Is Pierce's contract a benchmark for Ray's?

[birdwatcher]

We all pretty much know that Ray has to wait to really make a proper decision. Yes he could walk, we could re-sign, or even sign & trade. Does Pierce's 15 mil per year set the bar for what Ray wants? Will Ray really take 5-7 million less than Paul? We all have our own thoughts, but I don't think Ray feels he's a lesser player than Paul, or at least not a lesser one that deserves 10 mil to be ceiling for his annual salary. How much does he ask? 12-15m, 11-13m, or does it depend on the scenario? And how many years will someone give him (we know it will be 3 or 4)?

[the_Bird]

We all pretty much know that Ray has to wait to really make a proper decision. Yes he could walk, we could re-sign, or even sign & trade. Does Pierce's 15 mil per year set the bar for what Ray wants? Will Ray really take 5-7 million less than Paul? We all have our own thoughts, but I don't think Ray feels he's a lesser player than Paul, or at least not a lesser one that deserves 10 mil to be ceiling for his annual salary. How much does he ask? 12-15m, 11-13m, or does it depend on the scenario? And how many years will someone give him (we know it will be 3 or 4)?

Ray's ultimate contract will be based on whatever figure he can negotiate with Miami, New York, Cleveland, whoever's got the wherewithall to sign him.

DANNY, I think, has a top-line figure in mind, and that's clearly a number that's less than Pierce's $15M.  We can argue about who might be a better player by the end of their contracts (Pierce's game could well regress more than Ray's, who could Reggie Miller it for a long time).  But, he'll never be worth the same in terms of value to the franchise.

Lose Ray Allen, we all start thinking about how to replace him - trade for Barbosa, sign Mike Miller, whatever.

Lose Paul Pierce, the whole face of the franchise is gone. 

So, if New York were to offer Ray a 3/$45M contract, I think Danny lets him walk, because if Pierce is worth $15M then Ray Allen *must* be worth some figure less than that to him.

[LooseCannon]

I think everyone who isn't a total nutjob agreed that Ray Allen deserved more than John Salmons but less than Joe Johnson.

I think the real benchmarks will be that Ray should get more than either Josh Childress or Mike Miller, both of whom should get more than the MLE.

[JSD]

The undetermined market will dictate the amount Allen makes. Pierce was loyal to the Celtics and didn't wait for the free agent "shakeout", so his contract will have little to no barring on what Ray Allen will get. Once pieces such as James and Wade start to fall, we'll have a better understanding of what the Celtics are up against.

[birdwatcher]

It seems like it would be a tough pill to swallow for Ray if he was offered half the contract as Pierce. Especially as part of "the big 3". I think the only team he'd play for 8-10 mil a year with is one with any combo of the top 2 or 3 FA where he'd pretty much be a lock for another ring. I feel like he has to look at Paul's contract because it really does illustrate his value on the Celtics and any other team trying to to plug him into a similar role.

[Who]

No, Ray Allen isn't in the same stratosphere as Paul Pierce. Not anymore.

I think the real benchmarks will be that Ray should get more than either Josh Childress or Mike Miller, both of whom should get more than the MLE.

Yeah, I like those names, I think they are good benchmarks for Ray Ray.

[radiohead]

The undetermined market will dictate the amount Allen makes. Pierce was loyal to the Celtics and didn't wait for the free agent "shakeout", so his contract will have little to no barring on what Ray Allen will get. Once pieces such as James and Wade start to fall, we'll have a better understanding of what the Celtics are up against.

This is a very good point. TP for you sir. Pierce knew what he wanted and got it done. From that alone, it was obvious that Paul wanted to remain a Celtic. He didn't care where the top free agents went before making a decision. He knew what his priorities were and didn't allow them to get swayed with all the free agent talk going around. I just wish Ray would do the same and get a deal done asap so we could concentrate on putting our bench together. I know it would be unfair to compare PP with Ray, but PP just showed us how it truly is to bleed celtic green.

[JSD]

The undetermined market will dictate the amount Allen makes. Pierce was loyal to the Celtics and didn't wait for the free agent "shakeout", so his contract will have little to no barring on what Ray Allen will get. Once pieces such as James and Wade start to fall, we'll have a better understanding of what the Celtics are up against.

This is a very good point. TP for you sir. Pierce knew what he wanted and got it done. From that alone, it was obvious that Paul wanted to remain a Celtic. He didn't care where the top free agents went before making a decision. He knew what his priorities were and didn't allow them to get swayed with all the free agent talk going around. I just wish Ray would do the same and get a deal done asap so we could concentrate on putting our bench together. I know it would be unfair to compare PP with Ray, but PP just showed us how it truly is to bleed celtic green.

Ideally Allen would sign here ASAP and let Ainge concentrate on putting pieces around our returning starting 5. However, to be fair, Allen was willing to talk extension all season long when Ainge wasn't interested. DA, even in retrospect, made the right business/GM move by keeping options open. Allen is now doing much of the same and approaching his free agency like a good business man should.

