Doc outcoached Phil in the 4th tonight

[cornbreadsmart]

I think their are some valid points here but I don't think he should have put Walton in either. Walton offers nothing. He's a bad defender. He's NOT., i REPEAT not a great passer. That cracks me up every time i hear it. Walton does what he can with his abilities but it usually amounts to an advantage for the other team.

[Who]

Also, the triangle works great during the course of a season and during the game, but there are times, at the end of a Finals game, when you need a set play to get Kobe the ball, and they didnt do it.

The Lakers offense scored on five of six possessions between the 8 minute mark and the 4 minute mark.

Over the next 2 plus minutes, the Lakers scored on three of five possessions. Then came that Pau Gasol turnover that killed them, which was followed up by scores on their next each of their next two possessions.

The offense worked fine down the stretch. It struggled a bit at the start of the quarter (one basket in almost four minutes) but it worked very well over the final 8 minutes (25 points over the final 8:10).

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

Luke Walton would not have been a better option. He is an inferior defender and an inferior rebounder relative to Odom and an even worse matchup versus for a strong physical beast like Glen Davis. Luke Walton is an adequate matchup against limited perimeter orientated power forwards but he should never be pitted against a physical big like Davis.

DJ Mbenga isn't even an NBA caliber player. That is like Boston putting Patrick O'Bryant in the fourth quarter of a Finals game and expecting him to be a difference maker. Mbenga is a liability defensively + offensively + is a subpar rebounder. If the Lakers want to get Mbenga some minutes, the best way is to use him against Perkins because that is the matchup that he'll do best with (limited responsibilities defensively and allowed to stay around the rim defensively = won't hurt you as much as he will against others).

The Lakers best matchup on their bench (out of their low level backup bigs) against Glen Davis is Josh Powell. He is not  as strong as Davis but he's a high energy player who can play solid physical basketball defensively + on the backboards + and is quick enough to cover BBD's jumper.

Never liked Ron Artest as a power forward. He regularly hurts his teams whenever he has played the position in the past ... but he would be a decent option here too. His lack of rebounding relative to the position/opponent is the major problem, that's what has killed his team in the past when he's played the four spot.

I'm not saying these were definitive answers. I'll give Walton a little more credit than you do. The way Odom was playing almost anyone would have been better. He has better movement than what Odom was showing. A better sense of how to run the offense as well. I'm not saying compared to Odom at his best but tonight? Almost anyone would have been better out there in the fourth. Mbenga has size he can use at least. Powell I think should have got some run there. Why not go to him?

Artest as power forward--no way. He would get abused. Granted he killed them as well with poor shot selection again tonight. Had a few good boards and good D for the most part but he continues to kill them on the offensive end.

And, again, Phil was in a tough spit without Bynum but he showed no adjustments when the team he had on the court, and the schemes he was using, continued to get abused. His stubbornness in refusing to call timeouts as well.

[Who]

I thought Doc Rivers did a great job sticking with that second unit in the fourth quarter. That second unit combination was terrific early in the quarter and got the C's the lead and Doc stuck with them while they battled LA for every inch and hung onto the lead in the process. Their contributions were huge and Doc deserves a lot of credit for sticking with them.

That said, I don't think Phil Jackson did anything wrong for his team. I thought he gave his team about as good a chance as they could have had to pull out that win.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

I thought Doc Rivers did a great job sticking with that second unit in the fourth quarter. That second unit combination was terrific early in the quarter and got the C's the lead and Doc stuck with them while they battled LA for every inch and hung onto the lead in the process. Their contributions were huge and Doc deserves a lot of credit for sticking with them.

That said, I don't think Phil Jackson did anything wrong for his team. I thought he gave his team about as good a chance as they could have had to pull out that win.

I agree wholeheartedly about Doc in this game. Agree to disagree about Phil. Another TP if I can, karma rules and all.

[twinbree]

The thing is Ray+bench gives us a very productive line-up and I'm sure knowing that gave Doc a lot of confidence leaving them out there. There's an interesting that looks at this in a little detail. Here's an except: http://celticshub.com/2010/01/06/ray-allen-and-the-mysteries-of-making-other-players-better/

I’m obsessed with the fact that line-ups featuring three or four bench players and Ray Allen have drastically out-performed line-ups featuring three or four back-ups and Paul Pierce since Allen arrived in Boston. The trend is holding true again this season; the line-up of Ray-Sheed-House-Daniels-Williams (the second most-often used line-up of the season for Boston) is scoring 127 points per 100 possessions and allowing just 93 in 72 minutes of play, according to 82games.com.

