I'm done

[Tai]

I have to agree with Polsmpos here. I'm done hearing about the refs. Ray gave us NOTHING offensively, except two FTs.

Everytime the C's had a chance to make a run or just take the lead period, they screwed it up, somehow some way. They didn't deserve to win.

Give it a rest. The refs have never been perfect, but we won't win anymore games playing the sloppy ball we did. At all. Maybe it is a Game 3 thing, since we're 1-2 at home in Game 3s. Who knows.

And I'll say it again before someone brings him up: Tim Donaghy can stuff it and go live in a cave. I don't buy his crack, and neither should anyone else.

Tell that to the Kings fan who still imagines an invisable banner.

Yeah, and get banned in 5 seconds from a Kings board. What?

 No thanks, I'd rather worry about Game 4.

Especially considering the fact a Kings fan who claimed to stop watching the NBA years ago went through the trouble of making a 7-part Youtube documentary with creepy monk music about that series. I saw some of the calls.....now that I think of it, I'm not sure what to see to make it obvious it favored the Lakers, but there's no point in me going in depth if everyone already figured it was rigged.

My main problem is...the Celtics got away with a foul on Rondo that forced Odom to toss the ball outta bounds. It was initially Lakers ball, OF COURSE a replay was called for, and it was Celtics ball. If the series was truly rigged AGAINST us, they call that foul on Rondo. Same for Game 2 where it was out on KG but they didn't overturn it. They overturned TWO out of bounds calls in in Game 3, so clearly what happened in Game 2 wasn't that much an accident.

That tells me the game's too fast for the refs. That's not an excuse for them; maybe these AARP members should retire, maybe we need 4 refs instead of 3. Maybe we do need another lockout to last past preseason to see how a new breed of refs could do. But please, these conspiracy theories, they're starting to become weak.....at least OP admitted he'd leave the game after this season. Maybe most of you need to do the same before you hurt yourselves over this game (I mean the NBA as a whole, not just Game 3), since that what it sounds like you're doing.

The true problem is it doesn't matter anymore whether the game's truly fixed. Everyone thinks it is, and apparently if I or anyone else thinks otherwise, I'm an idiot, I'm naive, I've been living in a cave, etc, etc, etc. Mob mentality can be real unhealthy, guys...

[angryguy77]

The thing that is most amusing is that when the Celtics lose, the refs played a huge role and when the Lakers lose the refs played a huge role. To me the bad reffing happens almost equally to both team. The Celtics lost last night because Ray Allen could not shoot and because Paul Pierce, except for a couple of late baskets, was invisible on offense. And, let's not forget all of the missed free throws.

It has been bad, but I cannot wrap my brain around why they will not let Bostin play physical. I'm not saying the league wants la to win, but I am suspecting this series is being called tight so it goes more than 5 games. If thet refs allowed Boston to play like it has been for the first 3 series, then this thing would be over in 5.

If we are allowed to play playoff D the next two games, it will be clear to me that there is more to this than chance. But of course we will have to see.

[goz421]

I've given some serious thought to what is going on and here is what I think.  Big money ruins everything.  The betting system always wins in Vegas for a reason.  They control the aspects they are capable of.  Now I believe what Donaghy is saying is correct.  NBA officials do not know they are not calling the game incorrect.  The thing is certain refs have tendancies, and do you not want to bet Vegas has statistics to the letter on this.  Some call home games and away very different.  Now why are the same refs given certain games.  Who is controlling the ref assignments.  The female ref a few years back I thought was one of the most unbias around.  Don't see anymore do we.

Now they had to get LA to win one in Boston so why not start with the first one.  So plug into a mathmatical formula the refs most likely to swing it that way and there you have it.  perfect for Vegas and betting. Now, the rest the way you will see different refs and I bet it will be more straight up.

Boston perhaps loses or it goes into LA 3-2 and once again in game six we see manipulation.

It's all about getting the most games and making it the most predictable.

Donaghy was right and this just what he is saying.  He was exactly right about last night and the illegal picks.  Crucial point Baby is called for an illegal screen.  Next possession Artest moves and sticks an elbow in tony Allen's neck and no call.


hmmmmm


This is not a simple anti Boston problem.  It is a league problem.  Why is the commisioner never changed.  We change presidents to protect against corruption.

