Author Topic: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea  (Read 6464 times)

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Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2010, 03:18:52 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Baby Sheed and #19

for

Biendris and #6

Then #6 and Perk

for

#5, if it's Cousins

The bigs would be Erden, Cousins, KG, and Biendris. The fifth big can be a veteran minimum guy. Brad Miller, Ben Wallace, etc. I don't know a guy who is the fourth or fifth big on a contender. An old vet would be most likely for a chance to win and it  might have to be a guy who is bought out in March. Financially Cousins/Biendris = Perk/Baby.

The wings will be Ray (re-signed), Pierce, Ta or MLE, and possibly Michael Finley at vet. min.

The point guard will be Nate or mle, and Rondo.

I think in this scenario we re-sign either TA or Nate and use the MLE for replacing the guy we didn't keep.


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Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2010, 03:19:17 PM »

Offline Chris

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I would love to add Biedrins if we could get him for Sheed and Perk (or Sheed and Perk +19 for Biedrins and #6).  I still don't know if it is realistic though.  And I also am thinking we would have heard more rumors about the C's offering Sheed's expiring deal by now, if it were actually on the table.  I have a feeling teams want something more concrete before taking on that deal.

Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2010, 04:43:36 PM »

Offline Brendan

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Sheed + Perk + S&T to match salary + whoever we pick @19 (by GSW request) + 3 million (to cover the sign and trade)

for Ellis, Biedrins, + whoever GSW drafts for us at #6

I'd absolutely do that. I think Beidrens could be moved for other players if you wanted anyways - Minny might take him to dump AJ (if they were willing to take Randolph, and can't find short money)

You could end up with:

Rondo / Ellis
Ray / Ellis
Pierce / Ray
KG / BBD
Jefferson

You need to add a defensive center and a tall SF with #6 pick and MLE. Very doable. Could keep Nate too, but wouldn't be strictly necessary.

Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2010, 04:54:21 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Ellis, Biedrins, #6
for
Sheed, Baby, Perk, TA at 3 mill per year.
As it was already noted, you can't really trade picks in sign and trade deals.

How so? Do you have a reference? I know you can't sign and trade a new draft pick, but i think you can give a sign and traded player in return for a draft pick. This is how Rashard ended up in orlando, it was s&t rashard for a second rounder.

Regardless, if this is a technicality, it's easily circumvented by doing one deal with the players, then a second deal with a swap of the #6 for a conditionally protected 2nd round pick that GS would never see, if necessary.

Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2010, 05:03:33 PM »

Offline Mr October

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Ellis, Biedrins, #6
for
Sheed, Baby, Perk, TA at 3 mill per year.
As it was already noted, you can't really trade picks in sign and trade deals.

How so? Do you have a reference? I know you can't sign and trade a new draft pick, but i think you can give a sign and traded player in return for a draft pick. This is how Rashard ended up in orlando, it was s&t rashard for a second rounder.

Regardless, if this is a technicality, it's easily circumvented by doing one deal with the players, then a second deal with a swap of the #6 for a conditionally protected 2nd round pick that GS would never see, if necessary.

Technically you can't trade a guy who isn't yet a free agent on draft day. Teams can circumvent this by drafting player X on draft day and having a hand shake deal to be completed 2 weeks later on July 8th. But this would also requie that the sign and trade piece locks into this deal prematurely - and not allow himself to play the market. In other words it doesn't happen.

In the Lewis case, wasn't he signed and traded for a future pick? You can do that like crazy with second rounders, once you are in the free agent season.

Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2010, 05:20:36 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Ellis, Biedrins, #6
for
Sheed, Baby, Perk, TA at 3 mill per year.
As it was already noted, you can't really trade picks in sign and trade deals.

How so? Do you have a reference? I know you can't sign and trade a new draft pick, but i think you can give a sign and traded player in return for a draft pick. This is how Rashard ended up in orlando, it was s&t rashard for a second rounder.

Regardless, if this is a technicality, it's easily circumvented by doing one deal with the players, then a second deal with a swap of the #6 for a conditionally protected 2nd round pick that GS would never see, if necessary.

