The holdup with Howard / Rasheed for a trade exception (merged)

[Jeff]

D. Aldridge has some interesting wrinkles into this

http://www.nba.com/news/features/aldridge.2010.freeagency/

After using its mid-level exception on free agent Jermaine O'Neal, and not being able to use its biannual exception after using it on Marquis Daniels last season, the Celtics would only be able to offer Howard the veteran's minimum of $1.146 million for next season.

Boston would like to use the contract of Rasheed Wallace, who has told the Celtics he will retire, to get a trade exception. If Boston sends Wallace's contract to another team -- which could remove the salary from its cap as long as Wallace stays retired -- for a draft pick, the Celtics could get a trade exception for as much as the $6.3 million Wallace was due to receive.

The problem for Boston is that even if it could get that exception, the Wizards can't execute a trade involving Howard until December under collective bargaining rules.

If I understand this right, this is because the Wiz renounced his rights, so he's essentially a free agent like anyone else and you can't sign someone else's free agent and then trade them (until Dec).  Still, seems confusing.  DA always has his stuff together though, so I'll defer to him.

by the way, the above link also talks about Howard wanting to re-sign with the Wiz.   ...um, why?

given this, I won't be surprised if Danny trades Sheed for a trade exception and then waits for a reason to use it

[billysan]

D. Aldridge has some interesting wrinkles into this

http://www.nba.com/news/features/aldridge.2010.freeagency/

After using its mid-level exception on free agent Jermaine O'Neal, and not being able to use its biannual exception after using it on Marquis Daniels last season, the Celtics would only be able to offer Howard the veteran's minimum of $1.146 million for next season.

Boston would like to use the contract of Rasheed Wallace, who has told the Celtics he will retire, to get a trade exception. If Boston sends Wallace's contract to another team -- which could remove the salary from its cap as long as Wallace stays retired -- for a draft pick, the Celtics could get a trade exception for as much as the $6.3 million Wallace was due to receive.

The problem for Boston is that even if it could get that exception, the Wizards can't execute a trade involving Howard until December under collective bargaining rules.

If I understand this right, this is because the Wiz renounced his rights, so he's essentially a free agent like anyone else and you can't sign someone else's free agent and then trade them (until Dec).  Still, seems confusing.  DA always has his stuff together though, so I'll defer to him.

by the way, the above link also talks about Howard wanting to re-sign with the Wiz.   ...um, why?

given this, I won't be surprised if Danny trades Sheed for a trade exception and then waits for a reason to use it

Thanx Jeff, this is interesting and opens up a lot of possibilities. Lots of players in the 6-7 million range that can help us out and the draft pick could be huge for the future. Danny may be holding out for the best offer here. That would make sense to me, but is probably wishful thinking.

[Lucky17]

D. Aldridge has some interesting wrinkles into this

http://www.nba.com/news/features/aldridge.2010.freeagency/

After using its mid-level exception on free agent Jermaine O'Neal, and not being able to use its biannual exception after using it on Marquis Daniels last season, the Celtics would only be able to offer Howard the veteran's minimum of $1.146 million for next season.

Boston would like to use the contract of Rasheed Wallace, who has told the Celtics he will retire, to get a trade exception. If Boston sends Wallace's contract to another team -- which could remove the salary from its cap as long as Wallace stays retired -- for a draft pick, the Celtics could get a trade exception for as much as the $6.3 million Wallace was due to receive.

The problem for Boston is that even if it could get that exception, the Wizards can't execute a trade involving Howard until December under collective bargaining rules.

If I understand this right, this is because the Wiz renounced his rights, so he's essentially a free agent like anyone else and you can't sign someone else's free agent and then trade them (until Dec).  Still, seems confusing.  DA always has his stuff together though, so I'll defer to him.

by the way, the above link also talks about Howard wanting to re-sign with the Wiz.   ...um, why?

given this, I won't be surprised if Danny trades Sheed for a trade exception and then waits for a reason to use it

Funny, I thought for a minute we were talking about Juwan Howard, LOL.

I follow the logic, but I don't see how Ainge would be able to find a team sufficiently under the cap to absorb Sheed's deal, and generate that trade exception.

