How did Pierce fall so far in the Draft?

[ibby]

Sorry for this random thread amidst all the Finals related topics...

I was thinking today about the career of Paul Pierce.  The guy came out of Kansas as an All-American (first team) and was widely considered the best non center in the draft.  While number 10 is a pretty high draft pick I don't get how he was taken so low.

I remember that almost every mock draft (this was before everyone and their mother did a mock draft so it was probably only the Globe, USA Today, the Herald, and one or two other papers that I saw) had him and Mike Bibby going 2 and 3 in some order, with the first pick unanimously being a center who I will mention later.  Yet somehow PP slipped to the Celtics at #10.

Granted this happens.  Gerald Green was supposed to be a top 5 pick, but people realized in the combines that he was a freakish athlete and not a basketball player (he of course was a bust even at #18).  Gilbert Arenas  was considered a #15-20 first round pick but fell to the second round because he measured closer to 6'2" than his listed 6'5" (bad example now but he was a [dang] good player).  Carlos Boozer had his work ethic questioned which is why he fell to the second round.

Now those other examples were all people who fell about the same amount of places as Pierce fell (6-10 spots lower than anticipated).  I also don't think the combines in 1998 were covered as intensely as they are now, so maybe Pierce dropped the ball in one of the combines.  But without knowing that for sure how did Pierce drop to #10? 

I remember watching the draft on TNT (I think) and hearing the commentators question why Pierce was on the board, and having a conniption when Jason Williams was taken at #7.  He was basically what Colt McCoy (or Jimmy Clausen) was in the NFL Draft this year, the cameras constantly flashing back to him in the waiting area.

I'm thankful he fell so far, but I don't get it.  He was considered to be better than Carter at the same position, he was also considered better than Larry Hughes who played shooting guard but I think is similar size.  I will let Dirk slide, but at the time (I feel like) European players were not often taken that high in the draft.  And lets not even get into LaFrentz (who was projected to be the 4th or 5th pick but still), Olowakandi (number 1, really) and Robert Traylor.

He measured the right size.  He wasn't overweight or out of shape like Traylor.  He had a great college career at a big time school (unlike Olowakandi who had a better than average career at a low level D1 school). 

Does anyone know why or have any idea why he fell to the Celtics? Not that I'm complaining.

EDITED FOR GRAMMAR

[Mr October]

thats a big mystery. He was projected as a 2-5 pick. Teams sometimes get caught up in potential or position need.

[rjsuperfly66]

The funny thing is that if I remember right, the Celtics did not even want Pierce.  They wanted Dirk who was taken one pick in front of the Celtics.

The rest is history.

And to think guys like Michael Olowakandi, Mike Bibby, Raef Lafrentz, Robert Traylor, Jason Williams, and Larry Hughes went over both Dirk and PP.

[ibby]

thats a big mystery. He was projected as a 2-5 pick. Teams sometimes get caught up in potential or position need.

I don't think people started drafting purely on potential until after the horrendous 2000 draft.  Most teams in the late 90s seemed to be drafting for either (a) the position they needed filled, which is how Olowakandi went #1 or (b) someone who could contribute right away, which is why Jason Williams went so high.

[Frezz]

Gerald Green was supposed to be a top 5 pick, but people realized in the combines that he was a freakish athlete and not a basketball player (he of course even was a bust even at #18)

I remember I was celebrating when the Pacers picked Granger at 17 and Green slipped to us at 18. Doh!

[Celtics18]

One possible explanation that I can offer as a diehard URI Ram fan is that he might have dropped because he got outplayed by Cuttino Mobley in the NCAA tournament.  Kansas was one of the heavy favorites to win the title and alot of people put the blame on Pierce for not stepping up in a big game. 

That was a win/win for me; My beloved Rams pulled off one of their biggest wins in school history, and it possibly might have helped the Boston Celtics land the player who has turned into my favorite Celtic of all time.

[ibby]

One possible explanation that I can offer as a diehard URI Ram fan is that he might have dropped because he got outplayed by Cuttino Mobley in the NCAA tournament.  Kansas was one of the heavy favorites to win the title and alot of people put the blame on Pierce for not stepping up in a big game. 

That was a win/win for me; My beloved Rams pulled off one of their biggest wins in school history, and it possibly might have helped the Boston Celtics land the player who has turned into my favorite Celtic of all time.

I didn't even think of that.  The NCAA Tournament was a huge tool in figuring out pro players then.  In 1995, Antonio McDyess (a fairly average college player in 2 years @ Alabama) became the #2 overall pick after 2 monster rounds of play at the Big Dance.

[BballTim]

thats a big mystery. He was projected as a 2-5 pick. Teams sometimes get caught up in potential or position need.

I don't think people started drafting purely on potential until after the horrendous 2000 draft.  Most teams in the late 90s seemed to be drafting for either (a) the position they needed filled, which is how Olowakandi went #1 or (b) someone who could contribute right away, which is why Jason Williams went so high.

