What was Cleveland's role in James Leaving?

[Q_FBE]

Their GM made poor calls on some FA aquisitions and trades.

Mo Williams for 55 million dollars.

Delonte West???

Shaquille O'Neal??

Antwan Jameson was a clear blunder.

Their coach did a very poor job of managing personnel.

Lebron knew it just was not going to happen in Cleveland.

[sk7326]

Their GM made poor calls on some FA aquisitions and trades.

Mo Williams for 55 million dollars.

Delonte West???

Shaquille O'Neal??

Antwan Jameson was a clear blunder.

Their coach did a very poor job of managing personnel.

Lebron knew it just was not going to happen in Cleveland.

In 2007 they made the finals

In 2008 they barely lost a 7 game series to the eventual champion in a series where they outscored them

In 2009 they had the league's best record and made the semifinals, in 2010 they had the league's best record and lost to the East's finals rep

This was not the 2007 Minnesota Timberwolves.

I don't begrudge LeBron leaving - but to think he was prescient about the ability to win in Cleveland is silly.  The man is 25 years old!  As if he can't add a post up game?  As if he could not lead them to winning more? 

And his best win opportunity was Dallas if his people wanted to chase it hard: Dallas had a real sign and trade possibility, he could have played at Cowboys Stadium and Dirk Nowitzki would have been by far the best teammate he could have had. (Wade is a better player, but Nowitzki is the best skill set to complement Bron)

[Nerf DPOY]

I don't like saying this but Kobe could have won with the Cavs this year. So could younger bird, magic, MJ, or Duncan.

100% agreeance the cowtowing to this fraud continues.

Except when Kobe had such a team (with Odom and Butler) they were low seeds to out of the playoffs.  He didn't start really winning until Memphis gave them Gasol. 

The losing is the part of Kobe I respect.  That's the point that everyone appears to be missing.

I'm still missing it. What point did you make and when did I/we miss it? If you're trying to say that you respect Kobe for gutting it out with a less than elite supporting cast, I'll remind you of his mini public outburst trade request to Pluto, a flipping dwarf planet.

[LB3533]

Kobe's first season without Shaq and Phil, the Lakers won 34 games. Kobe had Odom and Butler as his next 2 best players.

The following two seasons, Kobe CARRIED the Lakers to the PLAYOFFS as a 7th seed out west winning 45 and 42 games respectively. Kobe also had the benefit of Phil Jackson as head coach. I would contend that the Lakers had worse talent in these two years since the Lakers basically swapped Caron Butler for Kwame Bustbrown. (Kobe's 3rd best player these two seasons was arguably Smush Parker.....think about that for a second).

The only reason the Lakers had a winning record was because 1. Kobe averaged 30+ points and 2. Phil was back coaching again.

Now for he Cavs....Mike Brown was their Head Coach. Brown isn't an awful coach, but really, he wasn't the coach of the Cavs. And Brown was and never will be a Phil Jackson.

That being said, Mike Brown coached the Cavs for 5 seasons winning games of 50, 50, 45, 66 & 61. The Cavs made the playoffs every year and never lost in the 1st Round like the Lakers have, twice & both times to the Phoenix Suns.

But for the first 3 seasons under Mike Brown, Lebron James had either Big Z or Larry freaking Hughes as his 2nd or 3rd best player.

That is god awful surrounding talent.

And for Lebron to make the Finals with that group: Marshall, Gooden, Pavlochic, Gibson, Eric Snow?

It could be argued that the Cavs shouldn't have gotten by the Pistons in the ECF that year. But it was Lebron who carried the Cavs in that Game 5 in the Palace of Auburn Hills.

Any time your 2nd or 3rd best player is either Mo Williams or Larry Hughes....you're fracked.

Simple as that.

[Eja117]

Poor Lebron. He only had JJ Hickson, Shaq, Jamison, Big Z and Varajoa in his front court.

And to think  MJ had the mighty front court of Luc Longley, 30 something-many druged-mentally unique Denis Rodman, and Bill Wenington.

Life is so unfair.

[Birdbrain]

I don't like saying this but Kobe could have won with the Cavs this year. So could younger bird, magic, MJ, or Duncan.

100% agreeance the cowtowing to this fraud continues.

Except when Kobe had such a team (with Odom and Butler) they were low seeds to out of the playoffs.  He didn't start really winning until Memphis gave them Gasol. 

The losing is the part of Kobe I respect.  That's the point that everyone appears to be missing.

I'm still missing it. What point did you make and when did I/we miss it? If you're trying to say that you respect Kobe for gutting it out with a less than elite supporting cast, I'll remind you of his mini public outburst trade request to Pluto, a flipping dwarf planet.

You're right you are still missing it.  Did he leave and go play with a better player or did he say get me some real talent.  I'm not kobe fan ( in fact I despise the dude) but, he went up 10 fold with the Queen's move.  For simple fact that he actually has won something... LJ wanted all the players on his roster he was defacto GM/Coach.  He has a horrible eye for talent which was apparent at the time but, Cleveland bent over backwards for this fraud.  I don't begrudge his decision to coattail it's his right.  It also my right to point it out incessantly.

[Nerf DPOY]

Poor Lebron. He only had JJ Hickson, Shaq, Jamison, Big Z and Varajoa in his front court.

And to think  MJ had the mighty front court of Luc Longley, 30 something-many druged-mentally unique Denis Rodman, and Bill Wenington.

Life is so unfair.

Dennis Rodman was unique.Unique in the sense that no one else in the league averaged as many rebounds per game as he did during his three years with the Bulls. Just like a snowflake.

Prior to the return of MJ and Rodman's era, The 93-94 Pippen led Bulls went 55-27 and lost in 7 games to the Knicks, who would go on to lose to Houston in the finals. I can understand thinking Jordan > LJ, but trying to claim that Lebron's supporting cast in Cleveland was better or even close to as good as MJ's is just preposterous.

[Eja117]

Poor Lebron. He only had JJ Hickson, Shaq, Jamison, Big Z and Varajoa in his front court.

And to think  MJ had the mighty front court of Luc Longley, 30 something-many druged-mentally unique Denis Rodman, and Bill Wenington.

Life is so unfair.

Dennis Rodman was unique.Unique in the sense that no one else in the league averaged as many rebounds per game as he did during his three years with the Bulls. Just like a snowflake.

Prior to the return of MJ and Rodman's era, The 93-94 Pippen led Bulls went 55-27 and lost in 7 games to the Knicks, who would go on to lose to Houston in the finals. I can understand thinking Jordan > LJ, but trying to claim that Lebron's supporting cast in Cleveland was better or even close to as good as MJ's is just preposterous.

Oh yeah. I almost forgot. MJ also had the mighty Steve Kerr, Jason Caffey, and Ron Harper as starting pg.

[nba is the worst]

I wonder if Lebron's decision not to trade Hickson for Amare because because if he won with Amare he wouldn't have the justification to leave for Miami.  He gave up in game 5 like he didn't want to win and threw off his jersey when they lost like it was his last game in Cleveland, which it was.  This whole thing seems so calculated.  I believe he made the decision to go to Miami long ago.

I agree (except for the Hickson/Amare part) - he quit in game 4 as well, and then again in the last 2 minutes of game 6.

That's what ticks me off about him saying that winning it what's important to him.

And to those saying the Cavs were built to beat the Magic, not the Celtics, I can only point to game 3, which gave the Cavs control of the series...