Danny Ainge HAS made an offer to Ray *link*

[banks336]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67862/20100705/celtics_have_made_offer_to_ray_allen/

The Celtics have made an offer to free-agent guard Ray Allen, but the length or value of the deal remains unknown.

"While Celtics GM Danny Ainge said an offer has been made to Ray Allen, he declined to reveal years or dollar amount," FanHouse's Chris Tomasson wrote on his Twitter page.

In my opinion if Ray was SERIOUS about coming back he would have handled the situation exactly how Pierce did... This reminds me of the James Posey situation.. I wouldn't be opposed to a sign and trade with the Heat, Knicks, Bulls, which are his likely destinations. Beasley, Wilson Chandler & Curry, Deng? All would be decent options but I'm not too sure about Deng.

Are you not sure about Deng as in the Bulls wouldn't trade him for Ray. Or are you not sure about Deng as in you don't like his game. I think Ray for Deng would be an absolute steal for us. Yeah, Pierce is too slow for two guard position these days, but Deng just has superior talent to Ray Allen at this point. Plus, Deng can play great D on LeBron, Wade, Carter, Kobe, and all the other usual suspects we will see in the playoffs.

I'm not sure about Deng's contract and health, he's a pretty good player because of his length but I saw zero improvement to his game from playing with chris duhon to Rose which doesn't make me think he would benefit by playing with Rondo.. I would much rather have Al Harrington or Corey Brewer on this team instead of him..
 And to the poster that said he would rather blow up the team instead of trading for VC or Gilbert, are you serious?? The improvement of this team with either one of those players would be huge because of their abilities to get to the line, fastbreak, and score by more ways other than relying on screens.. Pierce and VC are similar but you can't tell me two "pierce's" aren't better than a pierce/allen combo. Rondo/Carter/Pierce/KG/(Shaq?) That lineup has so many options   Â 

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My take is this:

If Ray wanted to retire a Celtic, and that was a major thing for him, it would be done already.  Seriously.  So let's keep that in mind, no matter what is said.  Actions speak loudest.

Danny saw this year that Ray's still a very good player on both sides of the ball, but in our offense, he's mainly a shooter/defender.  Or, more importantly, Rondo sets things up, Pierce, KG, and Rondo are all competent bailout shot guys, and Ray's major, main role is to shoot and defend.  That can be replaced without breaking the bank, so no need to break the bank on Ray's deal. 

Ray's value to the C's could legitimately be less than it might to another team that might need more of what he has to offer (do we need his veteran leadership?  we've got that covered.  Defense?  Um, no.  Ball handling or playmaking?  Not really.  we just need him to shoot, and score.)

[Jon]

My take is this:

If Ray wanted to retire a Celtic, and that was a major thing for him, it would be done already.  Seriously.  So let's keep that in mind, no matter what is said.  Actions speak loudest.

Danny saw this year that Ray's still a very good player on both sides of the ball, but in our offense, he's mainly a shooter/defender.  Or, more importantly, Rondo sets things up, Pierce, KG, and Rondo are all competent bailout shot guys, and Ray's major, main role is to shoot and defend.  That can be replaced without breaking the bank, so no need to break the bank on Ray's deal. 

Ray's value to the C's could legitimately be less than it might to another team that might need more of what he has to offer (do we need his veteran leadership?  we've got that covered.  Defense?  Um, no.  Ball handling or playmaking?  Not really.  we just need him to shoot, and score.)

I totally disagree.  I think Danny and Ray both want to see what his market value is.  Ray doesn't want to take 6 million a year to find that New York would've given him twice as much and Danny doesn't want to pay him 10 million a year to find out that no one would've given him more than the MLE. 

Also, I think Ray does a lot for this team.  During the regular season he averaged more minutes than PP.  Why?  Because he does more than shoot or defend.  While I'd hardly call him a playmaker, he is a reliable ball handler that can bring the ball up against opposing 2-guards.  Given that we didn't have a reliable backup much of the season, this was important. 

And without even going further down this road, what options do we really have but to re-sign him?  Give the team's age, it looks like the C's are going to have to bring back the core, plus do well with the Sheed trade, the MLE, and some minimum contracts to make another at a title.  Losing Ray pretty much takes us out of contention. 

Of course there could be a sign and trade; however, there are a few catches to that:

1) Many teams who want him will have cap room already, mitigating the need for them to give us anything.

2) Rebuilding teams aren't going to want him, hurting our chances of getting young stars. 

3) If we trade with a team over the cap, we're going to have to take back (close to) equal salary.  That means that if the C's don't want to pay Ray 10 million, they're going to have to want to pay whoever is coming back close to that number.  And I can't think of many players who would be coming back at that number who would help us more than Ray. 