My point is, Pierce has never had to deal with the business end of being a Celtic, so the loyalty was never in question and has always been both ways. It would be unfair to expect the same from Ray.

Right back at yeah with the TP.

[Jon]

While I'm not sure the money is a benchmark, since Ray is already 35 (just a year younger than Paul will be when he finishes his 4 year deal), I do think that the C's may be more willing to go 3 years than they were before.  Had Paul stayed with his old deal, I think Danny may have driven a hardline at 2 years.  But now, with the C's unlikely to really be able to go after a big free agent until Paul retires, what harm is there in giving Ray a 3rd year? 

Also, by giving Paul his contract extension, the C's have essentially gone "all in" on the next year or two.  To let Ray walk would totally destroy that and negate the whole point in re-signing Pierce. 

So I wouldn't be surprised to see the C's go a good deal in the way of matching offers.  In fact, while I think Ray can be had for less, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the C's would match a 3 year 45 million dollar deal. 

[jambr380]

It is always interesting to see what people think of our players compared to others.

Personally, I think Ray will be had for much less than Pierce's contract. It may get into the third year, but if so, it will probably be in the 8-9 mill range. I still think Danny is looking at a 2 year/20 mill contract.

As for his real market value, I am no so sure. I really like a guy like Salmons and probably think they are similar players at this point. Miller is a good outside shooter, but seems considerably worse than Salmons. As has been said, Pierce is getting the lifetime Celtic contract award, too- so there is some inflation that Ray won't get.

No matter what, I hope we don't begin to slowly regress.

[hwangjini_1]

bit of a bump since pierce will sign for about $15 million a year and ray allen for $10 million a year.

i have a question for those wise and all-knowing nba salary wizards at cb.

the celtics will go into next year paying a substantially reduced salary to pierce and allen, correct?

pierce was schedule to make $19,976,000, the saving the team almost $5  million next year

allen made $18,777,000, saving the team $8,777,000ish next year.

how does this nearly $14 million affect ainge's ability to pay for free agents now? thanks in advance.

[twinbree]

bit of a bump since pierce will sign for about $15 million a year and ray allen for $10 million a year.

i have a question for those wise and all-knowing nba salary wizards at cb.

the celtics will go into next year paying a substantially reduced salary to pierce and allen, correct?

pierce was schedule to make $19,976,000, the saving the team almost $5  million next year

allen made $18,777,000, saving the team $8,777,000ish next year.

how does this nearly $14 million affect ainge's ability to pay for free agents now? thanks in advance.

I don't know much about these things but my sense is it doesn't really affect this as we'll probably still be over the cap. It just ends up saving us some money with the luxury tax I think

[JSD]

bit of a bump since pierce will sign for about $15 million a year and ray allen for $10 million a year.

i have a question for those wise and all-knowing nba salary wizards at cb.

the celtics will go into next year paying a substantially reduced salary to pierce and allen, correct?

pierce was schedule to make $19,976,000, the saving the team almost $5  million next year

allen made $18,777,000, saving the team $8,777,000ish next year.

how does this nearly $14 million affect ainge's ability to pay for free agents now? thanks in advance.

Since we're over the cap it doesn't really matter. All we have is the MLE which is $5.7 million (roughly) to spend on the open market. Remember too, Rondo's new contract starting at $9 million just kicked in, so the savings from Ray is eliminated.

[Rashi]

bit of a bump since pierce will sign for about $15 million a year and ray allen for $10 million a year.

i have a question for those wise and all-knowing nba salary wizards at cb.

the celtics will go into next year paying a substantially reduced salary to pierce and allen, correct?

pierce was schedule to make $19,976,000, the saving the team almost $5  million next year

allen made $18,777,000, saving the team $8,777,000ish next year.

how does this nearly $14 million affect ainge's ability to pay for free agents now? thanks in advance.

Since we're over the cap it doesn't really matter. All we have is the MLE which is $5.7 million (roughly) to spend on the open market. Remember too, Rondo's new contract starting at $9 million just kicked in, so the savings from Ray is eliminated.

So right now in order to fill up rest of our weak spots...we have a MLE, Sheed's contract and vet min to offer? And we can also do s8T?

[JSD]

bit of a bump since pierce will sign for about $15 million a year and ray allen for $10 million a year.

i have a question for those wise and all-knowing nba salary wizards at cb.

the celtics will go into next year paying a substantially reduced salary to pierce and allen, correct?

pierce was schedule to make $19,976,000, the saving the team almost $5  million next year

allen made $18,777,000, saving the team $8,777,000ish next year.

how does this nearly $14 million affect ainge's ability to pay for free agents now? thanks in advance.

Since we're over the cap it doesn't really matter. All we have is the MLE which is $5.7 million (roughly) to spend on the open market. Remember too, Rondo's new contract starting at $9 million just kicked in, so the savings from Ray is eliminated.

So right now in order to fill up rest of our weak spots...we have a MLE, Sheed's contract and vet min to offer? And we can also do s8T?

You got it. And to add to twinbree's point, ownership will not be as hesitant to use those options as we are less effected by the luxury tax.