The same four back-ups with Pierce (the 4th most-often used line-up) has scored just 101 points per 100 possessions and allowed 116 in 57 minutes together.

To put those numbers in context: The C’s average about 110 points per 100 possessions and allow about 100; the Ray line-up is performing well above average on both sides of the ball.

The trend was similar (though less pronounced) last season.

So does Ray Allen possess that most unique basketball trait—the ability to make others around him better? If he does, shouldn’t that have a huge bearing on the decision (which isn’t being discussed in reality but is in blog comments) of whether to dangle Ray’s expiring deal at the trade deadline?

It’s far from a final conclusion, but there are strong indications that Ray indeed possesses this magical skill. I went back into Ray’s three final seasons with Seattle to see if the same trend was borne out, and though the data is shaky, it definitely leans toward confirming that Ray has some ability to carry line-ups populated with back-ups.

[FallGuy]

Luke Walton would not have been a better option. He is an inferior defender and an inferior rebounder relative to Odom and an even worse matchup versus for a strong physical beast like Glen Davis. Luke Walton is an adequate matchup against limited perimeter orientated power forwards but he should never be pitted against a physical big like Davis.

DJ Mbenga isn't even an NBA caliber player. That is like Boston putting Patrick O'Bryant in the fourth quarter of a Finals game and expecting him to be a difference maker. Mbenga is a liability defensively + offensively + is a subpar rebounder. If the Lakers want to get Mbenga some minutes, the best way is to use him against Perkins because that is the matchup that he'll do best with (limited responsibilities defensively and allowed to stay around the rim defensively = won't hurt you as much as he will against others).

The Lakers best matchup on their bench (out of their low level backup bigs) against Glen Davis is Josh Powell. He is not  as strong as Davis but he's a high energy player who can play solid physical basketball defensively + on the backboards + and is quick enough to cover BBD's jumper.

Never liked Ron Artest as a power forward. He regularly hurts his teams whenever he has played the position in the past ... but he would be a decent option here too. His lack of rebounding relative to the position/opponent is the major problem, that's what has killed his team in the past when he's played the four spot.

I wrote this in another thread but if Bynum is done for the series, Boston's taking it. His absence changes everything.

[Surferdad]

Luke Walton would not have been a better option. He is an inferior defender and an inferior rebounder relative to Odom and an even worse matchup versus for a strong physical beast like Glen Davis. Luke Walton is an adequate matchup against limited perimeter orientated power forwards but he should never be pitted against a physical big like Davis.

DJ Mbenga isn't even an NBA caliber player. That is like Boston putting Patrick O'Bryant in the fourth quarter of a Finals game and expecting him to be a difference maker. Mbenga is a liability defensively + offensively + is a subpar rebounder. If the Lakers want to get Mbenga some minutes, the best way is to use him against Perkins because that is the matchup that he'll do best with (limited responsibilities defensively and allowed to stay around the rim defensively = won't hurt you as much as he will against others).

The Lakers best matchup on their bench (out of their low level backup bigs) against Glen Davis is Josh Powell. He is not  as strong as Davis but he's a high energy player who can play solid physical basketball defensively + on the backboards + and is quick enough to cover BBD's jumper.

Never liked Ron Artest as a power forward. He regularly hurts his teams whenever he has played the position in the past ... but he would be a decent option here too. His lack of rebounding relative to the position/opponent is the major problem, that's what has killed his team in the past when he's played the four spot.

I wrote this in another thread but if Bynum is done for the series, Boston's taking it. His absence changes everything.

Well obviously if Bynum is out, it helps the C's, but how come no one is talking about the fact that Garnett is clearly not 100%, that Rondo is gassed, and that Rasheed has an ailing back?  I just hate the notion that we need Bynum to be in there to legitimize Celtics wins.

But back to the point, it is quite clear the Doc is out coaching Jackson.  He takes what he has and makes the best of it, sometimes to brilliant effect such as tonight's gutsy move of keeping the bench in there.  All Jackson does is make up excuses.