NBA officiating credibility

[reggie35]

The best we can do is have them review their own performances with feedback from the league.

That's what they do now and have done since 1995. It's not good enough, and I think it has actually made things worse in terms of consistency.

[guava_wrench]

The best we can do is have them review their own performances with feedback from the league.

That's what they do now and have done since 1995. It's not good enough, and I think it has actually made things worse in terms of consistency.

I agree that it may be contributing to consistency problems because refs might be second guessing themselves. I should be clear how much worse this would get if we made officials answer questions from the press, as some suggest.

[ACF]

Ive watched a ton of basketball both NBA and NCAA, and I am a Celts fan but my objective self would rather see LA win in a 4 game sweep full of blow outs that was actual basketball than the travesty "control freakism" that has been games 1-3. That is if the games were entertaining, these three games have had moments but they are few and far between and just serve to aggravate.

They are so much worse than the playoff games that proceeded them in entertainment value minus ECF games 4-5 which have a similar stink on them. Its fast becoming very anticlimactic. Not to mention a far too extensive look behind the curtain of whats wrong with the NBA.

I don't care what any idealist says that officiating isn't affecting the outcome. Opinions of this nature are just trying to turn a blind eye and preserve what ever perceived purism still exists for that individual. Its like rooting for or against Bonds or McGwire and completely disregarding how impossibly jacked up they had become.

Fact remains that an objective fan who likes basketball(my wife from Sweden who is watching her first NBA finals)finds little entertainment value in this series.

That was a great first post. I hope to read many more good posts from you. Welcome to CB, here's your first Tommy Point.

I totally agree with you on the whole "don't care if we lose as long as it's fair and square" thing. I mean, I would simply positively and absolutely hate losing to LA but if the refs were not part of that equation, I would quickly get over it. And I'm not saying anything is fixed but even to the casual observer, the casual NBA fan, a lot of the calls made must look fishy. And of course it is hard to ref a game of NBA basketball but it's not like they're inventing a time machine or finding out how to make humans fly. It must be possible. Of course there will always be bad calls but the amount of bad calls should never be this large.

I have to say, I am looking forward to the day when David Stern decides to get on a plane heading for a nice little nursing home somewhere in Florida. Yes, he has taken the league and made it into a great product of entertainment but somewhere along that journey, he forgot what sports are truly about: Two teams going up against each other, leaving it all out on the court and at the end, only one team succeeding and getting the glory. It's not about the guys in the grey jerseys and the fact that this thread (and, I'm sure, numerous threads on numerous other boards) was made, just goes to show that the NBA truly has got a problem.

The only good thing about the reffing in the Finals so far is that at least is has been equally bad for both teams. But, as we like to say about soccer refs here in Europe: A good ref is one you hardly notice during the game. Take heed, Mr. Stern. For the love of the game.

[GreenFaith1819]

I only caught the last 1 1/2 portion of the game, but so far I have to think that Ray and KG were targeted for Game 1. KG was targeted for game 2, and now Paul Pierce was targeted for Game three.

This is my observations only and I can't speak for anyone else - but this is by far the most "Interestingly-Officiated" Series I have ever seen in my Basketball Life.

From my standpoint, I don't have any proof that these games are dirty, but sometimes it makes you wonder.

Apparently it's going to take a bigger incident in the NBA before the officiating is brought before Congress.

But I also see the Opponents in this thread and their point of view: If Ray Allen had went 4  - 12 vice 0 - 12, we would've won by 1 or more points.

In my heart - I just don't want to believe that these games are dirty, but I'm starting to wonder.

They have Perk on a leash.

KG taken out for 2 games.

Ray eliminated in Game 1.

Pierce eliminated in Game 3.

Rondo - you may be next.

[LB3533]

Lakers were like last among playoffs team with a negative FT differential margin...but they have a positive differential in the NBA Finals?

What gives?

The constant whistles have allowed the Lakers to play more "physical".

[wiley]

on one hand, there has always been and always will be a lot of gripes about officiating....This can not be cured and instant replay would slow things down way too much....except as now for the occasional possession arrow...

On the other hand, this isn't rocket science.  The refs are blowing their whistles too much.  End of story.  Coaches complain less when the refs let the teams play.  That's because when you let the teams play the team that's working harder or is more talented is the team that tends to dominate when the game is flowing.  Take away flow and all bets are off.  Players also complain less with fewer whistles, because they look stupid when play continues and they're at the wrong end of the court complaining.  Coaches and fans take players to task for that kind of thing, even if there was a missed call.  There will always be complaints, during and after games, but much less when the game has a good pace to it.  The pace itself allows everyone to see that, despite missed calls, the better team actually won....

So the idea is not to create system that gets every call correct.  Impossible and bad for the game even if were possible...too slow, etc...But to create a system, or go back to a system where the game is actually enjoyable.  Players like it, fans like it, and coaches get over the bad calls under those conditions...

