Why so many guards?

[ScoobyDoo]

First of all, I generally have more confidence in Ainge's big man selections than I do his selections of guards. Outside of Rondo, his draft picks on guards haven't been that good, which is suprising as he played the position.

Rondo: Great
JR Giddens: No comment necessary
DWest: Head case
TAllen: Love his D but...
Marcus Banks: No comment necessary
Gerald Green: No comment necessary

The above being said, two things I just don't understand:

1. Why keep trying to draft combo guards and "hope" they can learn the point position? Delonte, Banks, now this kid Bradley. He took Rondo, a real "point guard" and lo and behold, Rondo can actually play the point.

Stop tyring to put a square peg into a round hole for ****. Draft "point guards" to play the "point guard" position. Period.

2. I love Rondo but have been irritated every year that Ainge has refused to just find some good, vet point guard who can play behind Rondo for 10-15 minutes for the entire season. Creat some continuity at the point behind Rondo!

Stop this **** complete BS of getting a point guard three quarters of the way through the season and then "try" to work him in, "try" to get him to learn the system in time for the playoffs and if not, play Rondo 45 minutes a night because he couldn't learn the system in time or we realise he isn't the right fit. It's just completely assinine.

Three off seasons have come and gone and I've seen no "legit" back ups brought in for either Pierce or Rondo, who start with the team at the "beginning" of the season and work together all season. We've never had it for Rondo and the only year we had a legit small forward back up for Pierce was with Posey and that worked out pretty well.

Otherwise, both Pierce and Rondo get ground down.

Secondly...I thought it was relaly hard to find good, athletic seven footers who have some physical ability.

I really wanted us to take DeAndre Jordan with the 30th instead of Giddens, and let him develop. He could have been great along side of Perkins.

This year, I was really hoping we'd take Hassan Whiteside instead of another rokkie point who probably won't play and we're trying to turn into a point guard.

I'd much rather have taken Whiteside.

Going back to DeAndre Jordan, I'm not sure how much any of you have seen him play, but he's got ability and he's developing. Athletic seven footers with a decent motor are very, very hard to come by. Combo guards, dime a dozen...

I think DeAndre Jordan and Big baby coming off the bench this year for Perkins and Garnett would have looked pretty nice.

Even nice if we now added another talented seven footer in Whiteside.

Worst case scenario, if these guys develop well, you have a much nicer trade asset than a with a combo guard.

Size wins in the playoffs, Perkins is down and we kjeep drafting guards.




   

[wdleehi]

Rondo - all-star
West - starter/6th man on a strong playoff team
TA - 4th/3rd swingman on a good team
Banks - a third PG that has gifts.
Green - immature swingman that had potential
JR - late draft junk.

Two busts.   


I don't have an issue with the pick.   Celtics have needed a backup PG that could play SG next to Rondo.  If he is rated higher on the Celtics board then the rest of the field at that time, draft him.

[PosImpos]

I agree with you about needing consistency in backups for Rondo and Paul - especially since we rely on them more than anybody else late in the game so they need to be rested.

On the other hand, I think you have to remember that big men taken outside of the lottery are more often than not busts.  Danny took the best player available, and history tells us that's the best strategy for drafting.  

DeAndre Jordan still hasn't produced much at all in the NBA, and probably wouldn't have seen the floor any more than Giddens did.  He'd be on the Knicks right now, or out of the league.

Hassan Whiteside supposedly has character issues, and his one current talent is shot blocking.  I doubt we would have been able to use him much for the next two to three years.  

Danny is apparently looking to compete next year, so selecting major projects who probably won't contribute for a couple years doesn't help us at all.  

So I think you have to say that Danny drafted the best player available but also probably went with a guy who would actually contribute sooner.  If he had felt that James Anderson, Damion James, or any of the other wings still left in the draft could contribute, he probably would have taken them.  But we have to trust Danny's belief that Bradley is more talented and has more upside than any of those guys.

Rondo - all-star
West - starter/6th man on a strong playoff team
TA - 4th/3rd swingman on a good team
Banks - a third PG that has gifts.
Green - immature swingman that had potential
JR - late draft junk.