[banks336]

My take is this:

If Ray wanted to retire a Celtic, and that was a major thing for him, it would be done already.  Seriously.  So let's keep that in mind, no matter what is said.  Actions speak loudest.

Danny saw this year that Ray's still a very good player on both sides of the ball, but in our offense, he's mainly a shooter/defender.  Or, more importantly, Rondo sets things up, Pierce, KG, and Rondo are all competent bailout shot guys, and Ray's major, main role is to shoot and defend.  That can be replaced without breaking the bank, so no need to break the bank on Ray's deal. 

Ray's value to the C's could legitimately be less than it might to another team that might need more of what he has to offer (do we need his veteran leadership?  we've got that covered.  Defense?  Um, no.  Ball handling or playmaking?  Not really.  we just need him to shoot, and score.)

I totally disagree.  I think Danny and Ray both want to see what his market value is.  Ray doesn't want to take 6 million a year to find that New York would've given him twice as much and Danny doesn't want to pay him 10 million a year to find out that no one would've given him more than the MLE. 

Also, I think Ray does a lot for this team.  During the regular season he averaged more minutes than PP.  Why?  Because he does more than shoot or defend.  While I'd hardly call him a playmaker, he is a reliable ball handler that can bring the ball up against opposing 2-guards.  Given that we didn't have a reliable backup much of the season, this was important. 

And without even going further down this road, what options do we really have but to re-sign him?  Give the team's age, it looks like the C's are going to have to bring back the core, plus do well with the Sheed trade, the MLE, and some minimum contracts to make another at a title.  Losing Ray pretty much takes us out of contention. 

Of course there could be a sign and trade; however, there are a few catches to that:

1) Many teams who want him will have cap room already, mitigating the need for them to give us anything.

2) Rebuilding teams aren't going to want him, hurting our chances of getting young stars. 

3) If we trade with a team over the cap, we're going to have to take back (close to) equal salary.  That means that if the C's don't want to pay Ray 10 million, they're going to have to want to pay whoever is coming back close to that number.  And I can't think of many players who would be coming back at that number who would help us more than Ray. 

I disagree with your 1st part because Rondo and Pierce didn't test their market value, they didn't worry about what the top players made, they took very reasonable offers and im sure KG would take the same approach as them if he had the opportunity again. This Ray Allen situation reminds me so much of Posey's... Ellis, VC are both reasonable upgrades/ options because it would be easier filling his position than Perk due to the ammount of options at the 2 position. 

[birdwatcher]

My take is this:

If Ray wanted to retire a Celtic, and that was a major thing for him, it would be done already.  Seriously.  So let's keep that in mind, no matter what is said.  Actions speak loudest.

Danny saw this year that Ray's still a very good player on both sides of the ball, but in our offense, he's mainly a shooter/defender.  Or, more importantly, Rondo sets things up, Pierce, KG, and Rondo are all competent bailout shot guys, and Ray's major, main role is to shoot and defend.  That can be replaced without breaking the bank, so no need to break the bank on Ray's deal. 

Ray's value to the C's could legitimately be less than it might to another team that might need more of what he has to offer (do we need his veteran leadership?  we've got that covered.  Defense?  Um, no.  Ball handling or playmaking?  Not really.  we just need him to shoot, and score.)

I totally disagree.  I think Danny and Ray both want to see what his market value is.  Ray doesn't want to take 6 million a year to find that New York would've given him twice as much and Danny doesn't want to pay him 10 million a year to find out that no one would've given him more than the MLE. 

Also, I think Ray does a lot for this team.  During the regular season he averaged more minutes than PP.  Why?  Because he does more than shoot or defend.  While I'd hardly call him a playmaker, he is a reliable ball handler that can bring the ball up against opposing 2-guards.  Given that we didn't have a reliable backup much of the season, this was important. 

And without even going further down this road, what options do we really have but to re-sign him?  Give the team's age, it looks like the C's are going to have to bring back the core, plus do well with the Sheed trade, the MLE, and some minimum contracts to make another at a title.  Losing Ray pretty much takes us out of contention. 

Of course there could be a sign and trade; however, there are a few catches to that:

1) Many teams who want him will have cap room already, mitigating the need for them to give us anything.

2) Rebuilding teams aren't going to want him, hurting our chances of getting young stars. 

3) If we trade with a team over the cap, we're going to have to take back (close to) equal salary.  That means that if the C's don't want to pay Ray 10 million, they're going to have to want to pay whoever is coming back close to that number.  And I can't think of many players who would be coming back at that number who would help us more than Ray. 