[bmxgitch]

   2 years ago I started looking at the games results before the playoffs. I started noticing that when certain refs were officiating more T's were called. One ref that stood out was Joe Crawford. Seems the games he refed (Celtic games) there was ALWAYS more T's ! If you look this year it is the same especially against Perkins and Wallace ! This guy has a huge grudge against these guys and it is obvious ! If the NBA can't see this then something is really wrong here !  He is just one of the current refs that really needs to retire so the NBA can get new blood in. You know ones who will call high profile players for traveling and 3 seconds and not all the T's. Perkins and Wallace are playing on pins and needles now because of refs like Crawford and it has taken thier game away.

[rondohondo]

Guess who is reffing in game 4......Scott Foster

Records show Donaghy placed 134 calls to referee Scott Foster — more than the 126 calls Donaghy made to his bookie — between October 2006 and Apr 2007, the period during which he's confessed to either betting on games or passing on game information to gamblers

And here's the really bad news for Stern

The majority of the phone calls lasted no more than two minutes and occurred prior to and after games Donaghy officiated and on which he admits wagering .

http://www.faniq.com/blog/Tim-Donaghy-Made-Numerous-Suspicious-Calls-To-Ref-Scott-Foster-Blog-10267

[bmxgitch]

It's time to stop making calls like a high school game and let them play !

[guava_wrench]

on one hand, there has always been and always will be a lot of gripes about officiating....This can not be cured and instant replay would slow things down way too much....except as now for the occasional possession arrow...

On the other hand, this isn't rocket science.  The refs are blowing their whistles too much.  End of story.  Coaches complain less when the refs let the teams play.  That's because when you let the teams play the team that's working harder or is more talented is the team that tends to dominate when the game is flowing.  Take away flow and all bets are off.  Players also complain less with fewer whistles, because they look stupid when play continues and they're at the wrong end of the court complaining.  Coaches and fans take players to task for that kind of thing, even if there was a missed call.  There will always be complaints, during and after games, but much less when the game has a good pace to it.  The pace itself allows everyone to see that, despite missed calls, the better team actually won....

So the idea is not to create system that gets every call correct.  Impossible and bad for the game even if were possible...too slow, etc...But to create a system, or go back to a system where the game is actually enjoyable.  Players like it, fans like it, and coaches get over the bad calls under those conditions...

I think it is fair to say they are too quick to make calls. This has affected both teams and probably has not resulted in much of a competitive advantage either way, but it has made the game less fun to watch. Too many phantom fouls both ways.

[guava_wrench]

I only caught the last 1 1/2 portion of the game, but so far I have to think that Ray and KG were targeted for Game 1. KG was targeted for game 2, and now Paul Pierce was targeted for Game three.

This is my observations only and I can't speak for anyone else - but this is by far the most "Interestingly-Officiated" Series I have ever seen in my Basketball Life.

From my standpoint, I don't have any proof that these games are dirty, but sometimes it makes you wonder.

Apparently it's going to take a bigger incident in the NBA before the officiating is brought before Congress.

But I also see the Opponents in this thread and their point of view: If Ray Allen had went 4  - 12 vice 0 - 12, we would've won by 1 or more points.

In my heart - I just don't want to believe that these games are dirty, but I'm starting to wonder.

They have Perk on a leash.

KG taken out for 2 games.

Ray eliminated in Game 1.

Pierce eliminated in Game 3.

Rondo - you may be next.

Don't forget Kobe in game 2, Odom in games 1 & 2, and Artest.

Since both teams have been affected, it doesn't make much sense to talk about anything being dirty. The core problem is that the game becomes ugly with all the calls and with the best players on the pine.

The problem I have is not the claim that there are a lot of bad foul calls. It is the obliviousness to how many bad calls go against our opponents.

[LakerPete]

The NBA is really blowing it...Treating everyone like they don't know any better. Bad calls, crippling teams to control the game and tempo....the refs have way too much influence. The NBA also blew it with these start times. 9pm on the East coast makes no sense.....Cut out working people, all the kids-otherwise known as the future of the NBA, ruin the East coast bars chance at having a good crowd...It is structured for the West coast, and only them......I'd say 4pm and 7pm...fair split, that way EVERYONE on both coasts can watch the whole thing till the end....

How do you propose that the working crowd watches a game that starts at 4pm?

The reason the games start when they do is because that's when the most people can and will watch. They spend a lot of money studying these sorts of things.

"They" do a lot of surveys that make absolutly no sense...!  The deal is, you have to sacrifice something on each side. Besides, if you want to get there for 4...you can and will, it will be also more conducive to the working people, that the game get over early also. 4-7,8 in LA, 7-10:30 here, works for mostly everyone..If you were in LA and had tickets, you would be there..and then 8 Sunday night, come on......I knew someone would microscope this one. Ever hear of the greater good? Gets most people there, miss the first quarter, big deal..and since when do you let others do your thinking for you..."They" said it is good for us.....sure......look where "They" got us now..!

Sure...if you want to get there at 4, you can and you will. However, ABC & the NBA's job is to get as many people to watch as possible. No intelligent business says, "if you really want our product, you'll find a way" to it's customers. Watching the game at 4 requires most people in LA leaving work around 3pm in order to get home in time to catch the start of the game. Watching the game at 9:15 means that you have to stay up until midnight to watch the end.

