I just do not get it.....Historical significance of a C's win (Kobe Rant)

[Carhole]

I hugely respect Kobe as a player and I concede he is the greatest individual talent in this series and probably one of the 15 greatest "talents" of all time in NBA.

I know it should not irk me so b/c I am well aware that ESPN, SI and basically every other media outlet at this day in age is not overly concerned with the fact but much more with drawing interest and waxing poet about individual brilliance tends to be the norm but I have now read 3 different articles on day 1 of finals coverage saying that "Kobe Bryant simply will not let his team lose" as a reason for why you have to favor the lakers.

Really then why has he lost 2 NBA finals when he was favored! Do these guys just pretend like this stuff didnt happen? Did he not have that will to win in 04 or 08? It is just such a lazy way to handicap this series especially when, even if Kobe has the greatest individual will to win (which is in no way provable) I would say the celtics have the next 5 people in the series who show a true will to do what is necessary for their team to secure the W. Maybe you could argue Fisher deserves a spot but I take the will of PP, KG, Rondo, Ray and Perk against anyone. In fact D Howard admitted as much after taking it on the chin from the C's - The celtics wanted it more!

Shift in historical significane - I want to beat Balloon Knot Bryant so frickin bad for the added reason that us Spanking them this year completely invalidates his title without shaq last year. Everyone will say (right or wrong) if KG didnt busy his knee they would have not been able to handle the Celtics in 09 either. Nothing would make me happier thank Kobe losing 3 of his last 4 Finals as a favorite and having the one he did win forever be followed up by the sentence "sure he won it but that is only b/c KG was hurt the next year he learned his lesson!"

Also if the Celtics handle the Lakers, a team that has shown to have championship pedigree vs the other 28 teams in the NBA people will most likely look back and give this team a mulligan 3 peat. People will say, "[dang] if KG didnt hurt his knee they easilay had three in a row" that puts this team in interesting company historically with their balance and defensive intensity. Company KG, PP and Ray deserve to be in with their resumes in this league.

I wish I could go to sleep and wake up Thursday this cant get here soon enough

[Bynum4MVP]

Props to you for giving Kobe props.  Sure he's a polarizing figure but he will be one of the Greatest of our generation; most haters will let the hate get in the way.

Kobe is known for payback.  Revenge is a strong motivating factor and it not only applies to Kobe but to Phil, Fisher, Odom, Pau who were thoroughly embarrassed in 2008.

Motivating factors:
1) 39 point beatdown...that was embarrassing; no words to describe.  I personally think the Celtics should have let the Lakers off easier; but now the Lakers will want to repay that embarrassment.
2) Kobe knows if he wants to be better than Magic, he has to beat the Celtics.
3) Getting #5 puts Kobe above Shaq and Duncan
4) MJ

Kobe has the talent to win games...now he has even more motivation.  Kobe was upset with the Suns, he dropped 33 on them for the series.  Even if he has to give up shots and give out assists, he'll do what it takes to win.

It does sound ridiculous to give 1 player that much credit "won't let his team lose", I know so I can understand your rant.

Good luck in the series.

[GreenFaith1819]

Carhole - Good Post. I understand your pain. A Lot of the Media is Pulling for the Lakers. I am here in VA, and today, the Sports Section has a Long article on - you guessed it!

Kobe.

The thing I have learned over the last several years is that Great Team Defense will never get any more than a passing thought in the media's eyes - because with great Team defense you can't focus on a single person.

In many media outlets in 2007-08, many of the reactions to LA getting pummeled was: LA didn't show up, Bynum was hurt, etc....not the fact that The Celtics, committing to Team Defense, took Kobe and company out of their game.

Defense just ain't pretty. Never has been. Never will be.

In my limited memory of following the NBA, the teams that committed to Defense Always won - even with Michael Jordan..he had Pippen, arguably the best wing defender to play the game. Those two created more havoc defensively than anything else, IMO.

No matter how much Kobe may try to "Will his team to win"..he won't do it, no matter how many points, assists, etc he tries to score.

My warning for Kobe: Don't do it. Don't try to beat Boston by yourself. If you are fortunate to hit 40 or 50, the resulting effect will be a loss by the Lakers.

No matter how Great Kobe is, and I admit he is definitely one of the greatest of all time, I think - he will be foolish to make this series personal.

My greatest memories of Michael was not the individual performances, but how he got his teammates involved.

Team Defense is the Only way to beat LA. And I feel that Boston is prepared to do that the next few weeks.

And just a warning for Celtics Fans: If Boston plays their brand of ball (ugly, drag it out Defense), then once the smoke clears by mid June, we will have Banner 18. But will be only a passing thought in the Media's eyes.

