Carmelo Anthony on the trading block? Would you trade Rondo for Melo?( POLL)

[Who]

I don't know, this is a tough one. Could go either way on it.

I like Rondo's upside more than Carmelo's but I value having a 30ppg threat, a true go-to scorer, very highly and wonder if having that weapon is an easier building block to retool around ... not sure, I could go either way here.

[BballTim]

I agree with what Moranis is saying in a sense, not about trading Rondo for Melo, but that point guards as your main building piece don't win championships. Its very rare for a team to win a championship when built around a point guard. It can happen but its not very likely.  Here is a link I found that seemed like they did their research on the subject. 

http://www.hornets247.com/journals/2010/01/27/can-a-team-build-a-championship-contender-around-a-point-guard

So there it is, 62+ years of NBA history, and three teams won championships with the PG being the centerpiece. Those teams won a total of 6 titles, so there is hope.

The only other team I can think of that you could make a case for would be the teams in Detroit that Billups played on, but they weren't really a title contender until they got Rasheed in  that midseason trade. 

  Who's the last small forward besides Larry to be the best player on a title team? It's no more common than for point guards. Aside from Kobe and MJ it probably hasn't happened for a shooting guard in at least 25 years. Neither Rondo nor Melo  are on a level close to Bird, Johnson, Jordan, or even Kobe. Neither of them are likely to be the centerpiece of a title team. Either of them could be an important piece to a title team.

  Melo can put up better stats. Rondo can help others put up better stats or he can put up pretty decent stats on his own. He's still growing as a player and he's already done a number of things in the playoffs that few have ever been able to do.

[Birdbrain]

I agree with what Moranis is saying in a sense, not about trading Rondo for Melo, but that point guards as your main building piece don't win championships. Its very rare for a team to win a championship when built around a point guard. It can happen but its not very likely.  Here is a link I found that seemed like they did their research on the subject. 

http://www.hornets247.com/journals/2010/01/27/can-a-team-build-a-championship-contender-around-a-point-guard

So there it is, 62+ years of NBA history, and three teams won championships with the PG being the centerpiece. Those teams won a total of 6 titles, so there is hope.

The only other team I can think of that you could make a case for would be the teams in Detroit that Billups played on, but they weren't really a title contender until they got Rasheed in  that midseason trade. 

As I mentioned in my earlier post like any other stat there are serious holes in 6 Championships point. 

First off getting to the Finals would be good enough for me regarding the players mentioned to be traded for him most have never made it to the finals and Rondo has twice.  So Rondo wins there.

But putting that aside don't Gary Paryton, Stockton, and KJ get any credit for losing to the best player of all time?  Who by the way wasn't big or small just really good.  Give me jordan I'll live with an average PG.  Melo no ugh no.

[Moranis]

Tony Parker is the only PG to win a NBA title in the same year he was an all star since Isiah Thomas' Pistons won back to back titles.

Until Rondo this season, Jason Kidd (twice) and John Stockton (once) are the only PG's to even appear in the finals in the same year they were an all star since Isiah Thomas in 87/88.


EDIT: I was doing this off of memory as I had looked it up in the past.  It is possible I forgot someone.

Yeah like why did you stop at 87 and I guess Stockton losing some finals to Jordan doesn't count.  Also I'm having a hard time believing Magic didn't go to AS game in 88, 89, or 90.  Gary Payton and KJ lost to Jordan as well...

I think your stat has some holes.

I had Stockton, he was an all star in 96/97 but was not in 97/98.  Kevin Johnson was not an all star the year the Suns lost in the finals.  Gary Payton was in 95/96 so I forgot him and obviously Magic was as well, but I always treat Magic differently since he was 6'9" and not your typical PG.

As I said I did it from memory and didn't go back and re-check, but Payton is the only guy that I had missed that is your typical PG (magic just doesn't really count since he has PF size - I realize he is a PG, but still not really the same as these other guys).

[Moranis]

 No, Billups wasn't 4th best. And all I'm seeing is "you can win a title without a great point guard". I agree. You can also win a title without a good/great shooting guard. You can also win a title without a good/great small forward. Which was my point. Great players at any spot can bring you a title (Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Shaq). Lacking a player of that magnitude you need a top big and a few other very good players. Those players can be point guards, small forwards, shooting guards, or one of those and another Big. It doesn't matter.

