If Pierce wins another Finals MVP...

[Frezz]

Does that officially make him a top 5 all time Celtic?

We have a while before the Finals start so let's have a bar room discussion of Pauls legacy.

I admit that I'm biased seeing as I'm only 24 and he's the only true Celtic great that I've  really watched. The only reason I became a fan was because of Pierce. I loved Jordan, and when he retired I couldn't bring myself to stay a Bulls fan, so I needed something to grab onto, and that's when Pierce came along and I've been a C's fan since. So he's always going to be special for me.

But say he wins another championship and an MVP, does that put him right there in the top handful with Russell, Bird, Cousy and Hondo? Or does he need at least three rings, seeing as all of those four have at least three?

[Roy Hobbs]

I think the top three is set in stone.  Russell, Bird, Havlicek.  Pierce can't hang with that group.

In my opinion, the next group currently would be Cousy, Cowens, McHale.  I personally have Pierce ever-so-slightly below all the guys in that group, but I think he belongs on their level (which is no small feat, since Cousy and Cowens won MVPs, and McHale is regarded by many as a top-5 power forward of all time, with some calling him the best ever.)

EDIT:  Sam Jones belongs in the second tier, as well.  I'd have Pierce a bit ahead of Jones, but I may be underrating Sam since the only knowledge of him I have is film and history books.

[Bankshot]

I have Pierce as number 5 ahead of McHale.

[makaveli]

I don't think he has to win finals MVP to be in those type of conversations, this is a team, nobody really stands out.
Paul is my hero, a legend of this organization, and much like in the first post, he is the reason I love Boston and basketball in general, I'm 20 years of age and his game is like no other I've ever seen. Technique he owns is perfect, that spin move he uses and the pump fake is unique and can't be taught, he was born with that.
18 BABY!!!!

[ibby]

First if the Celtics do win I think the media has already pegged Rondo as MVP. Second I think people underrate Cousy. The top 4 are easily Russell, Bird, Cousy, and Havlicek in that order. Next is a little trickier, I would say Cowens then McHale. After that we can start talking about Pierce (with or without a second Finals MVP). Still with all the terrific Celtics it is hard to even crack the top 15, so even if he is at 7 that is a pretty good feat.

[wiley]

I'm not comfortable with this thread.....or this type of thread...very superstitious......carry on though

I'm going back to hiding out in the draft threads...

[vinnie]

My top 4 are Russell, Bird, Havlicek and Cousy (although never saw Couz play). I honestly do not see Pierce passing those 4. I would, however, put him at the next level with Jones, McHale and Parish. He is definitely a top 8 guy.

[Roy Hobbs]

My top 4 are Russell, Bird, Havlicek and Cousy (although never saw Couz play). I honestly do not see Pierce passing those 4. I would, however, put him at the next level with Jones, McHale and Parish. He is definitely a top 8 guy.

What about Cowens?  The guy was an MVP, after all.

[Brendan]

Another title - especially if he wins final MVP, I'd say he's 5th or 6th with McHale. I think McHale's stock goes down a bit since we've had an outbreak of GREAT PFs in the league. McHale changed the mold, but guys like Duncan, KG, Malone, maybe Barkley, are all clearly better. Additionally I have to factor in the shorter peak value, and really only being the best player on the team for maybe one year. Cooz gets bonus points for basically being the only great PG (until Rondo gets there.) McHale is the starting PF on the all time team, so he gets bonus points too.

Russell, Bird, Havs, Cooz, McHale would be my top 5 and starting 5.

Cowens - another guy with a short career, and minus points for flaking out and driving a cab.

Sam Jones - just don't know him.
Parish - minus points for playing on so many other teams.

Net of it is, Pierce ends up with two titles, 15 years as the best player / leader of the Celtics, high rankings on all the all time lists for the C's, two finals MVPs. I'd move him to fourth. Bird and Russel might be top 5 all time players in the NBA and Haveliceck is basically a Paul Pierce clone, just better across the board.

[PosImpos]

Here's a question:  Whose performance and ultimate result in these Finals will have a bigger effect on their legacy with their respective franchise - Kobe or Pierce?

[ibby]

Here's a question:  Whose performance and ultimate result in these Finals will have a bigger effect on their legacy with their respective franchise - Kobe or Pierce?

It's got to be Kobe.  Pierce is where he is, I don't know how many rings it would take to push him into that top 5 Category (Hondo, Cousy, Bird, Russell, whomever is the fifth).  Pierce is beloved and won a championship after years of playing for a team that was mediocre or just awful.

