Referees Tonight (Good) EDIT: They Absolutely Ruined The Game (4th Quarter)

[Celtics Fan]

I knew the ref would play some part, but we lost this game 13 point lead....Ray couldn't hit the ocean if the water brush his toes man...Paul played ok but he could of did more on Hacktest. Its a nightmare that will haunt me until we make it to the finals again man. Boy it hurts bad.

[Schupac]

Don't let this take away from a very, very good Lakers team that played as well as our own.  I mean, in the end, both teams deserved that trophy, but only one could get it.

But it is very unfortunate that a few questionable (RE:bad) calls gave one team a lot of free throws and put one team in the penalty, in the 4th quarter of a game 7.  And it's unfortunate that the game was won by 4 points, because that means those calls had a direct influence on who won the game.  But what's most unfortunate is that this is the story of the league.  It isn't just Celtics fans that see these things; the people next to me while I watched the game in OHIO, who were both anti-Celtic (one b/c he likes the Lakers, one b/c he was salty about the Cavs lost), were talking about how bad the calls were.

I told someone this morning who asked me how I felt - "I love basketball too much to get upset about an NBA game."  His response?  "I made that decision years ago."

[connerhenry43]

I knew the ref would play some part, but we lost this game 13 point lead....Ray couldn't hit the ocean if the water brush his toes man...Paul played ok but he could of did more on Hacktest. Its a nightmare that will haunt me until we make it to the finals again man. Boy it hurts bad.

all that is true. here is what is also true

artest 7/18
bryant 6/24
odom 3/8
gasol 6/16
bynum 1/5


this game was taken from us by three refs. the better team did not win.

[twinbree]

I knew the ref would play some part, but we lost this game 13 point lead....Ray couldn't hit the ocean if the water brush his toes man...Paul played ok but he could of did more on Hacktest. Its a nightmare that will haunt me until we make it to the finals again man. Boy it hurts bad.

all that is true. here is what is also true

artest 7/18
bryant 6/24
odom 3/8
gasol 6/16
bynum 1/5


this game was taken from us by three refs. the better team did not win.

This. A couple of people told me we didn't deserve to win giving up so many offensive rebounds. But they were shooting 30!% Why did they deserve to win seeing as how the whole point of basketball is to put the ball in the basket. The FT disparity on it's own isn't really that bad. The problem is that they were struggling abysmally from the field and allowing them to get to line that often in the 4th gave them easy points they weren't have getting otherwise.

[MaxwellSmart86]

From the beginning of this series---with Perkins walking on eggshells---we were not allowed to win...I don't know if it was Phil Jackson getting in the refs heads--but the fouls called on us, simply were not called on them for the most part.

The Lakers did everything they could to gain an advantage with the refs---from flopping, to holding, to pushing in the back and holding our guys down on the shoulders, while they secured rebounds.....Artest,Fisher and Gasol all the main culprits.

TONS of No Calls for L.A.---But,give the Lakers credit--they had a game plan---Doc did not, we are NOT actors, unlike the boys from Hollywood.

[nyceltsfan]

I really did not want to blame the refs for this game, but I have to.  Let's forget about the huge quarter the lakers had at the line and look at some facts:

1. The Celtics lost by 4 points
2. Garnett had an "and 1" waved off for no reason in the first half.
3. Gasol traveled on a huge basket in the 4th by coming up and down with the ball before releasing it.

That's a 5 point swing - without the free throw disparity!  Now, throw in the whole 4th quarter and you see that the Celts were jobbed.
I work in the same building as David Stern and plan to let him hear it if I ever have the luck of running into him on the elevator.

[wiley]

Ive written this elsewhere but I just have to say this. The statistics are just the details but this is the essence of my issue with all this.