  Wasn't Hughes a high schooler? Those guys were drafted on potential. Pierce was seen as the most polished and nba-ready, but not necessarily with more potential than Carter or Hughes. Other guys were drafted for size.

  I remember hearing about or reading about a story where, after PP slid a few spots lower than he thought he wanted to go, he (and/or his agent) decided he wanted to go to Boston or Dallas (don't remember the exact story) and they somehow got the word out to a couple of the teams that might have picked him that Paul didn't want them to draft him, extending his slide a few spots.

[liam]

What about Rondo? What about Reggie Lewis? Parker? Very good players can slip all the way to the end of the draft.

[Carhole]

thats a big mystery. He was projected as a 2-5 pick. Teams sometimes get caught up in potential or position need.

I don't think people started drafting purely on potential until after the horrendous 2000 draft.  Most teams in the late 90s seemed to be drafting for either (a) the position they needed filled, which is how Olowakandi went #1 or (b) someone who could contribute right away, which is why Jason Williams went so high.

  Wasn't Hughes a high schooler? Those guys were drafted on potential. Pierce was seen as the most polished and nba-ready, but not necessarily with more potential than Carter or Hughes. Other guys were drafted for size.

  I remember hearing about or reading about a story where, after PP slid a few spots lower than he thought he wanted to go, he (and/or his agent) decided he wanted to go to Boston or Dallas (don't remember the exact story) and they somehow got the word out to a couple of the teams that might have picked him that Paul didn't want them to draft him, extending his slide a few spots.

Just to answer your question - Hughes was not a high schooler he played at the basketball giant St. Louis University and came out as a freshman but he did have an incredible freshman year.

PP fell because he had bad workouts and teams "questioned" his work ethic, heart etc...all the things you hear after people have bad workouts. Look at his college numbers in a major program they are ridiculous - good for us people got scared off.

We didnt even have him in for a workout or interview and Pitino picked him it was just too much talent to let slide with the 10th pick

[ibby]

What about Rondo? What about Reggie Lewis? Parker? Very good players can slip all the way to the end of the draft.

Pierce was thought to be taken 2-5 (really considered the 2nd best player overall), Parker, Lewis, and Rondo were taken where they were projected (or a bit higher in Lewis's case).

[slamtheking]

One possible explanation that I can offer as a diehard URI Ram fan is that he might have dropped because he got outplayed by Cuttino Mobley in the NCAA tournament.  Kansas was one of the heavy favorites to win the title and alot of people put the blame on Pierce for not stepping up in a big game. 

That was a win/win for me; My beloved Rams pulled off one of their biggest wins in school history, and it possibly might have helped the Boston Celtics land the player who has turned into my favorite Celtic of all time.

I didn't even think of that.  The NCAA Tournament was a huge tool in figuring out pro players then.  In 1995, Antonio McDyess (a fairly average college player in 2 years @ Alabama) became the #2 overall pick after 2 monster rounds of play at the Big Dance.

I remember that -- his Alabama team knocked off PC which was a surprise with the talent they had that year.

[Moranis]

Sixers had made a promise to Hughes and didn't want to be the franchise to back out on a promise, so they kept it.  See linked video to interview with Larry Brown who says he would have taken Pierce without the promise.

http://dimemag.com/2009/06/nba-draft-promises-could-cost-you-the-next-paul-pierce/

Pierce also supposedly told the Raptors at 4 and Kings at 7 that he didn't want to play for them.  None of the other teams really had a need until Boston.  In addition, there were grumblings that some of his workouts were poor and people questioned his attitude.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/1998/weekly/980706/nba0706/a.html

[ibby]

PP fell because he had bad workouts and teams "questioned" his work ethic, heart etc...all the things you hear after people have bad workouts. Look at his college numbers in a major program they are ridiculous - good for us people got scared off.

This doesn't surprise me greatly.  But I remember seeing the Globe's mock draft the morning of the draft and they still had him at #2 to Vancouver.

I could see someone like Cousins (bad attitude and work ethic) doing a bit of a slide this year, but I never thought anyone questioned Pierce's work ethic which could explain the drop.  

[ibby]

Sixers had made a promise to Hughes and didn't want to be the franchise to back out on a promise, so they kept it.  See linked video to interview with Larry Brown who says he would have taken Pierce without the promise.

http://dimemag.com/2009/06/nba-draft-promises-could-cost-you-the-next-paul-pierce/

Pierce also supposedly told the Raptors at 4 and Kings at 7 that he didn't want to play for them.  None of the other teams really had a need until Boston.  In addition, there were grumblings that some of his workouts were poor and people questioned his attitude.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/1998/weekly/980706/nba0706/a.html

You basically just solved this mystery for me.  Thanks.  I just can't believe looking back that anyone would take LaFrentz (who played with Pierce in college) at #3.  Anyone remember who Denver had at SF and SG that year (1998)?