will not make it with old scrubby bigs

[Cman]

Can somone get the Celtics a player with a chance to approximate those four bigs listed in the previous paragraph? 

Sheed's contract for Maurice Evans and Zaza Pachulia.  ATL probably won't do it, because Pachulia's contract is looking really good, given how things have unfolded this offseason.  But the deal would help ATL save at least $6.5M this year, maybe more depending on where they are in relation to luxury tax.

C's get a defensive presence in the mold of Perkins, and a quality backup wing in Evans.

[GreenFaith1819]

Plus, I think that against MIA, we won't have to worry about Bosh abusing us in the paint - even without Perk back.

Bosh is more of a jump shooter than post player. He doesn't have a traditional post game, IMO. I think he even increased his J range while in TOR.

We'd have more to worry about from Lebron or Wade slashing in the lane than Bosh.

Yeah in order to take advantage of James and Wade's penetration, Bosh will have to be a jump shooter.

As great as the Miami 3 are, they will have to win me over with their ability to advance the ball with pressure, and with their ability to defend the paint/rim.

And that, Mr October, is where MIA is lacking, I think. This is the Interior Defense that MIA has - right now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUQh1V2qpZg&feature=PlayList&p=09238297A4BFFCE8&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=42

And Joel Anthony isn't the answer. If our Bigs can abuse MIA, then imagine what LA or ORL will do to them?

[wiley]

Plus, I think that against MIA, we won't have to worry about Bosh abusing us in the paint - even without Perk back.

Bosh is more of a jump shooter than post player. He doesn't have a traditional post game, IMO. I think he even increased his J range while in TOR.

We'd have more to worry about from Lebron or Wade slashing in the lane than Bosh.

Yeah in order to take advantage of James and Wade's penetration, Bosh will have to be a jump shooter.

As great as the Miami 3 are, they will have to win me over with their ability to advance the ball with pressure, and with their ability to defend the paint/rim.

Yeah, not too worried about Bosh.  I  do think he'll drag one of our bigs out of the paint though at times, allowing Lebron to fly in there and dunk, and Wade to fly in there and finish creatively. 

[PosImpos]

Plus, I think that against MIA, we won't have to worry about Bosh abusing us in the paint - even without Perk back.

Bosh is more of a jump shooter than post player. He doesn't have a traditional post game, IMO. I think he even increased his J range while in TOR.

We'd have more to worry about from Lebron or Wade slashing in the lane than Bosh.

Yeah in order to take advantage of James and Wade's penetration, Bosh will have to be a jump shooter.

As great as the Miami 3 are, they will have to win me over with their ability to advance the ball with pressure, and with their ability to defend the paint/rim.

And that, Mr October, is where MIA is lacking, I think. This is the Interior Defense that MIA has - right now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUQh1V2qpZg&feature=PlayList&p=09238297A4BFFCE8&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=42

And Joel Anthony isn't the answer. If our Bigs can abuse MIA, then imagine what LA or ORL will do to them?

So, uh, when is LeBron gonna get burned by Pierce bad enough for Paul to posterize Bosh? 

Bosh was expected to be the main paint defender in Toronto because Bargnani is soft as paper.  In Miami, he'll be a help defender, not the leader of the interior defense.  With top notch defenders (and shot blockers) like Wade and Bron on the wing collapsing to help inside, and most likely a decent shot blocking presence like Joel Anthony anchoring inside, Bosh will be able to function a lot more effectively on the defensive end.

Just because the Raptors sucked at defense doesn't mean the Heat will, in other words.  Very, very different situations.

[GreenFaith1819]

Plus, I think that against MIA, we won't have to worry about Bosh abusing us in the paint - even without Perk back.

Bosh is more of a jump shooter than post player. He doesn't have a traditional post game, IMO. I think he even increased his J range while in TOR.

We'd have more to worry about from Lebron or Wade slashing in the lane than Bosh.

Yeah in order to take advantage of James and Wade's penetration, Bosh will have to be a jump shooter.

As great as the Miami 3 are, they will have to win me over with their ability to advance the ball with pressure, and with their ability to defend the paint/rim.

Yeah, not too worried about Bosh.  I  do think he'll drag one of our bigs out of the paint though at times, allowing Lebron to fly in there and dunk, and Wade to fly in there and finish creatively. 

Well, I don't know about that. Please see J. O'Neal's Performance just last year - VS LA:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmGqDXbXBXA&feature=related

Impressive. Jermaine even got Gasol as he was driving towards the basket.

Plus, this is what J.O did to Lebron - just last yr. Notice his block on Lebron started the break:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRN7iJ5CqQ

Yes - J.O. Will patrol the paint quite nicely, for us. No soup for Lebron or Wade in the future from us. He will hold down the fort quite nicely until Perk gets back.