I disagree with your 1st part because Rondo and Pierce didn't test their market value, they didn't worry about what the top players made, they took very reasonable offers and im sure KG would take the same approach as them if he had the opportunity again. This Ray Allen situation reminds me so much of Posey's... Ellis, VC are both reasonable upgrades/ options because it would be easier filling his position than Perk due to the ammount of options at the 2 position. 

Perk's position (as decent as he's played it) is pretty one dimensional and he accepts his role well. Ray plays both ways, is known as one of the best clutch shooters of his era and is a great role model and locker room guy for any team. I'd say any one we can afford/obtain at this point is a downgrade--the only "upgrade" we could attain is youth/less salary/yrs.

[Jon]

My take is this:

If Ray wanted to retire a Celtic, and that was a major thing for him, it would be done already.  Seriously.  So let's keep that in mind, no matter what is said.  Actions speak loudest.

Danny saw this year that Ray's still a very good player on both sides of the ball, but in our offense, he's mainly a shooter/defender.  Or, more importantly, Rondo sets things up, Pierce, KG, and Rondo are all competent bailout shot guys, and Ray's major, main role is to shoot and defend.  That can be replaced without breaking the bank, so no need to break the bank on Ray's deal. 

Ray's value to the C's could legitimately be less than it might to another team that might need more of what he has to offer (do we need his veteran leadership?  we've got that covered.  Defense?  Um, no.  Ball handling or playmaking?  Not really.  we just need him to shoot, and score.)

I totally disagree.  I think Danny and Ray both want to see what his market value is.  Ray doesn't want to take 6 million a year to find that New York would've given him twice as much and Danny doesn't want to pay him 10 million a year to find out that no one would've given him more than the MLE. 

Also, I think Ray does a lot for this team.  During the regular season he averaged more minutes than PP.  Why?  Because he does more than shoot or defend.  While I'd hardly call him a playmaker, he is a reliable ball handler that can bring the ball up against opposing 2-guards.  Given that we didn't have a reliable backup much of the season, this was important. 

And without even going further down this road, what options do we really have but to re-sign him?  Give the team's age, it looks like the C's are going to have to bring back the core, plus do well with the Sheed trade, the MLE, and some minimum contracts to make another at a title.  Losing Ray pretty much takes us out of contention. 

Of course there could be a sign and trade; however, there are a few catches to that:

1) Many teams who want him will have cap room already, mitigating the need for them to give us anything.

2) Rebuilding teams aren't going to want him, hurting our chances of getting young stars. 

3) If we trade with a team over the cap, we're going to have to take back (close to) equal salary.  That means that if the C's don't want to pay Ray 10 million, they're going to have to want to pay whoever is coming back close to that number.  And I can't think of many players who would be coming back at that number who would help us more than Ray. 

I disagree with your 1st part because Rondo and Pierce didn't test their market value, they didn't worry about what the top players made, they took very reasonable offers and im sure KG would take the same approach as them if he had the opportunity again. This Ray Allen situation reminds me so much of Posey's... Ellis, VC are both reasonable upgrades/ options because it would be easier filling his position than Perk due to the ammount of options at the 2 position. 

But in the case of Rondo, I think you're taking a revisionist point of view, forgetting that when he signed his new deal there were many on this board who thought we dramatically overpaid for him.  Given his performance then and the summer craze going on right now, it seems like he did the heroic thing.  However, at the time Rondo may darn well have thought he was getting better than he could've gotten on the open market.  And I daresay that's probably the case, given that it wouldn't have hurt to try. 

I also am not convinced that Pierce did the C's some giant favor by staying.  Might he have gotten more on the open market?  Sure.  But might he have also gone out without negotiating with the C's, found that no one was going to give him more than 3 years and 12 million?  Sure. 

I think Ray's different.  I think he and the C's probably think he's worth somewhere in the 7-10 million dollar range over 2-3 years.  He also probably thinks the C's are likely to match what another team puts up within reason.  If that's the case, why settle? 

You guys may be right, he may walk.  I just don't think his behavior (or Posey's for that matter) necessarily indicate(d) that he is going to leave.  I think he's in a much different situation than Pierce and Rondo. 

[incoherent]

Ray said he would take a cut to resign here earlier in the year.. but maybe that was during the middle of us losing to every other team.

[timepiece33]

Outside of Cleveland, the teams that Ray has a "reported" interest in have cap room.  He can choose where he is going without having to do a S&T.  Unless the team is not in the East, he has no incentive to do a S&T period.  Not sure why it is being brought up at all.