[Fan from VT]

The thing that is most amusing is that when the Celtics lose, the refs played a huge role and when the Lakers lose the refs played a huge role. To me the bad reffing happens almost equally to both team. The Celtics lost last night because Ray Allen could not shoot and because Paul Pierce, except for a couple of late baskets, was invisible on offense. And, let's not forget all of the missed free throws.

It has been bad, but I cannot wrap my brain around why they will not let Bostin play physical. I'm not saying the league wants la to win, but I am suspecting this series is being called tight so it goes more than 5 games. If thet refs allowed Boston to play like it has been for the first 3 series, then this thing would be over in 5.

If we are allowed to play playoff D the next two games, it will be clear to me that there is more to this than chance. But of course we will have to see.

I think both teams are playing pretty physical...there could have been a lot more fouls called on defense on boston inside that weren't. Big difference is that LA has 4 guys (odom, gasol, bynum, kobe) that can finish above the rim even with contact; Boston has none. Huge disadvantage. If we get a couple of "and-1's", that game is different; Perk, KG, Baby just are incapable of that.

[angryguy77]

I have to agree with Polsmpos here. I'm done hearing about the refs. Ray gave us NOTHING offensively, except two FTs.

Everytime the C's had a chance to make a run or just take the lead period, they screwed it up, somehow some way. They didn't deserve to win.

Give it a rest. The refs have never been perfect, but we won't win anymore games playing the sloppy ball we did. At all. Maybe it is a Game 3 thing, since we're 1-2 at home in Game 3s. Who knows.

And I'll say it again before someone brings him up: Tim Donaghy can stuff it and go live in a cave. I don't buy his crack, and neither should anyone else.

Tell that to the Kings fan who still imagines an invisable banner.

Yeah, and get banned in 5 seconds from a Kings board. What?

 No thanks, I'd rather worry about Game 4.

Especially considering the fact a Kings fan who claimed to stop watching the NBA years ago went through the trouble of making a 7-part Youtube documentary with creepy monk music about that series. I saw some of the calls.....now that I think of it, I'm not sure what to see to make it obvious it favored the Lakers, but there's no point in me going in depth if everyone already figured it was rigged.

My main problem is...the Celtics got away with a foul on Rondo that forced Odom to toss the ball outta bounds. It was initially Lakers ball, OF COURSE a replay was called for, and it was Celtics ball. If the series was truly rigged AGAINST us, they call that foul on Rondo. Same for Game 2 where it was out on KG but they didn't overturn it. They overturned TWO out of bounds calls in in Game 3, so clearly what happened in Game 2 wasn't that much an accident.

That tells me the game's too fast for the refs. That's not an excuse for them; maybe these AARP members should retire, maybe we need 4 refs instead of 3. Maybe we do need another lockout to last past preseason to see how a new breed of refs could do. But please, these conspiracy theories, they're starting to become weak.....at least OP admitted he'd leave the game after this season. Maybe most of you need to do the same before you hurt yourselves over this game (I mean the NBA as a whole, not just Game 3), since that what it sounds like you're doing.

The true problem is it doesn't matter anymore whether the game's truly fixed. Everyone thinks it is, and apparently if I or anyone else thinks otherwise, I'm an idiot, I'm naive, I've been living in a cave, etc, etc, etc. Mob mentality can be real unhealthy, guys...

I didn't say the league was against us. I said I suspect the game is being manipulated to allow for a long series. I've never seen a a playoff series not allow defense to be played. A game here and there, but not 3 straight games. Why the departure from what has been the norm? If the games continue to be called tight then my suspicion will be wrong and I will not stop being a fan.

[angryguy77]

The thing that is most amusing is that when the Celtics lose, the refs played a huge role and when the Lakers lose the refs played a huge role. To me the bad reffing happens almost equally to both team. The Celtics lost last night because Ray Allen could not shoot and because Paul Pierce, except for a couple of late baskets, was invisible on offense. And, let's not forget all of the missed free throws.

It has been bad, but I cannot wrap my brain around why they will not let Bostin play physical. I'm not saying the league wants la to win, but I am suspecting this series is being called tight so it goes more than 5 games. If thet refs allowed Boston to play like it has been for the first 3 series, then this thing would be over in 5.