The latter is much more feasible and in line with what people would choose to do. It's not even close. There's a reason that primetime starts when it does.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

The NBA is really blowing it...Treating everyone like they don't know any better. Bad calls, crippling teams to control the game and tempo....the refs have way too much influence. The NBA also blew it with these start times. 9pm on the East coast makes no sense.....Cut out working people, all the kids-otherwise known as the future of the NBA, ruin the East coast bars chance at having a good crowd...It is structured for the West coast, and only them......I'd say 4pm and 7pm...fair split, that way EVERYONE on both coasts can watch the whole thing till the end....

How do you propose that the working crowd watches a game that starts at 4pm?

The reason the games start when they do is because that's when the most people can and will watch. They spend a lot of money studying these sorts of things.

"They" do a lot of surveys that make absolutly no sense...!  The deal is, you have to sacrifice something on each side. Besides, if you want to get there for 4...you can and will, it will be also more conducive to the working people, that the game get over early also. 4-7,8 in LA, 7-10:30 here, works for mostly everyone..If you were in LA and had tickets, you would be there..and then 8 Sunday night, come on......I knew someone would microscope this one. Ever hear of the greater good? Gets most people there, miss the first quarter, big deal..and since when do you let others do your thinking for you..."They" said it is good for us.....sure......look where "They" got us now..!

Sure...if you want to get there at 4, you can and you will. However, ABC & the NBA's job is to get as many people to watch as possible. No intelligent business says, "if you really want our product, you'll find a way" to it's customers. Watching the game at 4 requires most people in LA leaving work around 3pm in order to get home in time to catch the start of the game. Watching the game at 9:15 means that you have to stay up until midnight to watch the end.

The latter is much more feasible and in line with what people would choose to do. It's not even close. There's a reason that primetime starts when it does.

Well, in the end..it is your opinion and mine....it changes nothing. I'd rather have the game start at 7, or even 6 here, meet the crew, have a brew..beat the Lakers, go home...Be fresh for work still...! Gotta stay sharp in this economy..no more "sleepy" days..! Besides, if the LA guys left at 3 or 4, they might have a better commute, miss the crazt traffic..!

[LakerPete]

The NBA is really blowing it...Treating everyone like they don't know any better. Bad calls, crippling teams to control the game and tempo....the refs have way too much influence. The NBA also blew it with these start times. 9pm on the East coast makes no sense.....Cut out working people, all the kids-otherwise known as the future of the NBA, ruin the East coast bars chance at having a good crowd...It is structured for the West coast, and only them......I'd say 4pm and 7pm...fair split, that way EVERYONE on both coasts can watch the whole thing till the end....

How do you propose that the working crowd watches a game that starts at 4pm?

The reason the games start when they do is because that's when the most people can and will watch. They spend a lot of money studying these sorts of things.

"They" do a lot of surveys that make absolutly no sense...!  The deal is, you have to sacrifice something on each side. Besides, if you want to get there for 4...you can and will, it will be also more conducive to the working people, that the game get over early also. 4-7,8 in LA, 7-10:30 here, works for mostly everyone..If you were in LA and had tickets, you would be there..and then 8 Sunday night, come on......I knew someone would microscope this one. Ever hear of the greater good? Gets most people there, miss the first quarter, big deal..and since when do you let others do your thinking for you..."They" said it is good for us.....sure......look where "They" got us now..!

Sure...if you want to get there at 4, you can and you will. However, ABC & the NBA's job is to get as many people to watch as possible. No intelligent business says, "if you really want our product, you'll find a way" to it's customers. Watching the game at 4 requires most people in LA leaving work around 3pm in order to get home in time to catch the start of the game. Watching the game at 9:15 means that you have to stay up until midnight to watch the end.

The latter is much more feasible and in line with what people would choose to do. It's not even close. There's a reason that primetime starts when it does.

Well, in the end..it is your opinion and mine....it changes nothing. I'd rather have the game start at 7, or even 6 here, meet the crew, have a brew..beat the Lakers, go home...Be fresh for work still...! Gotta stay sharp in this economy..no more "sleepy" days..! Besides, if the LA guys left at 3 or 4, they might have a better commute, miss the crazt traffic..!

I hear ya, man. I'm just saying that TV stations spend a lot of money analyzing exactly what time they can get the most amount of people to watch.

And trust me...leaving at 3 or 4 is just as bad out here. Rush "hour" lasts from around 2:30 until 7:30 in this town. 

[FallGuy]

I hear ya, man. I'm just saying that TV stations spend a lot of money analyzing exactly what time they can get the most amount of people to watch.

And trust me...leaving at 3 or 4 is just as bad out here. Rush "hour" lasts from around 2:30 until 7:30 in this town. 

Sort of related. We were appalled/proud/appalled here in Toronto to find out that our traffic is even worse than in L.A. Toronto has the worst traffic congestion on the continent.