Two busts.   

You forgot Walker (unless we're only talking first rounders).  I guess you could classify Walker as a "4th or 5th wing with scoring ability but poor defense."

[Chris]

When you are drafting late, there are two types of players that have a relatively high chance of becoming NBA players: undersized big men, and guards (particularly "combo guards", who are really undersized SG's).

Generally, guys who have good size for their position either go in the lottery, or are not good basketball players.  Danny realizes, the way to get good basketball players late in the draft is to look for guys who may not be prototypical size, but just know how to play.

This is why he has hit so well with guys like West, Allen, Powe, Davis, and Gomes.

Danny has really had a very high rate of success with guys like that, and his only real busts have been when he has swung for the fences with guys like JR, Banks, and Green, who have NBA bodies, but not NBA heads (or skills).

[wdleehi]

When you are drafting late, there are two types of players that have a relatively high chance of becoming NBA players: undersized big men, and guards (particularly "combo guards", who are really undersized SG's).

Generally, guys who have good size for their position either go in the lottery, or are not good basketball players.  Danny realizes, the way to get good basketball players late in the draft is to look for guys who may not be prototypical size, but just know how to play.

This is why he has hit so well with guys like West, Allen, Powe, Davis, and Gomes.

Danny has really had a very high rate of success with guys like that, and his only real busts have been when he has swung for the fences with guys like JR, Banks, and Green, who have NBA bodies, but not NBA heads (or skills).

Or guys that have other issues.

Rondo - uncoachable.  Was in a system that didn't fit his game.
TA - major injury issues.

[ScoobyDoo]

I forgot Gabe Pruitt...another bust.
Dwest, yeah, I like him but he'a total loose cannon.
Banks: Gifts? C'mon, we both know that's a stretch.
TA: I actually like Tony, with all his warts.
Green, Giddens, Pruitt

That's four Busts in Banks, Green, Giddens and pruitt
One Home run with Rondo
Two doubles with Dwest and TA

Look, I'll get behind this kid and I think he probably does have talent.

I know Jordan has done that much yet but watching him he has the size and athleticism to develop into something good. I didn't know about the character issues with Hassan but his profile didn't mention much about it.

I just feel like athletic size is hard to come by...

I'm very interested to see what Ainge has in mind to fill the gap we have in size up front. We clearly need another good big man.

We have one mid level contract and we need a good wing and a good big.


  

[ScoobyDoo]

Yeah, I'll buy that Chris, good point and I do agree actually with the non prototypical guys late in the draft who are guys that can simply play ball.

Baby, Gomes, DWest, TA, Powe and I bet Harangody will be the same, a pleasant suprise.

I have lingering concerns about our lack of size right now though, espeically when we need both a big and a wing to be serious about making a run next year and only the mid level to work with.

A Trade maybe? 

[Chris]

Yeah, I'll buy that Chris, good point and I do agree actually with the non prototypical guys late in the draft who are guys that can simply play ball.

Baby, Gomes, DWest, TA, Powe and I bet Harangody will be the same, a pleasant suprise.

I have lingering concerns about our lack of size right now though, espeically when we need both a big and a wing to be serious about making a run next year and only the mid level to work with.

A Trade maybe? 

It's impossible not to have concerns about their lack of size.  However, that was not going to change with the draft.  Unless they could get into the lottery, there was no one with legit size that would have been ready to play next year.  All of the big men later in the draft were major projects.

I am sure Danny will be addressing the size issue through free agency, as well as possibly trades. 

Lets be honest, the C's are in a tough spot.  Without Perk and Sheed, they have a huge hole to fill up front.  But that is something that simply cannot be rectified through the draft.

[Jon]

I also think that the guard position is easiest to fill.  Quite frankly, they're the closest to average size people out there.  Thus, a great percentage of people can play that spot, leading to a greater talent pool.  It's hard enough to find someone 7 feet tall to begin with, let alone someone that size who can play.  