Technically you can't trade a guy who isn't yet a free agent on draft day. Teams can circumvent this by drafting player X on draft day and having a hand shake deal to be completed 2 weeks later on July 8th. But this would also requie that the sign and trade piece locks into this deal prematurely - and not allow himself to play the market. In other words it doesn't happen.

In the Lewis case, wasn't he signed and traded for a future pick? You can do that like crazy with second rounders, once you are in the free agent season.

Gotcha. Makes sense, it needs to be a handshake type of deal.

Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2010, 05:33:57 PM »

Offline Jon Niednagel

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Golden State trades: Andris Biedrins, Brandan Wright, #6 for Rasheed Wallace, Kendrick Perkins, and cash

Boston trades: Rasheed Wallace, Kendrick Perkins, #19, and cash considerations for Al Jefferson and #4 (Cousins).

Minnesota trades: Al Jefferson and #4 for Andris Biedrins, Brandan Wright, #6 and #19

Everybody is happy!
“Being a Celtic is, every decision you make is about the team. Every cut you make is about the team. Every pass you make is about the team. You take yourself out of it. It’s not for everyone. If you don’t want to win, don’t want to play team basketball, and it’s more about you then you’re probably not a Celtic." Doc 2010

Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2010, 05:52:58 PM »

Offline wiley

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Golden State trades: Andris Biedrins, Brandan Wright, #6 for Rasheed Wallace, Kendrick Perkins, and cash

Boston trades: Rasheed Wallace, Kendrick Perkins, #19, and cash considerations for Al Jefferson and #4 (Cousins).

Minnesota trades: Al Jefferson and #4 for Andris Biedrins, Brandan Wright, #6 and #19

Everybody is happy!


If I'm reading correctly:  Minny ends up with Biedrins, Wright, Perkins, Sheed, #6, #19, and cash :o

but I don't always read correctly!

Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2010, 05:53:36 PM »

Offline JSD

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Biedrinis FT% just kills me... Imagine him and Rondo on the same team?  :-[

Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2010, 05:54:40 PM »

Offline Cman

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I would rather have Perkins. Biedrins doesn't play defense.

With Nellie as head coach, he's never been asked to play defense.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2010, 05:56:09 PM »

Offline Jon Niednagel

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Golden State trades: Andris Biedrins, Brandan Wright, #6 for Rasheed Wallace, Kendrick Perkins, and cash

Boston trades: Rasheed Wallace, Kendrick Perkins, #19, and cash considerations for Al Jefferson and #4 (Cousins).

Minnesota trades: Al Jefferson and #4 for Andris Biedrins, Brandan Wright, #6 and #19

Everybody is happy!


If I'm reading correctly:  Minny ends up with Biedrins, Wright, Perkins, Sheed, #6, #19, and cash :o

but I don't always read correctly!

Sorry if I didn't make it clear.

Minny receives AB, BW, 6 & 9.

Golden State receives Perk, Wallace, and cash.

BOS receives AJ and #4
“Being a Celtic is, every decision you make is about the team. Every cut you make is about the team. Every pass you make is about the team. You take yourself out of it. It’s not for everyone. If you don’t want to win, don’t want to play team basketball, and it’s more about you then you’re probably not a Celtic." Doc 2010

Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2010, 06:12:20 PM »

Offline paintitgreen

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Golden State trades: Andris Biedrins, Brandan Wright, #6 for Rasheed Wallace, Kendrick Perkins, and cash

Boston trades: Rasheed Wallace, Kendrick Perkins, #19, and cash considerations for Al Jefferson and #4 (Cousins).

Minnesota trades: Al Jefferson and #4 for Andris Biedrins, Brandan Wright, #6 and #19

Everybody is happy!


I don't see why Golden State gives up the 6th pick just to unload Biedrins, especially since there's no certainty on Sheed retiring or saving them money. And Minnesota might miss out on Wes Johnson by dropping from 4 to 6 making them less interested in doing it. But I actually see the all around logic here which I can't in a lot of the other trade proposals I've read in the past 24 hours so TP.