I used to watch the NBA religiously growing up and unfortunately didnt get to do so for the past decade on account of moving/living in Sweden. I wasn't even a Celts fan when I left, I was a hardcore Bulls fan from 85 to 00. My pops was the Cs fan so I guess I thought it was cool to route against Bird and the Cs. Decided to switch allegiances since I was already a Pats and Soxs fan a few years into the 00s. I just identified more with being a New Englader after moving away. I needed to mature to appreciate the Celts I guess.

Now that I am back and having watched this I can honestly say with a little bit of objectivity, that this isn't the same league I watched growing up. It has massive problems with its refs and obviously when money is an important issue in tough economic times I really question its integrity from top to bottom. Things happen all over the place that Ive never been witness to.

With everything else that is going down currently in this country with Wall St. and the rich guys working over the little guy I think its probably dangerous to entertain any form of idealism. It is an amazing disappoint me for me not in the fact the Cs didn't win a title, I am too old to get too worked up over sweaty men throwing a rubber ball through a hoop but in the fact that as a thinking person it wasn't even possible to get away for a while with a sport I grew up playing and love to death. Its a microcosm of the much larger malaise and chicanery. And that's something I can get worked up over and dont mind drawing attention to.

Excellent post.  I agree.  Idealism feels shaky in a world where Enron insiders talk about screwing over grannies in California.....

I also want to say I understand and appreciate the ref supporters.  This is definitely one of those issues that creates fuzzy pictures all around, and I think both sides are needed in order to move forward with legitimacy....

All I know is that after this series I don't see the fans being the #1 priority.  There is definitely some sort of other priority blob that's hovering in our midst, and it's getting plenty of stroke-filled attention....

I believe in this because it just wasn't there before, but now it is.....

The difference isn't the product. It is the press and our decreased trust. The press gets ratings by creating controversy where there is none. We have forums like this where even the most bizarre views can have a voice. We have blogs that can spew nonsense with no accountability.

We put all warts under microscopes now, even warts that aren't actually there, in a way people didn't do back in the day.

This is true too.  But it's kind of side by side what I'm talking about.  I'm not thinking in terms of conspiracy against the Celtics, financial conspiracy or Boston hatred on the part of Stern, nothing like that.  What I'm thinking about is that refs have fallen into a trap and they themselves don't know how to extricate themselves from it.  The trap I'm talking about is the temptation to over control what's in front of them.  They simply no longer have the tools that refs of the past seemed to possess and use with ease, such as finding a way to be subtle, finding a way to be consistent, disappearing on the big stage instead of saying:  Here I am!

The NBA and its rules ruined a fantastic series between the Suns and Spurs a few years back because a player stepped onto the court after a brutal foul on one his players.  That rule I believe was instituted after the fight in Detroit instigated by a drink pouring idiot, who thanks to his abuse of his of own freedom caused a brawl and the rule changes that followed.  But the rule changes were a reactionary mistake.  When you have something good, don't squeeze the life out of it due to a bonehead who feels like inserting himself into the action by dumping his drink.  I'd rather they put a fence around the court than change the rules and reduce on-court freedom.  So the when the frequency of whistle blows suddenly explodes in the 4th quarter of a game 7, I have to think that these refs have been led astray by poor leadership, reactionary measures, and fear of the real (emotion?).

That may be what I'm getting at.  The fight in Detroit was real (let's call it an ugly episode of reality).  So the league's response was:  Okay, we better swing over to the manufactured side of life and keep this real stuff as far away as possible....

A win or a loss for the Celts, the bizarre whistle increase represents the safe and cuddly choosing of something packaged over something real that unfolds naturally.

[connerhenry43]

From the beginning of this series---with Perkins walking on eggshells---we were not allowed to win...I don't know if it was Phil Jackson getting in the refs heads--but the fouls called on us, simply were not called on them for the most part.

The Lakers did everything they could to gain an advantage with the refs---from flopping, to holding, to pushing in the back and holding our guys down on the shoulders, while they secured rebounds.....Artest,Fisher and Gasol all the main culprits.