Meanwhile Kobe has always had a good team.  If Kobe can will his team to win it push him to a level of West and Magic, and I think past Kareem (how many championships did he have).  On a whole other level people will have to seriously start looking at him in the Jordan level.

[rondohondo]

Here's a question:  Whose performance and ultimate result in these Finals will have a bigger effect on their legacy with their respective franchise - Kobe or Pierce?

It's got to be Kobe.  Pierce is where he is, I don't know how many rings it would take to push him into that top 5 Category (Hondo, Cousy, Bird, Russell, whomever is the fifth).  Pierce is beloved and won a championship after years of playing for a team that was mediocre or just awful.

Meanwhile Kobe has always had a good team.  If Kobe can will his team to win it push him to a level of West and Magic, and I think past Kareem (how many championships did he have).  On a whole other level people will have to seriously start looking at him in the Jordan level.

kobe couldnt even make it out of the first round without shaq or gasol on his team(caron butler and odom were there so he had help) . He is a great player , but he is not MJ

[ibby]

Here's a question:  Whose performance and ultimate result in these Finals will have a bigger effect on their legacy with their respective franchise - Kobe or Pierce?

It's got to be Kobe.  Pierce is where he is, I don't know how many rings it would take to push him into that top 5 Category (Hondo, Cousy, Bird, Russell, whomever is the fifth).  Pierce is beloved and won a championship after years of playing for a team that was mediocre or just awful.

Meanwhile Kobe has always had a good team.  If Kobe can will his team to win it push him to a level of West and Magic, and I think past Kareem (how many championships did he have).  On a whole other level people will have to seriously start looking at him in the Jordan level.

kobe couldnt even make it out of the first round without shaq or gasol on his team(caron butler and odom were there so he had help) . He is a great player , but he is not MJ

I always say this when that is brought up, but Jordan didn't get out of the first round until he had Pippen (1987) and Horace Grant (1987), AND Bill Cartwright (1988).  In his first two playoff appearances he got swept out of the first round.

[nickagneta]

I don't think there's much Pierce could ever do at this point in his career to get any higher than 5th but, in all honesty, I don't think he'll ever get higher than 7th in my eyes.

Russell, Bird, Cousy, Havlicek are players he will never unseat so he has a chance at top 5.

In my eyes he may never surpass Cowens, McHale and Jones.

Now, I never saw Russell, Cousy or Jones play but being a Celtic fan, to me, meant getting to know the history of the team and I have read extensively about the team's history and so have a full appreciation for those three. I just don't see that their legacy's should be forgotten because the new guy that put up a ton of stats on bad teams got a bunch of younger fans to be Celtic fans.

Read up on your team history folks. Appreciate what those banners mean and who put them up there and what they had to persevere through to get them.

[SCBirdman]

Another title - especially if he wins final MVP, I'd say he's 5th or 6th with McHale. I think McHale's stock goes down a bit since we've had an outbreak of GREAT PFs in the league. McHale changed the mold, but guys like Duncan, KG, Malone, maybe Barkley, are all clearly better. Additionally I have to factor in the shorter peak value, and really only being the best player on the team for maybe one year. Cooz gets bonus points for basically being the only great PG (until Rondo gets there.) McHale is the starting PF on the all time team, so he gets bonus points too.

Russell, Bird, Havs, Cooz, McHale would be my top 5 and starting 5.

Cowens - another guy with a short career, and minus points for flaking out and driving a cab.

Sam Jones - just don't know him.
Parish - minus points for playing on so many other teams.

Net of it is, Pierce ends up with two titles, 15 years as the best player / leader of the Celtics, high rankings on all the all time lists for the C's, two finals MVPs. I'd move him to fourth. Bird and Russel might be top 5 all time players in the NBA and Haveliceck is basically a Paul Pierce clone, just better across the board.

First of all, Duncan is really a Center, and has been for most of his career. No way would I put Malone or Barkley ahead of McHale.Had he not played with Bird and Parrish, McHales numbers would have been unbelievable.

I vividly remember the Cowens, Jo Jo White, Hondo teams.

Pierce will always be outside of the top group, no matter how his career finishes. I certainly appreciate his loyalty to the organization.

My top 5 Celtics

Russell
Bird
Hondo
Cousey
Cowens

Next group

McHale
Parrish
Sam Jones
Tommy Heinson
Paul Pierce

Its hard to ignore all that Tommy did for the organization. He was a great player and great coach. Now he is the biggest homer in the NBA, and justifiably so. He reveres the greatest organization in the History of Professional Sports not names the Yankees.