Sheed or Carter

[fanofgreen]

I was talking with a co-worker the other day, and i told him, that it just dawned on me, that for all the flack Vince has gotten (most of it deserved) for not leading his teams to higher hieghts earlier in his career in Toronto, He always had crappy teams.

I mean when your 2nd best player is either Mo Peterson or Antonio Davis...I can imagine how discouraging it can be to try and play hard to win on a consistent night-in and night-out basis.

However this is not to justify his somewhat underachieving career, just merely and observation and statement.

Its Kinda of like, what would Rasheed's legacy be, had he not been traded from Atlanta to Detroit after that 1 game?

(sheed was traded from Portland to Atlanta,played 1 game, and then was traded from Atlanta to Detroit)

Carter is on a great team now, possibly a championship team if Carter gave them anything at all.

Yes that true, but this is his 1st great team of his career. Since 1998. so thats 12-13 years and only 1 championship caliber team.

As for Rasheed, he was on multiple Portland teams that were championship caliber - and multiple Piston teams that were champshionship caliber...At least 4 years in detroit, and probably 4 with Portland

[ibby]

I had forgotten that he and Carter played together at UNC and were considered to be the next Jordan (Carter) and the next James Worthy (Sheed) when they came out.

They didn't play together.  Wallace played with Stackhouse and Carter played with Jamison.  The 4 were never teammates though.

You're right.  Don't know why I made that mistake, but the two (Carter and Wallace) still have a lot of similarities as far as unfulfilled potential.

[SCBirdman]

Definitely Sheed because he has won an NBA title and will win his second in a couple of weeks. (Hopefully)

I coached Vince Carter at a camp when he was in HS and I think everything came so easy for him, he just never has learned how to play hard and maximize his abilities for a sustained period of time.

[ibby]

I was talking with a co-worker the other day, and i told him, that it just dawned on me, that for all the flack Vince has gotten (most of it deserved) for not leading his teams to higher hieghts earlier in his career in Toronto, He always had crappy teams.

He was on some pretty good teams in Jersey with Jason Kidd and Richard Hamilton.

[BballTim]

Both had 5-6 years of being top 15 players in the league. 

  No, they didn't.

[fanofgreen]

I was talking with a co-worker the other day, and i told him, that it just dawned on me, that for all the flack Vince has gotten (most of it deserved) for not leading his teams to higher hieghts earlier in his career in Toronto, He always had crappy teams.

He was on some pretty good teams in Jersey with Jason Kidd and Richard Hamilton.

I think you meant Richard Jefferson there.

But that team was super thin, after JKidd, Jefferson, and Carter, you drop off to like Kristic or somebody, that team was good, but not championship caliber.
 (mikki moore, Jason Collins, eddie House, Jeff McGinnis, uncle Cliff Robinson) other players in that new jersey rotation during those years.

On the other hand Sheed had: Pippen, Sabonis, Stoudamire, Bonzi, Brian Grant, Steve Smith, Detlef Schrempf,Derek  Anderson, Ruben Patterson, Antonio Daniels

[dlpin]

Yes that true, but this is his 1st great team of his career. Since 1998. so thats 12-13 years and only 1 championship caliber team.

As for Rasheed, he was on multiple Portland teams that were championship caliber - and multiple Piston teams that were champshionship caliber...At least 4 years in detroit, and probably 4 with Portland

He played with Kidd and Jefferson in NJ. And he actually played better in this year's playoffs in terms of shooting and turnovers than he did in 2 of those years with kidd.

Heck, that nets team swept the pistons in 03. By 05, the Pistons had sheed, a championship, and another EC championship coming, while the nets got carter and went nowhere.

[ibby]

Both had 5-6 years of being top 15 players in the league. 

  No, they didn't.

Carter from 2000 until at 2004 and from 2005 until 2007 was.  And Wallace from 2000 until his first year or 2 with the Pistons.  Maybe I should have said "arguably".

[ibby]

I was talking with a co-worker the other day, and i told him, that it just dawned on me, that for all the flack Vince has gotten (most of it deserved) for not leading his teams to higher hieghts earlier in his career in Toronto, He always had crappy teams.

I'm just mixing up their teammates left and right.  Yeah Jefferson not Hamilton.
He was on some pretty good teams in Jersey with Jason Kidd and Richard Hamilton.

I think you meant Richard Jefferson there.

But that team was super thin, after JKidd, Jefferson, and Carter, you drop off to like Kristic or somebody, that team was good, but not championship caliber.
 (mikki moore, Jason Collins, eddie House, Jeff McGinnis, uncle Cliff Robinson) other players in that new jersey rotation during those years.

On the other hand Sheed had: Pippen, Sabonis, Stoudamire, Bonzi, Brian Grant, Steve Smith, Detlef Schrempf,Derek  Anderson, Ruben Patterson, Antonio Daniels

[soap07]

I think most of us value being a key piece on a championship-level team more than we do putting up empty stats as a career loser.  Vince had his chance to prove his critics wrong this season, and he came up completely empty.

This is unbelievable. Rasheed Wallace has been a colossal disappointment almost his whole career, save for 2004. Vince has had the much better career and it's not really close. Sheed was an immense disappointment this year and he might even get a championship out of it because he's riding the backs of the Big 4, Perkins and Davis. I'm sure even Vince can be on a championship team by playing 12 minutes and using up all his fouls.

