Time to blow it up

[Jaehos]

The way i see it, the Celtics have two options: Plan on the lockout and just run the same team out there for the next 2 years (with one of those likely being a lockout).  You'll sell tickets, wander through the regular seasons, and try to make some noise in the playoffs.  But the window of a championship is probably closed.

or blow it up.  My blow-it-up scenario is admittedly wishful thinking that requires many things to fall into place.

1) Convince Lebron to sign in Chicago.  We'll trade Kevin Garnett to Chicago for Luol Deng and Hinrich.  I believe that saves Chi some money too to help sign Lebron. 

Chicago would have a core of: Rose, Whomever, Lebron, Garnett, and Noah.  With Tom Thibs coaching.

2) Tell Pierce he needs to either Opt out, or we're trading him to the Wolves for Jefferson and Gomes.  The T-wolves are looking to rebuild and getting rid of Jefferson and Gomes contracts while reloading with all their draft picks makes sense for them.  The suffer through Pierce's deal for a year, or could turn around and trade him for parts, or sign and trade him at the end of his contract.

Boston would then have: Rondo, Hinrich, Deng, Jefferson, Perk with Big Baby and Gomes off the bench.

Boston would also still have Ray Allen's rights (keep him or sign and trade him) and the likely retirement contract of Rasheed Wallace.   Both of those are very valuable to flesh out the roster.  I'd probably keep Ray for reasonable dollars, and try to move Wallace's contract.  But if we're looking to build for the future, moving Ray for younger legs is probably the way to go.

[wdleehi]

Celtics were within 5 points in game 7 of another title.



It would have to be better then this to implode the team.

[libermaniac]

That starting 5 is not likely a championship contender.  Why not just play out the next two years, without offering ANYONE except Perk a contract beyond the '11/'12 season.  Then, they'll have Rondo and Perk (and whoever they draft the next two years ... hope we get lucky) and tons of cap space for that offseason.  Start the rebuilding then.

[More Banners]

I wouldn't be in a hurry to blow it up completely if I were confident that signing a young scoring wing that could start in a year or two with the MLE was a sure thing.

But...

Our frontcourt is screwed right now.  Perk coming off injury sometime mid-season, KG wearing down, Sheed out the door, and a career bench player in BBD is what we've got.  A draft pick isn't going to make that front line a contender next season.  The MLE might, but then we're still weak on the wing.  We need TWO MLE-level players to contend next year, and the "right" players at that.  I've thought through scenarios where that happened and we had a bench of Nate, Foye, Outlaw, and Warrick, but the point is that we need several breaks at once to make it work.

The big question is whether the fans, management, and of course Celticsbloggers can separate the emotional attachment to a player like Pierce to trade him to make a better team.

I'd pull the trigger in a second, with gratitude of what Paul has put in, and knowledge that he has been very well compensated for his efforts.  We don't owe him anything.

[Mr October]

I don't understand the logic behind thinking that after 1 more year, this starting lineup, which crushed the Eastern competition, will suddenly struggle to even make noise in the 2011 playoffs.

They crushed the Heat, Cavs and Magic. And came within 5 points of winning game 7 on the road.

[Chris]

I don't understand the logic behind thinking that after 1 more year, this starting lineup, which crushed the Eastern competition, will suddenly struggle to even make noise in the 2011 playoffs.

They crushed the Heat, Cavs and Magic. And came within 5 points of winning game 7 on the road.

Well, personally, my thinking isn't that this lineup is going to fall apart.  Instead, my thinking is that given the ages (and recent injury history) of the core of this team, the chances of them having as much luck healthwise as they did this past year, to have everyone get healthy right at the right time, is incredibly slim.

We saw in 2009 how missing one of the key players can submarine championship chances, and then we saw with Perkins that the luck can run out very quickly as well.

Now, every team has this same worry, however, the older and more injury prone your core players are, can really limit your chances for a championship.  Not to mention, teams like the C's, who really need everyone in their core to be healthy have a distinct disadvantage over teams with guys like Lebron or Kobe, since they can still win it all, even with some injuries in their starting lineup, as long as their star is healthy.

However, I do not think the C's should blow it up this summer.  Mainly because I don't think it is realistic to do it in a constructive way.  I don't think the C's players have enough value around the league to make moves that will put the team in a better position for the future than waiting another year or two, as contract come off the books, and become more valuable expiring contracts.  Right now, their best bet is to try to keep the core together, add a couple younger pieces, and then bide their time.

[Mr October]

I don't understand the logic behind thinking that after 1 more year, this starting lineup, which crushed the Eastern competition, will suddenly struggle to even make noise in the 2011 playoffs.

They crushed the Heat, Cavs and Magic. And came within 5 points of winning game 7 on the road.

Well, personally, my thinking isn't that this lineup is going to fall apart.  Instead, my thinking is that given the ages (and recent injury history) of the core of this team, the chances of them having as much luck healthwise as they did this past year, to have everyone get healthy right at the right time, is incredibly slim.

We saw in 2009 how missing one of the key players can submarine championship chances, and then we saw with Perkins that the luck can run out very quickly as well.

Now, every team has this same worry, however, the older and more injury prone your core players are, can really limit your chances for a championship.  Not to mention, teams like the C's, who really need everyone in their core to be healthy have a distinct disadvantage over teams with guys like Lebron or Kobe, since they can still win it all, even with some injuries in their starting lineup, as long as their star is healthy.

However, I do not think the C's should blow it up this summer.  Mainly because I don't think it is realistic to do it in a constructive way.  I don't think the C's players have enough value around the league to make moves that will put the team in a better position for the future than waiting another year or two, as contract come off the books, and become more valuable expiring contracts.  Right now, their best bet is to try to keep the core together, add a couple younger pieces, and then bide their time.

