wade backs off Rondo and Rose to make them shoot jumpers (more effective on Rondo than Rose but Rose doesn't have the big 3 to pass to) and play Orlando straight man with no help on Howard like the C's did.  Haslem can body Howard and make him try to score from 8-10 feet out.  Heat now have the defenders to stay with their men on the perimeter or can cover the open ground if they cheat a bit to help on Howard.

Wade can defend PGs as well as anyone.  I don't know how that could be seen as a matchup problem for them.

How many minutes has Wade spent defending PGs in his entire NBA career?  I know he spent 0 minutes doing so last season.

Mike

Again, he was not asked to.  If you think Dwayne Wade doesn't have the physical tools and defensive ability to guard PGs then you must be smoking something.

This is rediculous. Haslem cannot play Dwight Howard one on one. There are only a small handful of guys in the league who can do so. Dwayne Wade cannot guard point guards for an entire game. Even if he can stay in front of Rose or Rondo, there are matchup problems everywhere when you do that. It is that simple.

They are limited defeinsively as constructed.

[Snakehead]

Just in the East, who on that team is going to keep Rondo or Derrick Rose out of the middle or Dwight Howard off the boards?

Simple, Wade backs off Rondo and Rose to make them shoot jumpers (more effective on Rondo than Rose but Rose doesn't have the big 3 to pass to) and play Orlando straight man with no help on Howard like the C's did.  Haslem can body Howard and make him try to score from 8-10 feet out.  Heat now have the defenders to stay with their men on the perimeter or can cover the open ground if they cheat a bit to help on Howard.

Wade can defend PGs as well as anyone.  I don't know how that could be seen as a matchup problem for them.

How many minutes has Wade spent defending PGs in his entire NBA career?  I know he spent 0 minutes doing so last season.

Mike

Again, he was not asked to.  If you think Dwayne Wade doesn't have the physical tools and defensive ability to guard PGs then you must be smoking something.

Being a good to great defender at the 2 does not automatically make you a good to great defender at the 1.  Wade and LeBron are amazing players, but they're not magical fairies who can just solve every matchup problem with a wave of their wands.

Mike

Nothing magical about being 6' 4" and one of the most freakishly athletic players in the NBA.  That's not a matchup problem against PGs.  If he can't guard NBA PGs then I'll never claim to know anything about basketball again.  What makes you think he couldnt?  He's not quick enough?  Not big enough?  There is no possible reasoning that would make sense.

Just in the East, who on that team is going to keep Rondo or Derrick Rose out of the middle or Dwight Howard off the boards?

Simple, Wade backs off Rondo and Rose to make them shoot jumpers (more effective on Rondo than Rose but Rose doesn't have the big 3 to pass to) and play Orlando straight man with no help on Howard like the C's did.  Haslem can body Howard and make him try to score from 8-10 feet out.  Heat now have the defenders to stay with their men on the perimeter or can cover the open ground if they cheat a bit to help on Howard.

Wade can defend PGs as well as anyone.  I don't know how that could be seen as a matchup problem for them.

How many minutes has Wade spent defending PGs in his entire NBA career?  I know he spent 0 minutes doing so last season.

Mike

Again, he was not asked to.  If you think Dwayne Wade doesn't have the physical tools and defensive ability to guard PGs then you must be smoking something.

This is rediculous. Haslem cannot play Dwight Howard one on one. There are only a small handful of guys in the league who can do so. Dwayne Wade cannot guard point guards for an entire game. Even if he can stay in front of Rose or Rondo, there are matchup problems everywhere when you do that. It is that simple.

They are limited defeinsively as constructed.

Lets take the Celtics versus a projected Heat lineup:

Rondo vs Wade
Allen vs Mike Miller
Pierce vs LeBron
KG vs Bosh
O'Neal vs (one of their Centers)

Where are the big matchup problems again?  I do not see them at all.  And if the Heat go small with Bosh at C and Haslem at PF we have matchup problems, with some more size and rebounding, but they'd probably run us out of the gym with their speed.


