How can a game be called evenly but completely effect the outcome of a game?

[MaxwellSmart86]

There was actually a play tonight---where Bynum was in the paint offensively for 7-8 seconds---and no call.--Gasol had the ball and was fumbling with it a coupe of times.

[scottwedman]

I think Perk is playing tentatively because of the specter of a 7th tech hanging over his head, which affects our interior D.

[nickagneta]

Not taking responsibility for playing horrible defense will lead to a game 2 loss.

No excuses...gotta play better. Officials had nothing to do with it.

Rather hard headed, aren't we?

I and many here are not claiming the refs stole this game from the Celtics or were the cause of a loss for the Celtics. I and many here are not claiming that the officiating caused the Celtics lack of defense or energy or focus, which by the way I stated quite clearly in my original post. I and many here are not claiming any excuses for the Celtics poor play that led to a loss other than their own play.

All I and others are trying to say is that the calling of a game a certain way by the refs can and will effect the game and can in fact  favor one team in a game depending upon the style of the game and how it effects game flow.

Please read the original post over again, or for the first time. Maybe you'll see what I am really trying to say instead of what you are claiming or insinuating or implying I am trying to say.

[wdleehi]

I completely agree.



Celtics defense needs to be allowed physicality to really sink it's teeth into a team.  Last, night, the official called a finesse game.  A game that gives the benefit to the Lakers' style of play.




I want playoff basketball!!!

I want guys being physical!!!


I also want to see the Celtics show up.  Stop laying eggs. 

[Drucci]

I agree totally. We didn't lose because of the officiating, we got outrebounded, outhustled and we shot the ball very badly, didn't play Ubuntu-like basketball.

But the fouls on Ray were ridiculous, especially his 4th and 5th. It doesn't appear in the boxscore but it's a huge, huge factor because when he is gone we basically have no spacing. It's no coincidence that L.A went on a big run when Ray was on the bench and Rondo and TA got basically ignored defensively so the Lakers could focus on KG and Pierce. It killed us.

I just wish officials won't call phantom fouls on Ray like that anymore in the future, this was ridiculous.

[aTavalance]

This game was not called evenly... not even close. I agree with this opinion. Yes we got outrebounded,outplayed and all these but we can't say refs made good calls. If they decide to call tick-tack fouls and give such a pace in the game they have to do it for both sides. There were a lot of fouls by Ron,Pau and Lamar in contact that stayed uncalled. Lakers were playing physical and refs did not do anything about it while allen was sitting at the bench for more tha 9 minutes. So don't tell me that this game was called even. Visit nba's official site and take a look at top 5. No 2, Kobe's "block" is a clear foul. Just an example...

[Bynum4MVP]

Celtics lost because they didn't come out with the energy and desire to win this game.  End of story.  

Anything more and it's like the Laker fans crying about the refs helping the Celtics win in 2008 (ie Leon Powe shooting more FT's than the entire Lakers team, moving screens, one-sided officiating, etc).

You want to win, you take the game into your hands; refs will make good calls and bad calls, it's part of the game.

[wiley]

I don't see how anyone who's not a hardcore fan of the either the Celtics or Lakers could watch this game......a circus of whistles.

It seems as if the refs can't handle the emotion of the game.....they are reffing in total fear.....Is it society?  Is it Stern?  What's behind this flow killing game management?  I'm serious.  What's the source?  The brawl in Detroit?  Elevated trash talk plus tattoos?  Why the heck have the refs gone cowardly?  Would they prefer reffing at a neutral site?  Could they handle that?

Remember the college championship game?  One of the most beautiful games of basketball I've seen in a long while......plenty of physical action without constant whistles....Are those refs availabe lol?

If I'm not in Boston or L.A. I turn off the series.....

[nickagneta]

Celtics lost because they didn't come out with the energy and desire to win this game.  End of story.  

And that was made abundantly clear in the original post.

Do people actually read posts anymore or do they just read the title of threads and think they have it figured out from there?

But back to the point. A game that is called extremely tight is going to favor the Lakers, even if called evenly. We saw that for portions of last night's game. If, however, the officials "let them play" and there is a lot of contact, even if the game is called evenly, such an officiated game would favor the Celtics. My guess here is we will see at least one of these type of games before the series is over.

The Celtics defense thrives on contact to the body and contact with the arms and hands that allows them closer in on their opponents and also allows them to move the opposing players out of their comfort areas, farther from the basket. This causes perimeter clutter that closes driving lanes and allows for the Celtics perimeter defenders to help down low easier while still being able to run perimeter shooters off their shot because they can close the short distance easier.