Come on.

Has Sheed had a better career than Steve Nash too? Nash has gone just as far as Vince in the playoffs.

Career loser is a ridiculous term. Barkley, Malone, Nash, etc.

And what is this about Sheed being a top 15 player ever in his career? When exactly was this?

I think Sheed has contributed once every four games or so as he was expected to, which is fine, but let's not blow this out of proportion. Let's not forget his time with the Blazers and what a headcase he was. Vince never was considered a locker room cancer. Let's not forget that outside of 2004, Rasheed quit on the Pistons and was part of a Detroit team that melted down against the Cavs. Let's not forget that Rasheed was terrible about 95% of this season. This is not close.

Has Vince lived up to his potential? No. But it's not even close to Rasheed's disappointment.

[soap07]

Definitely Sheed because he has won an NBA title and will win his second in a couple of weeks. (Hopefully)

Why stop there? Has Tayshaun (sp?) Prince had a better career than Carter as well? Rasho Nesterovic (sp?)?

[bruinsandceltics]

I think most of us value being a key piece on a championship-level team more than we do putting up empty stats as a career loser.  Vince had his chance to prove his critics wrong this season, and he came up completely empty.

This is unbelievable. Rasheed Wallace has been a colossal disappointment almost his whole career, save for 2004. Vince has had the much better career and it's not really close. Sheed was an immense disappointment this year and he might even get a championship out of it because he's riding the backs of the Big 4, Perkins and Davis. I'm sure even Vince can be on a championship team by playing 12 minutes and using up all his fouls.

Come on.

Has Sheed had a better career than Steve Nash too? Nash has gone just as far as Vince in the playoffs.

Career loser is a ridiculous term. Barkley, Malone, Nash, etc.

And what is this about Sheed being a top 15 player ever in his career? When exactly was this?

I think Sheed has contributed once every four games or so as he was expected to, which is fine, but let's not blow this out of proportion. Let's not forget his time with the Blazers and what a headcase he was. Vince never was considered a locker room cancer. Let's not forget that outside of 2004, Rasheed quit on the Pistons and was part of a Detroit team that melted down against the Cavs. Let's not forget that Rasheed was terrible about 95% of this season. This is not close.

Has Vince lived up to his potential? No. But it's not even close to Rasheed's disappointment.

I don't know what playoffs you have been watching, but Rasheed Wallace isn't riding on the backs of any of the Celtics.

Sure he sucked in the regular season, but he if plays like this in the Finals and we win a ring, he has earned every dollar of his salary for this year.

You can tell you are just biased and hateful against Sheed in this post.

[nickagneta]

Both had 5-6 years of being top 15 players in the league. 

  No, they didn't.

Gotta agree. Vince was a top 10 scorer but never a top 15 player.

Rasheed? I don't think he was ever close to a top 15 player.

During the 2000's I have

Shaq
Kobe
Pierce
Dirk
Duncan
KG
Iverson
Webber
Kidd
Nash
LeBron
Wade
Amare
Allen
Ben Wallace


All players I would easily rank as better than either Wallace or Carter during that period.

[wdleehi]

I think most of us value being a key piece on a championship-level team more than we do putting up empty stats as a career loser.  Vince had his chance to prove his critics wrong this season, and he came up completely empty.

This is unbelievable. Rasheed Wallace has been a colossal disappointment almost his whole career, save for 2004. Vince has had the much better career and it's not really close. Sheed was an immense disappointment this year and he might even get a championship out of it because he's riding the backs of the Big 4, Perkins and Davis. I'm sure even Vince can be on a championship team by playing 12 minutes and using up all his fouls.

Come on.

Has Sheed had a better career than Steve Nash too? Nash has gone just as far as Vince in the playoffs.

Career loser is a ridiculous term. Barkley, Malone, Nash, etc.

And what is this about Sheed being a top 15 player ever in his career? When exactly was this?

I think Sheed has contributed once every four games or so as he was expected to, which is fine, but let's not blow this out of proportion. Let's not forget his time with the Blazers and what a headcase he was. Vince never was considered a locker room cancer. Let's not forget that outside of 2004, Rasheed quit on the Pistons and was part of a Detroit team that melted down against the Cavs. Let's not forget that Rasheed was terrible about 95% of this season. This is not close.

Has Vince lived up to his potential? No. But it's not even close to Rasheed's disappointment.

Yet on those deep teams, it was said over and over, the team went the way Wallace went.


When NBA big men talked, they put him in the same level as KG, Duncan and Webber.

He was the guy players loved to play with. 


Remember in Portland, he wasn't the issue.  There were a ton of other players that were issues on and off the court.

[wdleehi]

Both had 5-6 years of being top 15 players in the league. 

  No, they didn't.

Gotta agree. Vince was a top 10 scorer but never a top 15 player.

Rasheed? I don't think he was ever close to a top 15 player.

During the 2000's I have

Shaq
Kobe
Pierce
Dirk
Duncan
KG
Iverson
Webber
Kidd
Nash
LeBron
Wade
Amare
Allen
Ben Wallace


All players I would easily rank as better than either Wallace or Carter during that period.

Amare?  Sure, he put up more points, Wallace actually played defense.