I'm in agreement. The potential for injury is a concern. And I also agree that with KG's unmovable contract, the Celtics best option may be to minor retool this summer and position the team for a 2011 or 2012 blowup.

[Andy Jick]

Remember when we kept saying in 2002 that that team was a "mirage?"

Well, that's my feelings toward this current team.  I don't think we can repeat next season what we did this season.  I really believe this year was more mentally draining on these guys than they'd want to admit because it took so much effort for them to get there.  I just don't think they can do it again...it's a trap to believe otherwise...  (I believe our head coach even shares these thoughts privately.)

I agree with the OP and would consider getting out the dynamite...

[More Banners]

Remember when we kept saying in 2002 that that team was a "mirage?"

Well, that's my feelings toward this current team.  I don't think we can repeat next season what we did this season.  I really believe this year was more mentally draining on these guys than they'd want to admit because it took so much effort for them to get there.  I just don't think they can do it again...it's a trap to believe otherwise...  (I believe our head coach even shares these thoughts privately.)

I agree with the OP and would consider getting out the dynamite...

Painful to agree, but TP.  I think we're definitely more talented that the 02 team, but that team made it as far as it did on solid team defense (Dick Harter, guru) and a gimick offense based on a lot of jumpshooting (Delk, Rodgers, plus PP and #8).  That's sort of what the '10 team came down to, with huge scoring droughts if the jumpers didn't fall, few 2nd change opportunities...

We're a classic tweener, a long shot to win it, but hard to upgrade.  I'd be manning the phones if I were Danny, though.

[Moranis]

I made this proposal in a different thread I think it would apply here and better help position the team

Chris Paul & Okafor

for

Rondo, Perkins, Davis, & Wallace

Paul is better then Rondo and they are a similar age.  Okafor and Perkins are essentially the same player and Okafor is actually the healthier of the two.  Okafor is just 2 years older and still in his prime and his contract is pretty similar to what Perkins is going to be looking for with his extension.  Wallace is likely going to retire and Davis, while I love his energy is someone that can be replaced (Ty Thomas perhaps).

C's then look to sign and trade Ray Allen to a team that needs a SG, but doesn't quite have the cap space (or that wants to use it elsewhere).  Some possible destinations (other pieces can be mixed in) and likely what comes back Knicks (Curry & Chandler), Bulls (Hinrich), Atlanta (Marvin or double sign & trade Childress), Portland (Camby and/or Webster), Miami (beasley), OKC (green and sefalosha), etc.  Certainly other teams like Orlando might have a desire for a guy like Ray Allen.  

[Mr October]

Remember when we kept saying in 2002 that that team was a "mirage?"

Well, that's my feelings toward this current team.  I don't think we can repeat next season what we did this season.  I really believe this year was more mentally draining on these guys than they'd want to admit because it took so much effort for them to get there.  I just don't think they can do it again...it's a trap to believe otherwise...  (I believe our head coach even shares these thoughts privately.)

I agree with the OP and would consider getting out the dynamite...

The 2010 team had a lot more size and could hold their own against Cleveland, Orlando and almost LA.

The 2002 team would have been bounced by Cleveland in round 2. The 2002 team had no size and was playing against a conference that was as bad as I had ever seen it.

You do have a strong point with the mentally drained idea though.

[Chris]

Remember when we kept saying in 2002 that that team was a "mirage?"

Well, that's my feelings toward this current team.  I don't think we can repeat next season what we did this season.  I really believe this year was more mentally draining on these guys than they'd want to admit because it took so much effort for them to get there.  I just don't think they can do it again...it's a trap to believe otherwise...  (I believe our head coach even shares these thoughts privately.)

I agree with the OP and would consider getting out the dynamite...

Absolutely, this team is on the downside.  However, as taking on Raef's contract showed us, patience is often better than just saying "lets blow it up" and making questionable moves.

I think Danny has known for a while what this team is, and he has been open to all options.  However, has learned a lot from 2002, and understands that cap space is gold, and you need to be very careful when making deals to rebuild.  

So, while I feel very confident he would pull the trigger if the right deal presented itself, there is absolutely no hurry.  

[Q_FBE]

Bleh! I don't know what to think here.

A part of me wants to keep the team together but if Doc steps down, then the energy of the current players to work hard goes down and we are in for a tough season.

The lineup suggested by the original poster indicates a one and done playoff team from here to 2020. I don't think we are looking for that either.

[Andy Jick]

Remember when we kept saying in 2002 that that team was a "mirage?"

Well, that's my feelings toward this current team.  I don't think we can repeat next season what we did this season.  I really believe this year was more mentally draining on these guys than they'd want to admit because it took so much effort for them to get there.  I just don't think they can do it again...it's a trap to believe otherwise...  (I believe our head coach even shares these thoughts privately.)

I agree with the OP and would consider getting out the dynamite...

The 2010 team had a lot more size and could hold their own against Cleveland, Orlando and almost LA.

The 2002 team would have been bounced by Cleveland in round 2. The 2002 team had no size and was playing against a conference that was as bad as I had ever seen it.

You do have a strong point with the mentally drained idea though.

But the 2002 team didn't have to play those teams...  They only had to face the competition put in front of them, not those of 8 years later.

[get_banners]

the gloom and doom talk is odd - we got healthy and beat everyone in the east and were 5 points away from winning it all. yes, everyone will be a year older, but KG will be healthier, we've got a better pick (19 in a deep draft, possibly another first if we can buy one, as teams are selling), and 1 and maybe 2 MLE contracts (if sheed retires and we're able to trade his contract for somebody else to save them cap money and get us a decent player). things aren't that bleak.