But if the refs are going to call it very tight and not allow a lot of contact there that will strip the Celtics defense of it's ability to move low post opposing players off their spots. With the Lakers being longer than the Celtics it allows them better positioning for offensive rebounds as well as greater spacing that will help the outside shooters get the space they need to shoot because the C's can't close the distance from the post to the perimeter as well in running the outside shooters off their shots. It allows for more space to drive and create their own shot and causes less deflections, which is a staple of the C's defensive scheme.

All that said, the Celtics loss because they didn't play well but that first quarter is a perfect example of how a game, being called tightly and evenly can favor the Lakers. Ray sitting early kills the Celtics chances of getting an offensive flow and it causes the Celtics defense to get tentative, which as the first quarter went on and on and players started racking up early foul trouble, was fairly evident.

[kozlodoev]

I don't see how refereeing can be an issue at all. We got our share of tacky fouls called against the Lakers, too bad they didn't really get anyone in foul trouble.

And we didn't dig ourselves into a 20-point hole because of anything the officiating crew did. Meh.

[GranTur]

This is bogus. Sorry. Our half court, set defense is supposed to be the best. It failed.

Celtics could have easily attacked the basket more effectively. The Lakers only have 2.5 big men versus our 4 big men. We let them prance around on defense and we never attacked the basket. Our points in the paint was pathetic.

[libermaniac]

I'm in total agreement here.  The Lakers out-hustled the C's last night big-time.  But, perhaps the quick whistles is what gave the Lakers the confidence to take it to the hole repeatedly, and took a little out of the C's defensive intensity.  Don't take this as an excuse, we all know teams needs to adjust.  But, anybody needs to admit that a tightly called game favors the Lakers and a loosely called game favors the C's.

I've always felt the league "controls" the tone of the game with their referee assignments.  So, rather than "fixing" games, they just assign a ref crew that will call a game in favor of one team or another. 

To me the real telling factor for whether I'm a conspiracy theorist or not is WHEN the referee assignments are made for a series?  Does anyone know whether it is well in advance, or not?

For instance, once the C's got up 3-0 vs. Orlando, you saw the refs let anything go - same could happen in this series if C's go down 2-0.  I just wonder when the ref assignments are made.  Anyone know this?

[Roy Hobbs]

Do people actually read posts anymore or do they just read the title of threads and think they have it figured out from there?

Heck, nick, I think that even from the title, it should have been clear that you weren't "blaming" the refs for the loss.  The Celtics sucked last night, but the style of the officiating absolutely contributed to our lack of rhythm.  There's maybe not a lot to complain about there (especially in the first half) because the Lakers were called for the same ticky-tack fouls, but it sure wasn't fun to watch, and it isn't a style conducive to us winning.

If the Celtics aren't allowed to play physical defense, I'm not sure that we can win this series.  That's our style, and we rely upon officials letting things go a bit.  That's been the case for three seasons now, and I don't think the Celtics can adapt their game into a finesse one overnight.

[nickagneta]

Do people actually read posts anymore or do they just read the title of threads and think they have it figured out from there?

Heck, nick, I think that even from the title, it should have been clear that you weren't "blaming" the refs for the loss.  The Celtics sucked last night, but the style of the officiating absolutely contributed to our lack of rhythm.  There's maybe not a lot to complain about there (especially in the first half) because the Lakers were called for the same ticky-tack fouls, but it sure wasn't fun to watch, and it isn't a style conducive to us winning.

If the Celtics aren't allowed to play physical defense, I'm not sure that we can win this series.  That's our style, and we rely upon officials letting things go a bit.  That's been the case for three seasons now, and I don't think the Celtics can adapt their game into a finesse one overnight.

I thought I did make that pretty clear in the title thread but people keep harping on the fact that they think this thread is about using the officiating as an excuse for last night's game. That not what I am saying but that doesn't seem to be sinking in to some.

[wdleehi]

I don't see how refereeing can be an issue at all. We got our share of tacky fouls called against the Lakers, too bad they didn't really get anyone in foul trouble.

And we didn't dig ourselves into a 20-point hole because of anything the officiating crew did. Meh.

Even when games are called fairly, the style of play allowed can still favor one team over the other.


When the official allow playoff basketball (physical), the Celtics have an advantage.


When the officials allow less physicality, a finesse team like the Lakers have an advantage.



It is not an excuse for losing.  It is not an excuse for the Celtic's bad play last night.  



But it does effect the game.