TONS of No Calls for L.A.---But,give the Lakers credit--they had a game plan---Doc did not, we are NOT actors, unlike the boys from Hollywood.

heck yes. first play of series, jax sends thug artest to get into a little skirmish with pierce. 100% premeditated. got that game called tightly, same for next 2 games. just how jackson wanted it.

at times this series was reffed evenly, even lasat night, but it was clear thta the refs were going to do all they could to help la stay alive. they sure did in that farce of a fourth quarter last night.

if i was a laker fan, i would not even be proud of this "title". the while nation knows the better team wore the road jerseys last night.

[Simulacra]

Ive written this elsewhere but I just have to say this. The statistics are just the details but this is the essence of my issue with all this.

I used to watch the NBA religiously growing up and unfortunately didnt get to do so for the past decade on account of moving/living in Sweden. I wasn't even a Celts fan when I left, I was a hardcore Bulls fan from 85 to 00. My pops was the Cs fan so I guess I thought it was cool to route against Bird and the Cs. Decided to switch allegiances since I was already a Pats and Soxs fan a few years into the 00s. I just identified more with being a New Englader after moving away. I needed to mature to appreciate the Celts I guess.

Now that I am back and having watched this I can honestly say with a little bit of objectivity, that this isn't the same league I watched growing up. It has massive problems with its refs and obviously when money is an important issue in tough economic times I really question its integrity from top to bottom. Things happen all over the place that Ive never been witness to.

With everything else that is going down currently in this country with Wall St. and the rich guys working over the little guy I think its probably dangerous to entertain any form of idealism. It is an amazing disappoint me for me not in the fact the Cs didn't win a title, I am too old to get too worked up over sweaty men throwing a rubber ball through a hoop but in the fact that as a thinking person it wasn't even possible to get away for a while with a sport I grew up playing and love to death. Its a microcosm of the much larger malaise and chicanery. And that's something I can get worked up over and dont mind drawing attention to.

Excellent post.  I agree.  Idealism feels shaky in a world where Enron insiders talk about screwing over grannies in California.....

I also want to say I understand and appreciate the ref supporters.  This is definitely one of those issues that creates fuzzy pictures all around, and I think both sides are needed in order to move forward with legitimacy....

All I know is that after this series I don't see the fans being the #1 priority.  There is definitely some sort of other priority blob that's hovering in our midst, and it's getting plenty of stroke-filled attention....

I believe in this because it just wasn't there before, but now it is.....

The difference isn't the product. It is the press and our decreased trust. The press gets ratings by creating controversy where there is none. We have forums like this where even the most bizarre views can have a voice. We have blogs that can spew nonsense with no accountability.

We put all warts under microscopes now, even warts that aren't actually there, in a way people didn't do back in the day.

This is true too.  But it's kind of side by side what I'm talking about.  I'm not thinking in terms of conspiracy against the Celtics, financial conspiracy or Boston hatred on the part of Stern, nothing like that.  What I'm thinking about is that refs have fallen into a trap and they themselves don't know how to extricate themselves from it.  The trap I'm talking about is the temptation to over control what's in front of them.  They simply no longer have the tools that refs of the past seemed to possess and use with ease, such as finding a way to be subtle, finding a way to be consistent, disappearing on the big stage instead of saying:  Here I am!

The NBA and its rules ruined a fantastic series between the Suns and Spurs a few years back because a player stepped onto the court after a brutal foul on one his players.  That rule I believe was instituted after the fight in Detroit instigated by a drink pouring idiot, who thanks to his abuse of his of own freedom caused a brawl and the rule changes that followed.  But the rule changes were a reactionary mistake.  When you have something good, don't squeeze the life out of it due to a bonehead who feels like inserting himself into the action by dumping his drink.  I'd rather they put a fence around the court than change the rules and reduce on-court freedom.  So the when the frequency of whistle blows suddenly explodes in the 4th quarter of a game 7, I have to think that these refs have been led astray by poor leadership, reactionary measures, and fear of the real (emotion?).