I would think that it would be much easier to trade Sheed to a team looking to trim payroll.

[Who]

Josh Howard says he feels some loyalty towards the Wizards organization because they took him out of Dallas when things were bad there + showed a lot of faith in him.

[Jon]

Isn't there some rule involving a player being unable to be traded for a couple of months (hence the December thing) UNLESS it happens within the first 48 hours? 

Am I imagining this? 

[Lucky17]

Isn't there some rule involving a player being unable to be traded for a couple of months (hence the December thing) UNLESS it happens within the first 48 hours? 

Am I imagining this? 

Any player can be immediately re-traded, as long as other players are not packaged with him.

[Roy Hobbs]

Interesting.  Larry Coon emphasizes multiple times in his FAQ that a renounced player *can* be signed-and-traded if a team has sufficient cap space, so I'm not sure where Aldridge is getting his info from, or who is more accurate.

[Who]

So, a team cannot sign and trade a player after they renounced their rights? Even though they still have cap space and that player played for them the previous year?

I did not know that. It makes sense though.

So, this pretty much rules Josh Howard out as a Celtics target? Yeah?

[Roy Hobbs]

So, a team cannot sign and trade a player after they renounced their rights? Even though they still have cap space and that player played for them the previous year?

I did not know that. It makes sense though.

So, this pretty much rules Josh Howard out as a Celtics target? Yeah?

I trust Larry Coon on salary cap matters over David Aldridge.

After renouncing a player, the team is still permitted to re-sign that player, but must either have enough cap room to fit the salary, or sign the player using the Minimum Salary exception.  . . .

After renouncing a player, a team can still trade the player in a sign-and-trade agreement

A sign-and-trade deal can be made even with players who have been renounced, but cannot be made when the player is signed using the Mid-Level, Bi-Annual or Disabled Player exceptions.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q34

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q79

[Jeff]

agree with Roy - upon further investigation, I actually think D Aldridge might be wrong on this one.

[Eddie20]

David Aldridge Twitter
 

Knicks making a pitch to Josh Howard today; Howard still considering Wizards seriously, along w/Bulls, Cs. Story up soon on NBA.com

.

[MBunge]

Uh, why would any team trade a draft pick for Sheed in the first place?  Wouldn't it have to be something like Sheed and a 1st rounder or multiple 2nd rounders to a team under the cap in return for a single 2nd round pick or something?

Mike

[Gainesville Celtic]

Another possible way to use Rasheed's deal (assuming he really will retire) is to help a team get under the luxury tax.

We saw, for example, UTA give away Eric Maynor to OKC last year to get under the tax threshold.

Since we can take back 125%+100k from another team, a team up to $2M of the luxury tax could trade us a player(s) totalling $8M.

For example UTA is right near the tax level again and will likely go over it when filling out their roster (say they get to ~71.5M). And then DWill gets hurt and they're clearly out of the playoff hunt. With Millsap and Big Al up front, they could send Okur (and his $10M next year) for Rasheed and Avery Bradley and get under the luxury tax by about 200K.

[billysan]

Josh Howard says he feels some loyalty towards the Wizards organization because they took him out of Dallas when things were bad there + showed a lot of faith in him.

So this likely means he is considereing an offer from them but hasnt decided to accept it yet. Hoping they will sweeten the deal to keep him. I think he goes to a contender/playoff team quick like a bunny if he gets a decnt contract offer. Probably hasnt seen one yet except from the Wizards.

[Mr October]

So, a team cannot sign and trade a player after they renounced their rights? Even though they still have cap space and that player played for them the previous year?

I did not know that. It makes sense though.

So, this pretty much rules Josh Howard out as a Celtics target? Yeah?

I trust Larry Coon on salary cap matters over David Aldridge.

After renouncing a player, the team is still permitted to re-sign that player, but must either have enough cap room to fit the salary, or sign the player using the Minimum Salary exception.  . . .

After renouncing a player, a team can still trade the player in a sign-and-trade agreement

A sign-and-trade deal can be made even with players who have been renounced, but cannot be made when the player is signed using the Mid-Level, Bi-Annual or Disabled Player exceptions.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q34

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q79

Yup, I'll take Coon's cap knowledge over Aldrige any day.