Yes - to any Laker fan reading this, I have my Green-Tinted glasses on. But to me, Great Defense will always trump Great Offense.

Can the remaining Lakers commit to Defense? Have they had to over the last several weeks?

Boston has survived Lebron, Wade, and Dwight - All of them Monsters...Brutal.

As great a Team as LA is, I just think they can be had - Defensively.

[FallGuy]

Props to you for giving Kobe props.  Sure he's a polarizing figure but he will be one of the Greatest of our generation; most haters will let the hate get in the way.

Kobe is known for payback.  Revenge is a strong motivating factor and it not only applies to Kobe but to Phil, Fisher, Odom, Pau who were thoroughly embarrassed in 2008.

Motivating factors:
1) 39 point beatdown...that was embarrassing; no words to describe.  I personally think the Celtics should have let the Lakers off easier; but now the Lakers will want to repay that embarrassment.
2) Kobe knows if he wants to be better than Magic, he has to beat the Celtics.
3) Getting #5 puts Kobe above Shaq and Duncan
4) MJ

Kobe has the talent to win games...now he has even more motivation.  Kobe was upset with the Suns, he dropped 33 on them for the series.  Even if he has to give up shots and give out assists, he'll do what it takes to win.

It does sound ridiculous to give 1 player that much credit "won't let his team lose", I know so I can understand your rant.

Good luck in the series.

I think Kobe probably has the strongest will to win of anyone in this series. Which says a lot considering he's going up against a team with KG.

[Carhole]

Props to you for giving Kobe props.  Sure he's a polarizing figure but he will be one of the Greatest of our generation; most haters will let the hate get in the way.

Kobe is known for payback.  Revenge is a strong motivating factor and it not only applies to Kobe but to Phil, Fisher, Odom, Pau who were thoroughly embarrassed in 2008.

Motivating factors:
1) 39 point beatdown...that was embarrassing; no words to describe.  I personally think the Celtics should have let the Lakers off easier; but now the Lakers will want to repay that embarrassment.
2) Kobe knows if he wants to be better than Magic, he has to beat the Celtics.
3) Getting #5 puts Kobe above Shaq and Duncan
4) MJ

Kobe has the talent to win games...now he has even more motivation.  Kobe was upset with the Suns, he dropped 33 on them for the series.  Even if he has to give up shots and give out assists, he'll do what it takes to win.

It does sound ridiculous to give 1 player that much credit "won't let his team lose", I know so I can understand your rant.

Good luck in the series.

Thanks for the response. It should be a great series, I think the celtics will and have to win in 6 b/c a game 7 in the forum against kobe is a scary proposition.


But as an LA fan you still didnt answer my initial question (and I agree with your point Kobe is known for wanting "payback") why do people say Kobe "will not let his team lose" when we have already seen it happen to him twice with favored squads? It sounds an awful lot like what they said before 08 series started, he was coming off his first MVP and he was hyper focused to prove everyone wrong etc...

I guess my larger issue is just using such a simple, lazy explanation to "breakdown" what should be a great series especially when the justification has already been proven wrong two of the last three times he was in the finals.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Kobe's will to win will probably hurt him in this series.  When he is in full on aggressive mode he typically shoots way too much.  Even if he makes them early on, it will eventually stagnate the offense... I've seen it happen time and time again with the Lakers. 

[Carhole]

Kobe's will to win will probably hurt him in this series.  When he is in full on aggressive mode he typically shoots way too much.  Even if he makes them early on, it will eventually stagnate the offense... I've seen it happen time and time again with the Lakers. 

Completely agree, that will to win often clouds his judgement of what the game needs from him. Here is hoping that his ego shoots the lakers right out of the series

[Q_FBE]

I want to see what Rondo can do in this series...

Kobe and Gasol want their revenge against the Celtics but I think there are at least 8 active contributors on the Celtics that want their 2nd championship.

My guess is that the Lakers are no where near their 80's ancestors - well the Celtics, on paper, were not all that far behind.

I would have liked to see if the Lakers could handle Orlando and Cleveland back to back.

[BballTim]

Props to you for giving Kobe props.  Sure he's a polarizing figure but he will be one of the Greatest of our generation; most haters will let the hate get in the way.

Kobe is known for payback.  Revenge is a strong motivating factor and it not only applies to Kobe but to Phil, Fisher, Odom, Pau who were thoroughly embarrassed in 2008.