  It's also worth pointing out that the last 2 point guards to win finals mvps in the last 20 years (Billups and Parker) weren't the best (or arguably the best) player on their respective teams. They're the only players in the last 20 years that really fit that category. While you basically dismiss these because "they weren't the best player on those teams", it's also a sign that point guards are able to make more of an impact on those playoff series than their skill level dictates they should.

  If Pippin hadn't been fortunate enough to have MJ on his team than, aside from Pierce, those "historically significant" small forwards wouldn't have an elite player (besides possibly PP) win the title in the last 20 years.

Billups was the fourth best player on that team throughout the season.  He had a pretty good post season and finals, no question, but Hamilton was the leading scorer in both the regular and post season (also had the highest PER in the post season), Ben was by far the leading rebounder and the defensive prescence, and Sheed was the emotional and physical leader of that team (as well as the regular season PER king for them).  Billups really didn't start to take over as the Pistons best player until the 05/06 season two years after the title run. 

[falconj]

trade rondo for melo

trade PP for chris paul

problem solved lol

man, if this does happen i think im gonna move to Boston for the next 10 years

im sick of cheering for celtics when i'm surrounded by lame laker fans  (Living LA now)

[Brendan]

The only question is:

Who is more likely to be the best player in a series? I think either are good enough to carry a team as the player throughout a season, but Melo is probably a little more likely to carry a series for you, because Rondo has a singular weak link in his game, that I don't have confidence in him fixing (shooting, ft%) - of all those PGs, none could be exploited so easily. I fear if he's playing slow or loses a step with age, his peak years will be shorter than an elite wing - so even though Melo is older, he'll have more peak seasons.

Additionally I think you have a shot at picking up an elite PG later - I could see Deron or Paul become free agents or Paul get traded.

BTW - I don't think DEN would want Rondo - they have a very good PG and a young replacement... maybe a three team deal...

[K.J.]

  Who's the last small forward besides Larry to be the best player on a title team? It's no more common than for point guards. Aside from Kobe and MJ it probably hasn't happened for a shooting guard in at least 25 years. Neither Rondo nor Melo  are on a level close to Bird, Johnson, Jordan, or even Kobe. Neither of them are likely to be the centerpiece of a title team. Either of them could be an important piece to a title team.

  Melo can put up better stats. Rondo can help others put up better stats or he can put up pretty decent stats on his own. He's still growing as a player and he's already done a number of things in the playoffs that few have ever been able to do.

Indeed, you were right.  According to http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5956, centers and then point guards are the most pivotal positions for playoff success.  Small forwards are last, followed by power forwards.

In any case, although somewhat outdated, according to http://realgm.net/src_fromtherafters/225/20081221/a_melo_behind_the_superstars/, Carmelo Anthony is perhaps overrated.

[RJ87]

No.
I love Melo, he's one of my fave players. If there was a way to get him here to play WITH Rondo (sign and trade Pierce or Ray - yes, I said it...) I'd be all over it.

But finding a PG like Rondo - who can run a team the way he does - is not exactly easy. He's played quarterback to 3 Hall of Fame players and kept them all relatively happy. That's no small feat for a young player.

[Witch-King]

Yes, I would. Have Nate (or some other 'veteran' pg...Iverson maybe??) play point, have Pierce play sg and have Ray come of the bench like Ginobili w/ the Spurs.

 We'd still have to find a decent back-up center though, so this is clearly only a theoretical situation...

Yeah good mix there w/ Iverson and Melo. 

We could also try and acquire Shaq, or Brad Miller to play point until Perkins is healthy again.

[wdleehi]

Unless we are talking about a big man, the position doesn't matter. 


The dominate big man still rules the NBA. 




But to me, the point of this trade is nullified.  The Celtics want Melo to stay.  The only way he is likely to resign early (avoiding the FA wooing) is to keep Rondo who makes Melo want to stay. 


Celtics need both in this type of trade.  (the one year left on the deal is whole reason this is being talked about)

[KG_ended_Bias]

Unless we are talking about a big man, the position doesn't matter. 