Minnesota doesn't save much money though when I think about it a little more carefully. Jefferson has 3 years, $42 million left ($13-$14-$15); Biedrins has 4 years, $36 million ($9 each year); Wright makes $3.4 mil this year then restricted free agency. Minnesota saves another $600K or so a year by dropping from 4 to 6, but adds $1.2 mil for the 19. Or they sell it for a few million. Or combine it with their 16th pick and 23rd to try to move up to take a guy they want at 10-14.

They save $1.2 mil this year to swap out Al for Biedrins - more of a center (even if I don't think he's good) - and Wright. They also save $5 mil in 2011-12 and $6 mil in 2012-13, but have to pay $9 mil extra in 2013-14. Overall savings of about $3.2 million, plus potential income if they sell the 19th pick. If they still get Johnson at 6, it makes some sense for them since they've got to unload Al and can start Love at the 4 alongside Biedrins.  

For Golden State, they save about $4.5 mil this year to swap out Biedrins and the 6th pick (won't include Wright since they didn't even play him last year) for Perkins and Rasheed plus probably $3 million in cash considerations. They save more if Sheed retires and/or takes a buyout for less than the $6.2 he's owed this year. They'd save the $9 million on Biedrins for the three following seasons, minus whatever they pay to Perkins if they keep him (let's say $7-8 mil per year), minus $6.9 mil if Sheed doesn't retire and keeps his option, plus whatever they'd be paying to the 6th pick had they kept him. I'd estimate they save about $3 mil per year in 2011-12, 12-13 and 13-14 to have Perk instead of Biedrins and the 6th pick. Perk is better than Biedrins for the 25-30 minutes each would pay, but G State then has to pay somebody else for the remaining 20-25 minutes instead of a cheap draft pick. Really uncertain, and I suppose it depends on how they value the 6th pick. If the Warriors want somebody there, I don't think it's enough savings to make this worthwhile.

For the Celtics, they take on $4.3 million extra this year to have Al and Cousins instead of Perk, Sheed and the 19th pick. Make that $8.6 with the luxury tax. Assuming $6.9 to Sheed in 2011-12 and $7 mil per year to Perk, they'd incur additional spending of probably $3-4 million in 2011-12 and $11-13 mil in 2012-13. Boston also assumes great risks in terms of Jefferson's knee and Cousins' attitude. Bear in mind, though, if Jefferson's knee ends up permanently damaged there could be insurance money available, and Perk has knee and shoulder issues of his own.

Bottom line, Boston does it despite the risk because of the potential to have two excellent young post scorers and Cousins's NBA-ready potential superstar talent. Minnesota might do it if they could be sure Johnson would still be there but that's questionable and the savings might not be enough to satisfy them. Golden State I think would say no.  
Go Celtics.

Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2010, 06:36:58 PM »

Offline Jon Niednagel

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Paint- You put much more thought into this trade than I did, and for that you get a TP back.

Obviously, the whole thing is predicated on Sheed retiring and GS willing to go for the salary dump. Otherwise it would be a very painful, unlubricated experience for them.

Also, I'm not sure Minny is all that concerned about saving money in the deal as long as they improve their team without costing money.
“Being a Celtic is, every decision you make is about the team. Every cut you make is about the team. Every pass you make is about the team. You take yourself out of it. It’s not for everyone. If you don’t want to win, don’t want to play team basketball, and it’s more about you then you’re probably not a Celtic." Doc 2010

Re: Biedrinis Available - Trade Idea
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2010, 06:57:04 PM »

Offline paintitgreen

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Ha! I've seen so many that seem so absurdly one-sided that I wanted to think about one that seemed to me to have logic behind it.

One of the things I like is that it's not completely dependent on Sheed retiring immediately or not requesting a buyout since Golden State still gets SOME salary relief even if he has to be paid his full 2010-11 salary in a buyout. Obviously, I don't think they do it if he doesn't retire, but there's some logic there in any event. Or maybe I just fell into the trap I've criticized others for and made the logic work in my head because we got Cousins in the deal.
Go Celtics.