Who are the most underrated and overrated Celtics alltime

[tenn_smoothie]

most underrated - Dave Cowens

easy choice, for some strange reason, the 70's Celtics championship group seems to get left out of a lot of conversations ..... and even though Dave Cowens was the best player and the hub of that group, not to mention 1973 league mvp, he strangely does not hold the same place of importance in the franchise hierarchy as Russell and Bird. seems only Bob Ryan agrees with me on this matter. me, i think most people don't really understand the game very well - and btw ..... that 1973 Celtics team w/ a healthy Havlicek shoulder could have played with anyone in histroy.

honorable mention: charley scott, cedric maxwell, Walter Brown.


most overrated - Wicks, Rowe, Walker, Barnes, McAdoo, Pitino.

bluster and stats, but all have one thing in common - they all detracted from the team rather than enhanced it. Not Celtics.

note: sorry to kick a guy when he is down and i suppose Toine's heart was in the right place, but he didn't have any idea how to hang a banner.

[Brendan]

I don't think Max gets enough credit. To this day he plays the villain role for that 1985 team. But the bench as a whole was the Achilles of that team.  ML and Buckner weren't the players they were in years before, and Carlisle was a rookie.  The bench was essentially Wedman and Max.

But many are quick to overlook that and point out that we traded Max, brought in Walton and the next year we were champs.  It was not Walton alone, the bench was much better during the 86 run.  The addition of Sichting and the improved play from Carlisle are understated.

So that said Max is probably one of my most underrated players.  Mainly b/c of how his bad rep (developed in part by Red manipulating the media during contract negotiations) has overshadowed his great play.

Dave Cowens gets my most overrated award.  He was a good, undersized guy and a hustle player taboot and that is going to win you fans in this town.  But he played some years with Paul Silas, and Silas put up some serious numbers behind him and never gets credit for it.      

TP.

Cowens was loved, but he's not a top flight guy by Celts standards. Had he been a part of the 81 championship, you'd bump him up for longevity, but I don't see him as highly as others do.

[stoyko]

Len Bias for both. Who knows how great or mediocre he would have been at this level?

[Brendan]

My most overrated might be Larry Bird. And take this the right way. He is a top 10 player of all time, top 2 at his position, top 3 in clutch shots, could do EVERYTHING (except defend at a all-defensive level), and he’s pretty bad ass.

  Bird made the all-defensive 2nd team 3 times. His defense was pretty underrated.

Sometimes when you are elite, you get bumped up in those votes, higher than you should. Not saying that was the case with Bird - but posisbility.

I'm guessing younger healthy Bird was a great team defender and acceptable team defender. He was still a good team defender later on (much defensive impact comes from rebounding and Bird was a GREAT rebounder at SF.) And of course "Bird steals the ball..."

[the_Bird]

How can Pitino possibly be overrated, at least with respect to his Celtics tenure?  Is there ANYONE who thinks of his time here as being anything but a complete, abject failure?

[looseball]

I don't think Max gets enough credit. To this day he plays the villain role for that 1985 team. But the bench as a whole was the Achilles of that team.  ML and Buckner weren't the players they were in years before, and Carlisle was a rookie.  The bench was essentially Wedman and Max.

But many are quick to overlook that and point out that we traded Max, brought in Walton and the next year we were champs.  It was not Walton alone, the bench was much better during the 86 run.  The addition of Sichting and the improved play from Carlisle are understated.

So that said Max is probably one of my most underrated players.  Mainly b/c of how his bad rep (developed in part by Red manipulating the media during contract negotiations) has overshadowed his great play.

Dave Cowens gets my most overrated award.  He was a good, undersized guy and a hustle player taboot and that is going to win you fans in this town.  But he played some years with Paul Silas, and Silas put up some serious numbers behind him and never gets credit for it.      

TP.

Cowens was loved, but he's not a top flight guy by Celts standards. Had he been a part of the 81 championship, you'd bump him up for longevity, but I don't see him as highly as others do.

It sounds like you didn't see him play much.

[Finkelskyhook]

I was going to say exactly the same thing looseball did.