That may be what I'm getting at.  The fight in Detroit was real (let's call it an ugly episode of reality).  So the league's response was:  Okay, we better swing over to the manufactured side of life and keep this real stuff as far away as possible....

A win or a loss for the Celts, the bizarre whistle increase represents the safe and cuddly choosing of something packaged over something real that unfolds naturally.

The term unnatural is a terrific way to describe it. If this had been between two teams I didn't have a vested interest in it would have still bothered me as a basketball fan.

There is something really screwy in the air with refs across the spectrum of sports right now. These NBA finals and then waking up early this morning on the west coast just to see a ref in the world cup job the US out of a goal that would have won them that match. Not to mention the recent "imperfect game" in baseball.

Its a really grating set of experiences and leaves me pondering what it has for a meaning in a greater set of discourses. Attention spans shrinking due to bombardment of information? Everyone wanting 15 mins of fame good or bad due to watching too much Jersey Shore? Or worst of all too much money involved with too many people vested in a particular outcome to allow for fair play, dictating the narrative for maximum profit?

As I wrote I look to sports to get away from having to contemplate these exact kind of things and its astonishing to wind up with even more questions and hypothesis. Its like randomly meeting your boss on vacation and having him slip you some extra work.

[connerhenry43]

Simulacra, this is one of the best posts i have ever read, so well thought out. thank you.

[reggie35]

Simulacra, this is one of the best posts i have ever read, so well thought out. thank you.

Ditto on that. That's exactly how I feel about pro sports these days especially when you throw in all the PED problems and match fixing. It's almost a situation of better to be happy than to be wise.

[Chris]

The Celtics stopped moving their feet in the fourth quarter.  They earned their fouls. 

Not to mention, the refs handed the first 3 quarters to them on a silver platter, but they did not take advantage.

[snowball]

Ive written this elsewhere but I just have to say this. The statistics are just the details but this is the essence of my issue with all this.

I used to watch the NBA religiously growing up and unfortunately didnt get to do so for the past decade on account of moving/living in Sweden. I wasn't even a Celts fan when I left, I was a hardcore Bulls fan from 85 to 00. My pops was the Cs fan so I guess I thought it was cool to route against Bird and the Cs. Decided to switch allegiances since I was already a Pats and Soxs fan a few years into the 00s. I just identified more with being a New Englader after moving away. I needed to mature to appreciate the Celts I guess.

Now that I am back and having watched this I can honestly say with a little bit of objectivity, that this isn't the same league I watched growing up. It has massive problems with its refs and obviously when money is an important issue in tough economic times I really question its integrity from top to bottom. Things happen all over the place that Ive never been witness to.

With everything else that is going down currently in this country with Wall St. and the rich guys working over the little guy I think its probably dangerous to entertain any form of idealism. It is an amazing disappoint me for me not in the fact the Cs didn't win a title, I am too old to get too worked up over sweaty men throwing a rubber ball through a hoop but in the fact that as a thinking person it wasn't even possible to get away for a while with a sport I grew up playing and love to death. Its a microcosm of the much larger malaise and chicanery. And that's something I can get worked up over and dont mind drawing attention to.

100% true and Tommy Point given.

[Mr October]

The Celtics stopped moving their feet in the fourth quarter.  They earned their fouls. 

Not to mention, the refs handed the first 3 quarters to them on a silver platter, but they did not take advantage.

TP. Right on.

[reggie35]

The Celtics stopped moving their feet in the fourth quarter.  They earned their fouls. 

Not to mention, the refs handed the first 3 quarters to them on a silver platter, but they did not take advantage.

Can't have it both ways. Suggesting that the refs handed the first 3 quarters to them on a silver platter implies that they pulled the platter away in the fourth, proving that they were inconsistent. If you're saying the Celtics didn't foul in the first three quarters than the refs weren't handing them anything.