If we are allowed to play playoff D the next two games, it will be clear to me that there is more to this than chance. But of course we will have to see.

I think both teams are playing pretty physical...there could have been a lot more fouls called on defense on boston inside that weren't. Big difference is that LA has 4 guys (odom, gasol, bynum, kobe) that can finish above the rim even with contact; Boston has none. Huge disadvantage. If we get a couple of "and-1's", that game is different; Perk, KG, Baby just are incapable of that.

Well I see our guys not allowed to guard Gasol w/o being called and they are able to hammer us on most drives. Whenver we pick up the intensity we are called which is a break from the past 3 series and playoff norm.

Sure we have gotten away with some calls, but it's the tone and the manner in which these games are being called thats affecting the way we play.

[Chris]

The refs have been terrible this series, but they also have been equally terrible for both teams.  It was embarrassing how much no one wanted to make a call at the end of the game, and they needed to rely on replay for simple calls.  The refs are playing scared, because they know they are in the spotlight.  There is no conspiracy here, just questionable talent.

[Q_FBE]

The refs have been terrible this series, but they also have been equally terrible for both teams.  It was embarrassing how much no one wanted to make a call at the end of the game, and they needed to rely on replay for simple calls.  The refs are playing scared, because they know they are in the spotlight.  There is no conspiracy here, just questionable talent.

I think you are onto something Chris. What disturbed me was all the moving screens they called on Boston, seemingly at critical times. Then LA could get away with it and Derek Pisher gets a big basket.
Really Doc should fix what went wrong during that 32-8 Laker run from midway 1st Q to midway 2nd Q and get the Celtics back in the series. 

[scottwedman]

People need to quit whining and face facts.

In three games, we have been largely outplayed - it took Ray setting an NBA record for threes and Rajon posting a triple double to steal Game 2, otherwise we'd be facing elimination.

The problems aren't the refs - the problems are:

1 - lack of post offense.  We are not pushing Gasol around like in 2008.  I don't know if Bynum is making that big a difference or what, but we aren't getting a lot of shots in the paint and when we do, they get blocked or slip out of our hands.

2 - REBOUNDS.  Our best rebounder is a 6'1" point guard.  We need our bigs to own the glass.

3 - Ray Allen's D.  To shut Kobe down, we have to cheat/shade/wall him with Rondo and a big - that is why the lane was open for Fisher in the 4th quarter.  We need to bench Ray and play Tony, who does better with less help, or put Ray on Artest and Pierce on Kobe.

[Chris]

People need to quit whining and face facts.

In three games, we have been largely outplayed - it took Ray setting an NBA record for threes and Rajon posting a triple double to steal Game 2, otherwise we'd be facing elimination.

The problems aren't the refs - the problems are:

1 - lack of post offense.  We are not pushing Gasol around like in 2008.  I don't know if Bynum is making that big a difference or what, but we aren't getting a lot of shots in the paint and when we do, they get blocked or slip out of our hands.

2 - REBOUNDS.  Our best rebounder is a 6'1" point guard.  We need our bigs to own the glass.

3 - Ray Allen's D.  To shut Kobe down, we have to cheat/shade/wall him with Rondo and a big - that is why the lane was open for Fisher in the 4th quarter.  We need to bench Ray and play Tony, who does better with less help, or put Ray on Artest and Pierce on Kobe.

Well, you could also say that if Ray Allen was anywhere close to average offensively, the C's likely would have rolled last night. 

I do agree that the refs have not swung anything, but I also think these two teams are incredibly evenly matched, and both have had bright spots and not so bright spots.  To expect either team to play better than they have is asking a lot, since they both have been leaving everything on the floor.  It has, and is going to continue to come down to who gets the bounces, and who gets that extra inch.  So far, the Lakers are up by one game, but it could very easily be the other way around. 

[guava_wrench]

You know who didn't lose tonight because of the officiating?  The Boston Celtics.

Read his post: you're not wanted here because you're one of those nuts who thinks the refs have nothing to do with a game. What he pointed out:

1. touch fouls and rape
2. momentum breaking, really absurd calls

are absolute facts of this series. How you can not see that is absolutely beyond me, and they have extreme extenuating effects.

Like how the refs handed us game 2 with the phantom foul calls on Kobe, right?

