Who are the most underrated and overrated Celtics alltime

[Roy Hobbs]

Dave Cowens gets my most overrated award.  He was a good, undersized guy and a hustle player taboot and that is going to win you fans in this town.  But he played some years with Paul Silas, and Silas put up some serious numbers behind him and never gets credit for it.      

I don't know, man.  The guy was a league MVP.  He was more than just "good".

[Redz]

I think the passing of time has made some of the 1st Celtics greats, not necessarily underrated, as much as overlooked...I don't think Cousy or Heinsohn or even Sam Jones get near the appreciation they deserve.  Even Celtics fans who never saw him play know instantly to put Bill Russell at, or near, the All Time Greatest level, but some of the others of that generation or before get glossed over a little too quickly, because many of us weren't around when they played...Same goes for later generations now too I suppose.

Overrated would be Antoine, and largely because of Tommy's love for him WALTAH!  I think Dino Radja's probably a little over rated too, but who's really rating Dino for anything at this point?

[BballTim]

My most overrated might be Larry Bird. And take this the right way. He is a top 10 player of all time, top 2 at his position, top 3 in clutch shots, could do EVERYTHING (except defend at a all-defensive level), and he’s pretty bad ass.

  Bird made the all-defensive 2nd team 3 times. His defense was pretty underrated.

how many all-defensive teams has Kobe made? I didn’t see him stopping ANYONE

  Not sure where you're going with this. You said Bird never defended at an all-defense level. This simply isn't true, both in terms of how he defended and the fact that he *did* make all-defense teams. When Bird was in his prime people didn't talk about whether he was the best player in the game, they talked about whether he was the best player ever. There was little if any dispute about whether he was the best ever at his position. I don't see that as overrated.

[JBcat]

Maybe slightly underrated as nobody ever talks about Kevin Gamble. 

He was a solid player on a good Celtics team in the early 90s and enjoyed a nice 7 year career here.

Here is what he did in the 90-91 season for a 56 win team. 

After seeing spot duty for two seasons he assumed a major role with Boston in 1990-91. Gamble played in every game, including 76 starts, and averaged 15.6 points (fourth on the team, behind Bird, Lewis and McHale) in 33 minutes per game and helped the Celtics to a 56-26 record and a return to first place in the Atlantic Division. His 58.7% shooting percentage was third-best in the NBA, an astonishing feat for a 6'5" player. He did this by accurate and selective shooting from midrange. He placed second to Scott Skiles of Orlando in the voting for the Most Improved Player award. This is the closest finish in the history of the award since 1990-91 with a winning margin of four votes.

He averaged double digits in 4 out of his 7 years here.  If people are going to bring up Brian Shaw, Dee Brown, Sherman Douglas, and Reggie Lewis during this era you have to bring up Kevin Gamble as well.

[xmuscularghandix]

My most overrated might be Larry Bird. And take this the right way. He is a top 10 player of all time, top 2 at his position, top 3 in clutch shots, could do EVERYTHING (except defend at a all-defensive level), and he’s pretty bad ass.

  Bird made the all-defensive 2nd team 3 times. His defense was pretty underrated.

how many all-defensive teams has Kobe made? I didn’t see him stopping ANYONE

  Not sure where you're going with this. You said Bird never defended at an all-defense level. This simply isn't true, both in terms of how he defended and the fact that he *did* make all-defense teams. When Bird was in his prime people didn't talk about whether he was the best player in the game, they talked about whether he was the best player ever. There was little if any dispute about whether he was the best ever at his position. I don't see that as overrated.

 

Bird wasn’t as good of a defensive player has people claim he was. He certainly wasn’t a defensive liability, but he wasn’t a great defender. If you actually read my post i say that everything else is unbelievable except for that.

Along with the growing legend of Bird as this EVERY game winner went in, EVERY series was won, good game EVERY night. Larry is overrated and it’s not because of a lack of talent, it’s because his near perfect talent tricked people into seeing perfection.

[xmuscularghandix]

TP eddie about Radja. Poor man`s Duncan imo

This may be one of Pitino’s biggest screw ups. Radja said that Pitino PROMISED that he was an important part moving forward... then tried to move him. Dino said that he felt as if he couldn’t trust him, so he left 

[Yakmanev]

Maybe slightly underrated as nobody ever talks about Kevin Gamble. 

He was a solid player on a good Celtics team in the early 90s and enjoyed a nice 7 year career here.

Here is what he did in the 90-91 season for a 56 win team. 

After seeing spot duty for two seasons he assumed a major role with Boston in 1990-91. Gamble played in every game, including 76 starts, and averaged 15.6 points (fourth on the team, behind Bird, Lewis and McHale) in 33 minutes per game and helped the Celtics to a 56-26 record and a return to first place in the Atlantic Division. His 58.7% shooting percentage was third-best in the NBA, an astonishing feat for a 6'5" player. He did this by accurate and selective shooting from midrange. He placed second to Scott Skiles of Orlando in the voting for the Most Improved Player award. This is the closest finish in the history of the award since 1990-91 with a winning margin of four votes.