Or the Bulls?

Rose vs Wade
Korver/Brewer vs Miller
Deng vs LeBron
Boozer vs Bosh
Noah vs (Heat Center)

Again, not seeing big matchup problems (outside of the C position where Bulls have a big advantage boarding).


I don't get where these major matchup issues are for this team.

[Roy Hobbs]

Also, of course, people are forgetting about the flip-side of Miami playing Wade at PG:  opposing teams would either have to defend him with their PG, or ask their PG to defend Mike Miller, who is what, 6'8"?

[Eddie20]

With the signing of James Jones, they can now start Mike Miller, if they choose:

C: J. Anthony / Big Z / Magloire / D. Pittman (r)
PF: Bosh / Haslem / J. Howard / J. Varnado (r)
SF: Lebron / J. Jones / Da'Sean Butler (r)
SG: M. Miller / (Jones)
PG: D. Wade / Chalmers / Arroyo

A bench of Big Z, Haslem, Jones, and Chalmers is pretty competent.  Lebron / Wade won't have much of a problem initiating the offense, and Wade can defend the vast majority of point guards.

Uh, Joel Anthony averaged 2.7 points and 3.1 boards a game during the regular season, 2.6 points and 1.8 boards in the playoffs and he'll be 28 years old when next season starts, so he ain't getting any better. No team that starts Joel Anthony at center will win 65 games.  James Jones averaged 4.1 points and 1.3 boards in the regular season.  In the playoffs he averaged 2 points, 0 boards, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks and 1 turnover a game.

Secondly, in Miami last year, Chalmers and Arroyo played a combined 49 minutes a game.  Which means Wade played a total of 0 minutes at point guard.

Mike

Might want to adjust those numbers for playing time.  Not that they are spectacular, but this team will only be asking guys like Anthony to board and defend.  He can do that pretty well.

And Wade was not asked to be the PG in Miami.  Look at his assist numbers, he can do that.  Anyways, I think LeBron would be their option if they choose to go without a true PG in their starting 5.  If you have enough good passers you don't need a true PG, and Wade and LeBron are two of the best passers outside of the PG position in the league.

In the playoffs, Antony averaged 1.8 RPG in 15.7 MPG or 9 TOTAL boards in 78.5 minutes of action.

Players will rack up assists if they have the ball in their hands the majority of the game. I don't think him getting assists means he can run the point. He has the talent to do it, but his mindset is that of a scorer.

[Snakehead]

With the signing of James Jones, they can now start Mike Miller, if they choose:

C: J. Anthony / Big Z / Magloire / D. Pittman (r)
PF: Bosh / Haslem / J. Howard / J. Varnado (r)
SF: Lebron / J. Jones / Da'Sean Butler (r)
SG: M. Miller / (Jones)
PG: D. Wade / Chalmers / Arroyo

A bench of Big Z, Haslem, Jones, and Chalmers is pretty competent.  Lebron / Wade won't have much of a problem initiating the offense, and Wade can defend the vast majority of point guards.

Uh, Joel Anthony averaged 2.7 points and 3.1 boards a game during the regular season, 2.6 points and 1.8 boards in the playoffs and he'll be 28 years old when next season starts, so he ain't getting any better. No team that starts Joel Anthony at center will win 65 games.  James Jones averaged 4.1 points and 1.3 boards in the regular season.  In the playoffs he averaged 2 points, 0 boards, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks and 1 turnover a game.

Secondly, in Miami last year, Chalmers and Arroyo played a combined 49 minutes a game.  Which means Wade played a total of 0 minutes at point guard.

Mike

Might want to adjust those numbers for playing time.  Not that they are spectacular, but this team will only be asking guys like Anthony to board and defend.  He can do that pretty well.