Motivating factors:
1) 39 point beatdown...that was embarrassing; no words to describe.  I personally think the Celtics should have let the Lakers off easier; but now the Lakers will want to repay that embarrassment.
2) Kobe knows if he wants to be better than Magic, he has to beat the Celtics.
3) Getting #5 puts Kobe above Shaq and Duncan
4) MJ

Kobe has the talent to win games...now he has even more motivation.  Kobe was upset with the Suns, he dropped 33 on them for the series.  Even if he has to give up shots and give out assists, he'll do what it takes to win.

It does sound ridiculous to give 1 player that much credit "won't let his team lose", I know so I can understand your rant.

Good luck in the series.

  Getting 5 doesn't put Kobe above Shaq or Duncan as a player, just in terms of the number of titles.

[Finkelskyhook]

These guys are in front of these idiot reporters/journalists ad nauseum.  Answering stupid question after stupid question.  Kobe does as good a job as anybody answering them.    

Historical significance?  Who cares?  What moronic drivel comes out of jackson's mouth?  Who cares?  

Two great teams built for championships.  It'll be decided on the court.  

[incoherent]

I wouldn't say Kobe has more will then KG to win but he does actually have more game to back it up.  If KG does his karate chop intimidation move it's over for the Lakers.

[Roy Hobbs]

To me, no matter what Kobe does here, he's behind both Michael (overall) and Magic (with the Lakers).  Kobe has four rings, sure, but only one of them were with a team that was "his".  The 2000-era Lakers were dominated by Shaq.

Plus, Kobe's performance in the Finals just hasn't been that good:

2000 NBA Finals

Shaq- 38 PPG, 17 RPG, 2.5 APG, 2.7 BPG, 61% FG 96/157----6 games
Kobe-16 PPG, 5 RPG, 4 APG, 1.4 BPG, 36% FG%, 33/90----5 games

MVP = Shaq. 

2001 NBA Finals

Shaq- 33 PPG, 16 RPG, 5 APG, 3.5 BPG, 63/110 57% FG-----5 games
Kobe- 24 PPG, 8 RPG, 6 APG, 1.4 BPG, 44/106 41% FG------5 games

MVP = Shaq.

2002 NBA Finals

Shaq- 37 PPG, 12.25 RPG, 4 APG, 2.75 BPG, 50/84 60% FG----4 games
Kobe-26 PPG, 5.75 RPG, 5 APG, .75 BPG, 36/70 51% FG-------4 games

MVP = Shaq again. 

Total average stats for 3 championships (15 games)=

Shaq=36 PPG, 15.4 RPG, 3.7 APG, 3 BPG, 209/351 60% FG
Kobe=20 PPG, 6 RPG, 4.6 APG, 1 BPG, 113/266 42% FG

2004 NBA finals 5 games loss

Shaq= 27 PPG, 11 RPG, 2 APG, .6 BPG, 53/84 63% FG
Kobe=22 PPG, 3 RPG, 4 APG, .6 BPG, 43/113 38% FG

2008 NBA finals 6 games loss
Kobe= 25 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 5 APG, .16 BPG, 53/131 40% FG

2009 NBA finals 5 games win
Kobe= 32 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 7.4 AGP, 58/135, 42% FG

Those are good stats, but they're certainly not other-worldly.

[Edgar]

"LeBron james simply will not let his team lose"

[ACF]

"Dwyane Wade simply will not let his team lose."

"LeBron James simply will not let his team lose."

"Dwight Howard simply will not let his team lose."

"Kobe Bryant simply will not let his team lose."

Guess what, ESPN? Five is better than one.

 

[Fafnir]

Props to you for giving Kobe props.  Sure he's a polarizing figure but he will be one of the Greatest of our generation; most haters will let the hate get in the way.

Kobe is known for payback.  Revenge is a strong motivating factor and it not only applies to Kobe but to Phil, Fisher, Odom, Pau who were thoroughly embarrassed in 2008.

Motivating factors:
1) 39 point beatdown...that was embarrassing; no words to describe.  I personally think the Celtics should have let the Lakers off easier; but now the Lakers will want to repay that embarrassment.
2) Kobe knows if he wants to be better than Magic, he has to beat the Celtics.
3) Getting #5 puts Kobe above Shaq and Duncan
4) MJ

Kobe has the talent to win games...now he has even more motivation.  Kobe was upset with the Suns, he dropped 33 on them for the series.  Even if he has to give up shots and give out assists, he'll do what it takes to win.

It does sound ridiculous to give 1 player that much credit "won't let his team lose", I know so I can understand your rant.

Good luck in the series.

  Getting 5 doesn't put Kobe above Shaq or Duncan as a player, just in terms of the number of titles.

Or KG for that matter, LeBron and Wade should also at the end of their careers stack up at Kobe's level or above.