He averaged double digits in 4 out of his 7 years here.  If people are going to bring up Brian Shaw, Dee Brown, Sherman Douglas, and Reggie Lewis during this era you have to bring up Kevin Gamble as well.

Good call. Kevin Gamble was a very good shooter. Always enjoyed watching him play.

[TitleMaster]

Underrated ...

I'm gonna say Cowens vis-a-vis Silas. The reason for it is that when Silas was traded, Cowens quit and basically never returned (at heart). Thus, he was a considered *mediocre* during the last half of the 70s before his departure in '80. As a duo, this was the heart and soul of the 70s championship drive and it's seldom recognized by others.

Then for individual players ... Maxwell, Parish, Scott. These men were serious amazing players with limited recognition.


Overrated ...

Yes, Bob Cousy, and the reason for that is that no one's ever raved about his defenses, only his Houdini tricks on the hard wood floor. I'd take JoJo White over him since in a tough series, defense wins championships. That globetrotter stuff is nice for the regular season.

Then for individual players ... Walton (common, he also had Sichting w/ him that year), Ford, Walker (but that wasn't his fault, it was the media).

Rated Correctly ...

As for Bird, his only problem was that his brain wasn't inside the body of a Dwight Howard. Then, he'd be the defensive and offense monster of the 80s, basically snagging 20 rebounds, blocking 10 shots, and scoring 20 points in the post and then when the whole opposing team crowds the paint, he'll dribble out to the 3 pt line and drill a three on them, thus matching both Chamberlain and Baylor in points per game (50+ ppg). Simple put, Bird's defenses were based on the zone defense principle where despite his slow body, he could pick off steals (~2 per game) in the passing lanes and still be as effective as many quicker one-on-one defenders.

[tenn_smoothie]

Underrated ...

I'm gonna say Cowens vis-a-vis Silas. The reason for it is that when Silas was traded, Cowens quit and basically never returned (at heart). Thus, he was a considered *mediocre* during the last half of the 70s before his departure in '80. As a duo, this was the heart and soul of the 70s championship drive and it's seldom recognized by others.

Cowens was putting up big numbers before Silas arrived in Boston and the fact that Cowens rebounding numbers actually  increased a bit after Silas arrived is just amazing, given that Silas was the best rebounding forward in the game at that time.

Cowens didn't need Silas to be great, but he probably needed him to win championships, which they did together, of course, in '74 & '76.

that's nothing unique. Russell needed Cousy and Heinson and then later Sam, KC and Havlicek, Bird needed the Parish/McHale deal to happen in order to overcome the 76ers and later, the lakers and currently, Pierce needed Garnett most of all, along with Ray Ray to be able to hang a banner.

[TitleMaster]

Cowens was putting up big numbers before Silas arrived in Boston and the fact that Cowens rebounding numbers actually  increased a bit after Silas arrived is just amazing, given that Silas was the best rebounding forward in the game at that time.

Yes, it's true that Cowens had great rookie and sophomore years with the C's, however, it's important to note that when Silas was traded to Seattle, Cowens lost a part of himself, kinda like a b-ball soulmate, and was never the same player again. That's a unique type of player where loyalty exceeds even the game itself.

Thus, I see them as more of a psychological duo then let's say Russell-(Cousy, etc) because Russell was a stand alone type of defensive wizard alongside the Satches and Jones.

Cowen-Silas, as a duo, were a rebounding machine like no other tandem.

[BballTim]

My most overrated might be Larry Bird. And take this the right way. He is a top 10 player of all time, top 2 at his position, top 3 in clutch shots, could do EVERYTHING (except defend at a all-defensive level), and he’s pretty bad ass.

  Bird made the all-defensive 2nd team 3 times. His defense was pretty underrated.

how many all-defensive teams has Kobe made? I didn’t see him stopping ANYONE

  Not sure where you're going with this. You said Bird never defended at an all-defense level. This simply isn't true, both in terms of how he defended and the fact that he *did* make all-defense teams. When Bird was in his prime people didn't talk about whether he was the best player in the game, they talked about whether he was the best player ever. There was little if any dispute about whether he was the best ever at his position. I don't see that as overrated.

 

Bird wasn’t as good of a defensive player has people claim he was. He certainly wasn’t a defensive liability, but he wasn’t a great defender. If you actually read my post i say that everything else is unbelievable except for that.

Along with the growing legend of Bird as this EVERY game winner went in, EVERY series was won, good game EVERY night. Larry is overrated and it’s not because of a lack of talent, it’s because his near perfect talent tricked people into seeing perfection.

  I think that most people that claim Bird wasn't a good defender base their analysis largely on how he played after the achilles and back injuries slowed him down. I also disagree with the general sentiment that, at least for players under 6'10, how well they play defense is almost entirely based on how well they shut down the person opposite them. Their overall effect on the opposing offense is what really matters.

 People think that if Bird doesn't shut down his opponent but disrupts much of what the opposing offense wants to do that he isn't a great defender. That's kind of like basing your opinion of Dwight Howard's defense on the production of opposing centers and completely ignore the effect he has on opposing players that take shots close to the rim. It all matters.