And Wade was not asked to be the PG in Miami.  Look at his assist numbers, he can do that.  Anyways, I think LeBron would be their option if they choose to go without a true PG in their starting 5.  If you have enough good passers you don't need a true PG, and Wade and LeBron are two of the best passers outside of the PG position in the league.

In the playoffs, Antony averaged 1.8 RPG in 15.7 MPG or 9 TOTAL boards in 78.5 minutes of action.

Players will rack up assists if they have the ball in their hands the majority of the game. I don't think him getting assists means he can run the point. He has the talent to do it, but his mindset is that of a scorer.

We killed MIA in the playoffs... I don't get the use of the numbers from that series for any players really.  Besides Wade we shut down that whole team.  We basically dared Wade to beat us with no help.  Jermaine O'Neal also had a terrible series, and he can still contribute and is better than his numbers.  Not claiming Joel Anthony is great, but I think he can board and defend well enough.

Agreed with Wade's mindset on the previous MIA team, but this is a new one with other stars.  They will all have to be more unselfish, like KG, Pierce, and Ray made changes.  I think LeBron is the better option for their "PG" role on offense, but either way between LeBron and Wade they have two great passers who can both run the show.

[Eddie20]

Also, of course, people are forgetting about the flip-side of Miami playing Wade at PG:  opposing teams would either have to defend him with their PG, or ask their PG to defend Mike Miller, who is what, 6'8"?

And there is a flipside to that. If the Heat want to take advantage of a smaller player, would James' ego be content to become a spectator watching post ups for Wade? Or worst yet, would James and Wade be appreciative of watching Miller go to work in the post?

[Eddie20]

With the signing of James Jones, they can now start Mike Miller, if they choose:

C: J. Anthony / Big Z / Magloire / D. Pittman (r)
PF: Bosh / Haslem / J. Howard / J. Varnado (r)
SF: Lebron / J. Jones / Da'Sean Butler (r)
SG: M. Miller / (Jones)
PG: D. Wade / Chalmers / Arroyo

A bench of Big Z, Haslem, Jones, and Chalmers is pretty competent.  Lebron / Wade won't have much of a problem initiating the offense, and Wade can defend the vast majority of point guards.

Uh, Joel Anthony averaged 2.7 points and 3.1 boards a game during the regular season, 2.6 points and 1.8 boards in the playoffs and he'll be 28 years old when next season starts, so he ain't getting any better. No team that starts Joel Anthony at center will win 65 games.  James Jones averaged 4.1 points and 1.3 boards in the regular season.  In the playoffs he averaged 2 points, 0 boards, 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks and 1 turnover a game.

Secondly, in Miami last year, Chalmers and Arroyo played a combined 49 minutes a game.  Which means Wade played a total of 0 minutes at point guard.

Mike

Might want to adjust those numbers for playing time.  Not that they are spectacular, but this team will only be asking guys like Anthony to board and defend.  He can do that pretty well.

And Wade was not asked to be the PG in Miami.  Look at his assist numbers, he can do that.  Anyways, I think LeBron would be their option if they choose to go without a true PG in their starting 5.  If you have enough good passers you don't need a true PG, and Wade and LeBron are two of the best passers outside of the PG position in the league.

In the playoffs, Antony averaged 1.8 RPG in 15.7 MPG or 9 TOTAL boards in 78.5 minutes of action.

Players will rack up assists if they have the ball in their hands the majority of the game. I don't think him getting assists means he can run the point. He has the talent to do it, but his mindset is that of a scorer.

Agreed with Wade's mindset on the previous MIA team, but this is a new one with other stars.  They will all have to be more unselfish, like KG, Pierce, and Ray made changes.  I think LeBron is the better option for their "PG" role on offense, but either way between LeBron and Wade they have two great passers who can both run the show.

I have to defer to Doc and his statement that the Big 3 wouldn't have worked if they were younger. I think everything will be fine when they're winning, but I can't wait to see them face some adversity. Both Wade and James have been used to having the ball in their hands, their entire life, during these moments. I'm eager to see how the one that doesn't react in a newfound role.