[pearljammer10]

Plus, I think that against MIA, we won't have to worry about Bosh abusing us in the paint - even without Perk back.

Bosh is more of a jump shooter than post player. He doesn't have a traditional post game, IMO. I think he even increased his J range while in TOR.

We'd have more to worry about from Lebron or Wade slashing in the lane than Bosh.

Yeah in order to take advantage of James and Wade's penetration, Bosh will have to be a jump shooter.

As great as the Miami 3 are, they will have to win me over with their ability to advance the ball with pressure, and with their ability to defend the paint/rim.

Yeah, not too worried about Bosh.  I  do think he'll drag one of our bigs out of the paint though at times, allowing Lebron to fly in there and dunk, and Wade to fly in there and finish creatively. 

Well, I don't know about that. Please see J. O'Neal's Performance just last year - VS LA:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmGqDXbXBXA&feature=related

Impressive. Jermaine even got Gasol as he was driving towards the basket.

Plus, this is what J.O did to Lebron - just last yr. Notice his block on Lebron started the break:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRN7iJ5CqQ

Yes - J.O. Will patrol the paint quite nicely, for us. No soup for Lebron or Wade in the future from us. He will hold down the fort quite nicely until Perk gets back.

Wow. I love how when Oneal blocks the shot...The announcers sit in awkward silence and dont say ANYTHING about the block... The finally, "Well, he was looking for contact..." Really? Was he now? I think he just got his shot block, I highly doubt he was "looking for contact". I hate his baby treatment.

[kozlodoev]

So what, we'll make it with young and scrubby bigs? Seriously.

[GreenFaith1819]

Plus, I think that against MIA, we won't have to worry about Bosh abusing us in the paint - even without Perk back.

Bosh is more of a jump shooter than post player. He doesn't have a traditional post game, IMO. I think he even increased his J range while in TOR.

We'd have more to worry about from Lebron or Wade slashing in the lane than Bosh.

Yeah in order to take advantage of James and Wade's penetration, Bosh will have to be a jump shooter.

As great as the Miami 3 are, they will have to win me over with their ability to advance the ball with pressure, and with their ability to defend the paint/rim.

And that, Mr October, is where MIA is lacking, I think. This is the Interior Defense that MIA has - right now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUQh1V2qpZg&feature=PlayList&p=09238297A4BFFCE8&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=42

And Joel Anthony isn't the answer. If our Bigs can abuse MIA, then imagine what LA or ORL will do to them?

So, uh, when is LeBron gonna get burned by Pierce bad enough for Paul to posterize Bosh? 

Bosh was expected to be the main paint defender in Toronto because Bargnani is soft as paper.  In Miami, he'll be a help defender, not the leader of the interior defense.  With top notch defenders (and shot blockers) like Wade and Bron on the wing collapsing to help inside, and most likely a decent shot blocking presence like Joel Anthony anchoring inside, Bosh will be able to function a lot more effectively on the defensive end.

Just because the Raptors sucked at defense doesn't mean the Heat will, in other words.  Very, very different situations.

Well, I have to disagree with you here, Pos.

An interior of Bosh and Joel Anthony doesn't scare Boston (or ORL or LA).

Against us, do you really believe that Lebron or Wade will be able to help out Bosh? With Ray or Pierce lurking near three range? And with Rondo threatening to penetrate?

Better not leave Ray Ray alone, even for a min. They saw the value in Ray by trying to lure him from us. And Pierce is a threat from 3, as well.

Sure - Pierce will probably draw Lebron, and then Wade will draw Ray, but poor Wade will be tired (again) by the 3rd quarter from chasing Ray, fighting through screens and such.

And even with Lebron covering Pierce, Pierce broke lose for that 21 pt, 11 reb, 7 assist critical game 5 last May - because Lebron had to guard Rondo for a portion of the game.

In a future situation like this, does MIA place Wade on Pierce? And Lebron on Rondo? Then what about Ray? Chalmers on Ray?

Neither Wade or Lebron can keep Rondo from penetrating, and once he does, will Bosh (or Anthony) really slow him down? This isn't LA's twin towers, or Dwight Howard here.

Chalmers can't stop Rondo.

Can't see it. I am not a basketball wiz by any stretch, but MIA will have their hands full with us. As old as we are, we still have many weapons. And with J.O. on the floor, we have 5 Offensive Weapons to contend with.

[GreenFaith1819]

Look - I have to give MIA credit. They are a Great Team, on paper. They may win 50-55 games this season, especially taking advantage of the weaker opponents. Will probably win a few against us too, no doubt.

But when the chips are down (April-June 2011), MIA will struggle. They will face the best teams in a playoff series and will not be successful. Every team they face will be healthy and have that playoff experience.