[tenn_smoothie]

How can Pitino possibly be overrated, at least with respect to his Celtics tenure?  Is there ANYONE who thinks of his time here as being anything but a complete, abject failure?

meaning the rep and promise he came into Boston with, just like those other guys - that was the point of my overrated group.

i'm aware that he was the second coming of John Y. Brown and almost wrecked the franchise with his ego and incompetence.

[Finkelskyhook]

How can Pitino possibly be overrated, at least with respect to his Celtics tenure?  Is there ANYONE who thinks of his time here as being anything but a complete, abject failure?

To call Pitino an abject failure would be to grossly overrate him.  A disaster of collossal proprotions is more appropriate.

[tenn_smoothie]

Dave Cowens gets my most overrated award.  He was a good, undersized guy and a hustle player taboot and that is going to win you fans in this town.  But he played some years with Paul Silas, and Silas put up some serious numbers behind him and never gets credit for it.     

Cowens was loved, but he's not a top flight guy by Celts standards. Had he been a part of the 81 championship, you'd bump him up for longevity, but I don't see him as highly as others do.

"Cowens was loved, but he's not a top flight guy by Celts standards"

huh ? evidently, you didn't see the Celts title teams from the 70's.


Cowens was the 1973 NBA League MVP - did you miss that somewhere ?  he was the best player on that team - as in most talented, biggest stats, made the big plays, you know, in that vein.

as for Paul Silas - yes, absolutely - one of my favorite Celtics all-time. however, the bizarre comment about Silas "putting up serious numbers behind" Cowens is, uh, well bizarre.

silas had the rebounding numbers - yes, but Cowens was putting up his own staggering rebounding numbers along with being a big scorer and elite defender, plus Cowens had the intangibles that you saw in Bird and Russell. Third greatest Celtic in my rankings, behind Russell & Bird and followed closely by Havlicek, Cousy and maybe, just maybe, Pierce and Garnett.

btw ...... for your education, some Dave Cowens stats as examples >>>

1971   17 pts/15rbs per game (rookie season - ROY)

1972   19pts/15rbs per game


1973   21pts/16rbs per game (League MVP)


1974 - 76   19 pts/15rbs per game


hope this helps you understand better - six straight seasons with per game averages of 19 pts & 15 rbs - those are HUGE numbers, just so you'll know.

[Yakmanev]

I didn't start watching until 1990-1991 and even then it took the please and beggings of my father. I'm glad I gave in.

But that being said even I understand the importance of Dave Cowens. Did anybody hustle harder. What about in 74 when he blocked Alcindor aka Jabbar at one end and then ran to the other end and hooked one in over him? Yes Cowens is in our hierarchy.

As for my era--Sherman Douglas and Rick Fox. I know Fox went on the Lakers but he played very well for both franchises.

Before my era Paul Silas definitely comes to mind along with Don Cheney.

Someone said Len Bias. I can't really give someone who died of a coke overdose and never played a game the nod there.

[xmuscularghandix]

My most overrated might be Larry Bird. And take this the right way. He is a top 10 player of all time, top 2 at his position, top 3 in clutch shots, could do EVERYTHING (except defend at a all-defensive level), and he’s pretty bad ass.

  Bird made the all-defensive 2nd team 3 times. His defense was pretty underrated.

how many all-defensive teams has Kobe made? I didn’t see him stopping ANYONE

[Eddie20]

Bird was a great team defender. He was excellent in the passing lanes, was good in rotations, and had the sense to force his man to either McHale or Parish for help. He wasn't the best individual defender around because, quite simply, his lack of quickness did not allow it. You wouldn't want him covering someone 30 feet from the basket in a 1/4 type of isolation set, but how could you not want him on D with all the other things he brought to the table?

[the_Bird]

If he doesn't learn how to play D (and pretty soon), Big Al Jeff might prove to be the unanimous selection for "Most Overrated Celtic Of All Time."  

Figure a 50% chance that he still becomes a poor man's Kevin McHale, and a 50% chance he proves to be a poor man's Zach Randolph.

[Roy Hobbs]

Most underrated:  either Dave Cowens or Sam Jones.  I'd say Jones, probably.

Most overrated:  Rajon Rondo, at least for now.