Author Topic: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen  (Read 10322 times)

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Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2010, 11:49:21 AM »

Offline Who

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I am guessing that these teams' interest in Tony Allen is overstated.

I can't see Tony getting anywhere near an MLE offer this summer.

Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2010, 12:23:42 PM »

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Red used to say there are only two parts of the game:  offense and defense.  I prefer players with some, or at least one, skill at both.

Tony isn't that guy.

Pair him in a starting unit at 30 minutes and he'll have 4 TO's.

Put him out there with Rondo, Perk, and an offensively declining KG, and we'll lose games 65-60, but play great defense.

Only two parts of the game...simple.

you're saying it would be that bad after watching this year's playoffs?  He was slowed by an ankle injury in the middle of some awesome play.....Utah.  Now there's a mistake free team.  Didn't get far though.

Since he started contributing more regularly this season and doing some good things, I've been of the opinion that his success is due directly to him having a limited, but clear, role in limited minutes.  Keeping him in that position, I think, is the key to him being thought of as a good NBA player.  Some players fill a role, and then get better/develop, and the role expands.  After 6 years in the league, Tony is who he is:  a 15 minute defensive bench role player.  He's good at that.  That's why he makes $2.5 million a year.  He can't do more than that, which is why no team should pay him $6 million/year.

In that amount of time, he can avoid touching the basketball.  In 30 starters minutes, teams will key the defense to funnel him the ball, then buy squares as to which fan in the 3rd row catches a pass that game.  Unfortunately, several people will likely have to split the pot, as the ball will be going everywhere.

okay you've got me down to 25 minutes.  I think at 25 minutes his weakness can be hidden, which is not to say there won't be turnovers, but there are always turnovers anyway....we practically led the league in them with Tony on the bench.  

But basically, my point is that I think the total effect he has on a game would outweigh his mistakes......

Ray would come off the bench, play more minutes and finish games....

For people who can't stomach ugly-looking mistakes on offense, I agree it's not the direction you go....(you keep him in his current role).

I can stomach the ugly turnovers as long as the overall TO numbers aren't worse/catastrophic....


TP for a fine blend of thoughtfulness and persistence...

But a lineup that featured 3 non-offensive threats, or only two offensive players that need to be stopped, isn't going to score enough to win.  I like Rondo, and Tony, and Perk, too.  But together, the team would have no balance at all offensively.  There would be no room in the paint for Rondo to penetrate; he'd dribble into traps with passing lanes clogged.  No good.

I do hope there is interest in TA out there.  I could see him in Denver doing well.  I hope we can get someone worthwhile back, too.

Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2010, 12:36:31 PM »

Offline wiley

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Red used to say there are only two parts of the game:  offense and defense.  I prefer players with some, or at least one, skill at both.

Tony isn't that guy.

Pair him in a starting unit at 30 minutes and he'll have 4 TO's.

Put him out there with Rondo, Perk, and an offensively declining KG, and we'll lose games 65-60, but play great defense.

Only two parts of the game...simple.

you're saying it would be that bad after watching this year's playoffs?  He was slowed by an ankle injury in the middle of some awesome play.....Utah.  Now there's a mistake free team.  Didn't get far though.

Since he started contributing more regularly this season and doing some good things, I've been of the opinion that his success is due directly to him having a limited, but clear, role in limited minutes.  Keeping him in that position, I think, is the key to him being thought of as a good NBA player.  Some players fill a role, and then get better/develop, and the role expands.  After 6 years in the league, Tony is who he is:  a 15 minute defensive bench role player.  He's good at that.  That's why he makes $2.5 million a year.  He can't do more than that, which is why no team should pay him $6 million/year.

In that amount of time, he can avoid touching the basketball.  In 30 starters minutes, teams will key the defense to funnel him the ball, then buy squares as to which fan in the 3rd row catches a pass that game.  Unfortunately, several people will likely have to split the pot, as the ball will be going everywhere.

okay you've got me down to 25 minutes.  I think at 25 minutes his weakness can be hidden, which is not to say there won't be turnovers, but there are always turnovers anyway....we practically led the league in them with Tony on the bench.  

But basically, my point is that I think the total effect he has on a game would outweigh his mistakes......

Ray would come off the bench, play more minutes and finish games....

For people who can't stomach ugly-looking mistakes on offense, I agree it's not the direction you go....(you keep him in his current role).

I can stomach the ugly turnovers as long as the overall TO numbers aren't worse/catastrophic....


TP for a fine blend of thoughtfulness and persistence...

But a lineup that featured 3 non-offensive threats, or only two offensive players that need to be stopped, isn't going to score enough to win.  I like Rondo, and Tony, and Perk, too.  But together, the team would have no balance at all offensively.  There would be no room in the paint for Rondo to penetrate; he'd dribble into traps with passing lanes clogged.  No good.

I do hope there is interest in TA out there.  I could see him in Denver doing well.  I hope we can get someone worthwhile back, too.

Yeah that makes sense.  I was picturing Paul getting more action....but then it turns into a ball movement problem.  And Paul doesn't really fit a team that starts the game in defending and fastbreaking mode.  Rondo Allen TA KG Perk makes more sense as a starting lineup than the one with TA and Pierce, but probably has the same problem you were discussing although a bit less severely (and we know Pierce ain't coming of the bench).

The issue also points to how nice it would be to have a jump shooting center on the squad....

Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2010, 12:39:41 PM »

Offline CelticHooligan3

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Tonys game might fit Denver well. But the last thing Denver needs right now is another Gangster. They already lead the league in questionable personalities and shenanigans. This is coming fro
 a Tony apologist mind you as well ****.

Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2010, 12:40:24 PM »

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The thing about TA that has bothered me the most is that he has been in the league for how many years and he still hasn't developed a reliable jump shot shot. I mean his defense is great and all but if you look at all the defensive stoppers in the league, over time they have developed reliable jump shots so they can spread the floor on offense (Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier). I mean look at Rondo. He had an arguably worse jump shot when he came into the league and now it is miles ahead of Tony's. I would rather have a player that plays hard defense and can shoot a spot up jump shot or at least develop one.
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Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2010, 12:54:19 PM »

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Sign and trade for Shane Battier came to mind first.
The beatings will continue until morale improves

Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2010, 12:56:01 PM »

Offline Chris

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I am guessing that these teams' interest in Tony Allen is overstated.

I can't see Tony getting anywhere near an MLE offer this summer.

Yeah, I think they like him as an affordable defensive specialist.  2-3 million per year. 

Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2010, 01:27:45 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I think Denver is definitely one of the teams interested, not sure they'd give him the full MLE. Maybe 60% of it.
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Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2010, 01:29:43 PM »

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I think Denver is definitely one of the teams interested, not sure they'd give him the full MLE. Maybe 60% of it.

dont see how he is a fit for Denver, Afflalo is a better defender than Tony and they also have JR Smith
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Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2010, 01:33:01 PM »

Offline RJ87

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I think Denver is definitely one of the teams interested, not sure they'd give him the full MLE. Maybe 60% of it.

dont see how he is a fit for Denver, Afflalo is a better defender than Tony and they also have JR Smith

Rumor has it, JR is on the way out of Denver.
Regardless, TA can play come off of the bench with JR and defend Kobe when Afflalo is on the bench.
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C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2010, 01:35:08 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Red used to say there are only two parts of the game:  offense and defense.  I prefer players with some, or at least one, skill at both.

Tony isn't that guy.

Pair him in a starting unit at 30 minutes and he'll have 4 TO's.

Put him out there with Rondo, Perk, and an offensively declining KG, and we'll lose games 65-60, but play great defense.

Only two parts of the game...simple.

you're saying it would be that bad after watching this year's playoffs?  He was slowed by an ankle injury in the middle of some awesome play.....Utah.  Now there's a mistake free team.  Didn't get far though.

Since he started contributing more regularly this season and doing some good things, I've been of the opinion that his success is due directly to him having a limited, but clear, role in limited minutes.  Keeping him in that position, I think, is the key to him being thought of as a good NBA player.  Some players fill a role, and then get better/develop, and the role expands.  After 6 years in the league, Tony is who he is:  a 15 minute defensive bench role player.  He's good at that.  That's why he makes $2.5 million a year.  He can't do more than that, which is why no team should pay him $6 million/year.

In that amount of time, he can avoid touching the basketball.  In 30 starters minutes, teams will key the defense to funnel him the ball, then buy squares as to which fan in the 3rd row catches a pass that game.  Unfortunately, several people will likely have to split the pot, as the ball will be going everywhere.

okay you've got me down to 25 minutes.  I think at 25 minutes his weakness can be hidden, which is not to say there won't be turnovers, but there are always turnovers anyway....we practically led the league in them with Tony on the bench.  

But basically, my point is that I think the total effect he has on a game would outweigh his mistakes......

Ray would come off the bench, play more minutes and finish games....

For people who can't stomach ugly-looking mistakes on offense, I agree it's not the direction you go....(you keep him in his current role).

I can stomach the ugly turnovers as long as the overall TO numbers aren't worse/catastrophic....


TP for a fine blend of thoughtfulness and persistence...

But a lineup that featured 3 non-offensive threats, or only two offensive players that need to be stopped, isn't going to score enough to win.  I like Rondo, and Tony, and Perk, too.  But together, the team would have no balance at all offensively.  There would be no room in the paint for Rondo to penetrate; he'd dribble into traps with passing lanes clogged.  No good.

I do hope there is interest in TA out there.  I could see him in Denver doing well.  I hope we can get someone worthwhile back, too.

Yeah that makes sense.  I was picturing Paul getting more action....but then it turns into a ball movement problem.  And Paul doesn't really fit a team that starts the game in defending and fastbreaking mode.  Rondo Allen TA KG Perk makes more sense as a starting lineup than the one with TA and Pierce, but probably has the same problem you were discussing although a bit less severely (and we know Pierce ain't coming of the bench).

The issue also points to how nice it would be to have a jump shooting center on the squad....
I understand the logic here, and most likely it's better to have a dead-eye shooter like Ray on the floor with Paul (and Rondo).  I'm just curious to see what Tony could do going towards the basket with his defender sagging off to cover PP, KG, Rondo.

Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2010, 01:40:20 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Thank god - get him out of here.  BTW, does anyone know if we could work out some kind of sign and trade deal involving him on draft day?  I'm pretty sure we can't, but just want to know.

Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2010, 01:42:46 PM »

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Thank god - get him out of here.  BTW, does anyone know if we could work out some kind of sign and trade deal involving him on draft day?  I'm pretty sure we can't, but just want to know.

No, we can't. Sign and trades can't be completed until mid-July, after the free agent moratorium lifts.
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Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2010, 01:47:40 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Question: what is the most we can resign Allen to, without using our own MLE?

Is it starting at $3.125 million (125% of his current year salary of $2.5 million), or do we have Bird Rights that allow us to offer more?
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Re: 3 Western Conference Playoff teams very interested in Tony Allen
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2010, 01:50:14 PM »

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Question: what is the most we can resign Allen to, without using our own MLE?

Is it starting at $3.125 million (125% of his current year salary of $2.5 million), or do we have Bird Rights that allow us to offer more?
They have his bird rights. Danny can offer him anything.