MIA, sadly, will just have to wait their turn. No overnight success, here. Their roadblock(s) to LA will be in place for next two-three years, and they are Boston and ORL - with CHI and ATL giving them problems, too.

[Cman]

possible minutes:

KG - 30 MPG
JO - 28 MPG
Davis - 24 MPG
unnamed big man - 14+ MPG

I like: Shaq or Brad Miller if a trade could be swung
..or for the minimum: Kwame, Kurt Thomas, Earl Barron, Matt Bonner, Johan Petro

I think Bonner is already resigned by the Spurs for like $4M/yr

[FallGuy]

This thread is off target.

Celtics problem is not bigs. It's wing defense and scoring.

[wiley]

This thread is off target.

Celtics problem is not bigs. It's wing defense and scoring.

I love wing defense and scoring.  This thread was inspired by the new Miami team.  IMO, Paul and Ray (who get most of the minutes) and our upcoming wing acquisition, who very likely get fewer minutes than Paul and Ray, are not going to keep Wade and Lebron from getting into the lane.  I'd be quite happy with what would happen to them in the lane if we had the following:

1.  healthy Perk
2.  Jermaine O'Neal at big minutes without injury concern
3.  KG fully back, fully mobile, and comfortable with more minutes than last year
4.  Baby with a couple more inches.

2 and 3 I would like to think are very possible.  1 and 4 are not.  Hope the best for Perk of course. 

If this thread is off base it's not because it's anti-wing, anti-scoring or anti-defense.  It's off base because we have no means to get a young athletic big with great lane defense and no injury concerns. 

[FallGuy]

This thread is off target.

Celtics problem is not bigs. It's wing defense and scoring.

I love wing defense and scoring.  This thread was inspired by the new Miami team.  IMO, Paul and Ray (who get most of the minutes) and our upcoming wing acquisition, who very likely get fewer minutes than Paul and Ray, are not going to keep Wade and Lebron from getting into the lane.  I'd be quite happy with what would happen to them in the lane if we had the following:

1.  healthy Perk
2.  Jermaine O'Neal at big minutes without injury concern
3.  KG fully back, fully mobile, and comfortable with more minutes than last year
4.  Baby with a couple more inches.

2 and 3 I would like to think are very possible.  1 and 4 are not.  Hope the best for Perk of course.  

If this thread is off base it's not because it's anti-wing, anti-scoring or anti-defense.  It's off base because we have no means to get a young athletic big with great lane defense and no injury concerns.  

I agree with your last sentence - we have minimal ability (save for Sheed's contract) to go get another big. And I'm right with you - would love a young athletic big to get on the boards and rebound and to run with Rondo. But I doubt it's going to happen.

I do think our collection of bigs is championship calibre. We can reasonably expect better performance from KG and Baby next year, and O'Neal is an upgrade over Sheed, IMO. With Perk, we'll have to see. His game isn't based on athleticism so perhaps he'll be effective in the pivot more quickly than would a guy like Garnett, if he had the same injury. Anyway, I think neither Miami, nor Orlando, nor Chicago will be better than our bigs.

However, this team struggles to score a lot, and in particular when its best scorers are asked to play heavy minutes defending elite scorers on the other side of the ball. Ray and Paul need to be playing reduced minutes in the regular season and in the playoffs, Boston has to to have a TA-type defender on the bench. Even before TA left, I thought we needed a second guy to help him out with the Miami powerhouse. So we're down two, IMIO.

 With strong perimeter D, we CAN keep these guys out of the lane. We did it pretty regularly with LBJ this spring.

[FallGuy]

Look - I have to give MIA credit. They are a Great Team, on paper. They may win 50-55 games this season, especially taking advantage of the weaker opponents. Will probably win a few against us too, no doubt.

But when the chips are down (April-June 2011), MIA will struggle. They will face the best teams in a playoff series and will not be successful. Every team they face will be healthy and have that playoff experience.

MIA, sadly, will just have to wait their turn. No overnight success, here. Their roadblock(s) to LA will be in place for next two-three years, and they are Boston and ORL - with CHI and ATL giving them problems, too.

I feel like you're doing a lot of wishful thinking here.

I'll be very surprised if Miami wins less than 60 games this season. I expect they'll run over the league in the regular season.

Come playoff time, you suggest that every team they face will be healthy. How do you know that? Miami is more likely to be healthy than Boston, given the C's age and injury concerns.

The one area that may be an issue is their team chemistry - not that they'll play poorly together or face intrasquad squabbles - but that they'll have to learn how to operate together in high-pressure situations come April. The Celtics in 08 had the same issues. Wouldn't be surprised to see Miami struggle in the first round.