It is not nuts to think that the refs can affect outcomes. It is nuts when people think the refs are pulling for the team they don't root for. It is a bit pathetic when there are individuals, hopefully none here, who can only see missed calls in one direction and who rage about the refs being against their team while nutjob fans for the opposing team say the converse.

Bad calls can definitely affect outcomes, but not as much as Ray shooting poorly. That is the point many are making. The effect of the refs was hardly significant compared to the missed jumpers from the start of the game, especially since we had bad calls in both directions.

This is one of the only reasons I have a little respect for Kobe. The refs really killed him with bad calls in game 2, and he blamed no one outside of the Lakers locker room for their loss. This is also why I can't stand Phil Jackson and, for the most part, Sheed.

The refs didn't make KG set an illegal pick down the stretch, nor did they make Ray miss. They also didn't make the Celtics watch Fisher bring the ball down the court until he was already just outside the lane.

[guava_wrench]

The refs have been terrible this series, but they also have been equally terrible for both teams.  It was embarrassing how much no one wanted to make a call at the end of the game, and they needed to rely on replay for simple calls.  The refs are playing scared, because they know they are in the spotlight.  There is no conspiracy here, just questionable talent.

How is using replay a bad thing? My complaint is why they needed coaches to tell them to look at replay instead of doing it automatically.

We also benefited from a loophole they need to fix. When Rondo fouled Odom causing him to lose the ball, they need to have a rule that allows obvious fouls to trump who last touched the ball so that the Lakers get the ball on a play like that. Then again, there is so much going on, that complicating review like that could be a pandora's box.

I'm sorry but out of bounds calls are definitely not simple in most cases. It happens too fast and angles are often obstructed by bodies and the ball itself. Those calls are simple when we watch the instant replay, but not in real time on the court. It is good that they got the calls right (one in each direction, and then the one disturbing call on the uncalled Rondo foul on Odom).

[Chris]

The refs have been terrible this series, but they also have been equally terrible for both teams.  It was embarrassing how much no one wanted to make a call at the end of the game, and they needed to rely on replay for simple calls.  The refs are playing scared, because they know they are in the spotlight.  There is no conspiracy here, just questionable talent.

How is using replay a bad thing? My complaint is why they needed coaches to tell them to look at replay instead of doing it automatically.

I am OK with them using replay, however, it is a bad sign when they have to rely on it so much.  On the last play when they used it, they were calling for a replay without even making a call on the floor, when it was a pretty clear play IMO.  The refs just looked like they were playing scared to me.

[FallGuy]

The refs have been terrible this series, but they also have been equally terrible for both teams.  It was embarrassing how much no one wanted to make a call at the end of the game, and they needed to rely on replay for simple calls.  The refs are playing scared, because they know they are in the spotlight.  There is no conspiracy here, just questionable talent.

How is using replay a bad thing? My complaint is why they needed coaches to tell them to look at replay instead of doing it automatically.

I am OK with them using replay, however, it is a bad sign when they have to rely on it so much.  On the last play when they used it, they were calling for a replay without even making a call on the floor, when it was a pretty clear play IMO.  The refs just looked like they were playing scared to me.

They weren't playing scared.

They were just taken out of their game because of all the fouls the players were calling on them.

[guava_wrench]

The refs have been terrible this series, but they also have been equally terrible for both teams.  It was embarrassing how much no one wanted to make a call at the end of the game, and they needed to rely on replay for simple calls.  The refs are playing scared, because they know they are in the spotlight.  There is no conspiracy here, just questionable talent.

How is using replay a bad thing? My complaint is why they needed coaches to tell them to look at replay instead of doing it automatically.

I am OK with them using replay, however, it is a bad sign when they have to rely on it so much.  On the last play when they used it, they were calling for a replay without even making a call on the floor, when it was a pretty clear play IMO.  The refs just looked like they were playing scared to me.

Why would we want them to make a call when they know they didn't see it clearly? This sounds like a no win situation. people complain when they get calls wrong, though it is unavoidable that they can't see who really touched the ball last on many plays. When they are honest about this like on that play, we still complain?

If the play was actually clear, wouldn't they have called a foul? They couldn't tell in real time whether Rondo knocked the ball out or not.