[BballTim]

I forgot Gabe Pruitt...another bust.
Dwest, yeah, I like him but he'a total loose cannon.
Banks: Gifts? C'mon, we both know that's a stretch.
TA: I actually like Tony, with all his warts.
Green, Giddens, Pruitt

That's four Busts in Banks, Green, Giddens and pruitt
One Home run with Rondo
Two doubles with Dwest and TA

  Calling 2nd round picks busts is silly. A lot of those players never even make NBA rosters. If you think of GG as a sf (which he pretty much is, right?) then the only player taken before #30 who hasn't worked out well is Banks.

[Chris]

I also think that the guard position is easiest to fill.  Quite frankly, they're the closest to average size people out there.  Thus, a great percentage of people can play that spot, leading to a greater talent pool.  It's hard enough to find someone 7 feet tall to begin with, let alone someone that size who can play.  

Absolutely.  Which is why the ones who can play are almost never available outside the lottery.

[wdleehi]

I forgot Gabe Pruitt...another bust.
Dwest, yeah, I like him but he'a total loose cannon.
Banks: Gifts? C'mon, we both know that's a stretch.
TA: I actually like Tony, with all his warts.
Green, Giddens, Pruitt

That's four Busts in Banks, Green, Giddens and pruitt
One Home run with Rondo
Two doubles with Dwest and TA

Look, I'll get behind this kid and I think he probably does have talent.

I know Jordan has done that much yet but watching him he has the size and athleticism to develop into something good. I didn't know about the character issues with Hassan but his profile didn't mention much about it.

I just feel like athletic size is hard to come by...

I'm very interested to see what Ainge has in mind to fill the gap we have in size up front. We clearly need another good big man.

We have one mid level contract and we need a good wing and a good big.


  

Yes, Banks has physical gifts.

He has good size and great speed.

And 2nd rounders?  Guys that rarely make NBA rosters long term? 

[ScoobyDoo]

I'm as a big a supporter of Ainge as anyone, but he has been far less successful at picking guards than he has at picking bigs.

And I do think it's fair to call a second round pick a bust ( Gabe Pruitt). Unless, conversely you don't think it's fair to call second round picks a success ( Powe, Baby, Gomes...).

Ainge did great with Rondo
DWest and TAllen are decent players

Banks is a complete bust, he has never contributred significantly to anywhere, with multiple chances on multiple teams in multiple situations. If it wernt' for his contract, he'd be out of the league.

Ainge has done better with his bigs: Jefferson, Perkins, Gomes, Baby, Powe, all good players with marginal draft positions.

Perkins was a 27th pick, he panned out alright but it took about 4-5 years.

I'll be curious to see where DeAndre Jordan is in 3-4 more years; he has a motor, he's athletic and a true seven footer. I still wouldn't have minded taking a flyer on another seven footer though in Whiteside.

I had no expectations that a seven footer would contribute right away but much like with Perkins, it's nice to have them developing in the wings.

We'll see, maybe this kid Bradley will turn into a nice chip. But as someone else said, points and wings are plentiful, especially decent back ups who you only need to play 10-15 minutes a night, behind Rondo in this case.

[Mr October]

West and Tony Allen were good picks. Anything you get out of the second round is gravy, it has been that way for every franchise for as long as I can remember.

Ainge has an excellent batting average in the draft compared to other GMs, based on where he has drafted.

I'm ready to give this kid a big ol' chance. He's got great physical tools.

[Mr October]

When you are drafting late, there are two types of players that have a relatively high chance of becoming NBA players: undersized big men, and guards (particularly "combo guards", who are really undersized SG's).

Generally, guys who have good size for their position either go in the lottery, or are not good basketball players.  Danny realizes, the way to get good basketball players late in the draft is to look for guys who may not be prototypical size, but just know how to play.

This is why he has hit so well with guys like West, Allen, Powe, Davis, and Gomes.

Danny has really had a very high rate of success with guys like that, and his only real busts have been when he has swung for the fences with guys like JR, Banks, and Green, who have NBA bodies, but not NBA heads (or skills).

Tp for nailing it.