The dominate big man still rules the NBA. 




But to me, the point of this trade is nullified.  The Celtics want Melo to stay.  The only way he is likely to resign early (avoiding the FA wooing) is to keep Rondo who makes Melo want to stay. 


Celtics need both in this type of trade.  (the one year left on the deal is whole reason this is being talked about)

Couldn't we just trade Rondo for Melo. Let Pierce walk opening up a little FA cap space to woo his buddy Lebron who could then Rival The Greatest of Greatest stars in basketball history being that it would be the luster of the Celtics? Lebron is like a PG which now you wouldnt need a conventional PG, and he would have his Pippen in Carmelo Anthony. Lebron would take maybe less money in a overall deal, 2-3 mil less a yr, but he would make that up in the endorsements he would garner being in a Big Market and possibly winning titles on the greatest franchise in basketball history. If we could trade Rondo tonight for Melo I would do in a heartbeart and not think twice!

[wdleehi]

Unless we are talking about a big man, the position doesn't matter. 


The dominate big man still rules the NBA. 




But to me, the point of this trade is nullified.  The Celtics want Melo to stay.  The only way he is likely to resign early (avoiding the FA wooing) is to keep Rondo who makes Melo want to stay. 


Celtics need both in this type of trade.  (the one year left on the deal is whole reason this is being talked about)

Couldn't we just trade Rondo for Melo. Let Pierce walk opening up a little FA cap space to woo his buddy Lebron who could then Rival The Greatest of Greatest stars in basketball history being that it would be the luster of the Celtics? Lebron is like a PG which now you wouldnt need a conventional PG, and he would have his Pippen in Carmelo Anthony. Lebron would take maybe less money in a overall deal, 2-3 mil less a yr, but he would make that up in the endorsements he would garner being in a Big Market and possibly winning titles on the greatest franchise in basketball history. If we could trade Rondo tonight for Melo I would do in a heartbeart and not think twice!

That is an awful lot of "what ifs"




Put it this way, if Melo agreed to an extension with the Celtics as part of the trade, then yes, make the trade.


If not, is giving up Rondo for a possible rental player a great idea?

[thirstyboots18]

Carmelo is one of my favorite non Celtics players, but no way would I trade Rajon Rondo for him....even if you threw in a Center!   

[KG_ended_Bias]

Unless we are talking about a big man, the position doesn't matter. 


The dominate big man still rules the NBA. 




But to me, the point of this trade is nullified.  The Celtics want Melo to stay.  The only way he is likely to resign early (avoiding the FA wooing) is to keep Rondo who makes Melo want to stay. 


Celtics need both in this type of trade.  (the one year left on the deal is whole reason this is being talked about)

Couldn't we just trade Rondo for Melo. Let Pierce walk opening up a little FA cap space to woo his buddy Lebron who could then Rival The Greatest of Greatest stars in basketball history being that it would be the luster of the Celtics? Lebron is like a PG which now you wouldnt need a conventional PG, and he would have his Pippen in Carmelo Anthony. Lebron would take maybe less money in a overall deal, 2-3 mil less a yr, but he would make that up in the endorsements he would garner being in a Big Market and possibly winning titles on the greatest franchise in basketball history. If we could trade Rondo tonight for Melo I would do in a heartbeart and not think twice!

That is an awful lot of "what ifs"




Put it this way, if Melo agreed to an extension with the Celtics as part of the trade, then yes, make the trade.


If not, is giving up Rondo for a possible rental player a great idea?

Rondo is a guy who I believe will only be as good as his conterparts and can't carry a club. After this upcoming 2010 season and maybe even this next season, although Rondo may become a better player, he cant be a go to guy which every team needs. We cant trust him at crunch time and he can be gameplanned out of a series. You couldnt gameplan Carmelo out ever! His production wouldnt sway and he is a more attractive marquee and lure for others to join than ROndo as much as I love Rondo. He is only as good as those 3 are making driving lanes attracive for him to do his thing. I say sell HIGH and his stock is as HIGH as it will ever be right now. I hope im wrong on Rondo but my gut tells me different.