Redemption

[nickagneta]

How else can one describe the feeling that anyone who is on the Boston Celtics, associated with the Boston Celtics, works for the Boston Celtics or is just a fan of the Boston Celtics must be feeling right now? It's redemption.

What is redemption? Well, Roman Catholics like to think that redemption is the act of suffering as a way of having one's sins absolved. Well, is there any clearer definition in a non-religious setting of what has occurred for the Celtics and the people that love and follow that team?

Ever since KG got hurt and this team fell short of its quest for back to back title last year, people having been question their ability, resolve, tenacity, heart, health, talent level and what they had left in the tank. They questioned KG's ability to bounce back. They questioned Ray's age. They questioned Rasheed's heart. They questioned Rondo's attitude. They questioned just about everything about this team.

And after the Boston Celtics went into a tailspin after Christmas Day, no less, those people piled on. Their voices became louder and more vociferous and their voices started making even the most ardent and devoted in the Celtic World doubt that this team could do what they all hoped and thought they could.

But through suffering, those that followed and loved and believed in the Green team have been redeemed.

The Boston Celtics are back in the NBA Finals and as their coach said last night "This starting group has never lost a series!!" And, he's correct. When together and intact, this group is undefeated in its quest for gold.

So sit back Celtics fans. There will be a small flood of Celtic love coming our way as people sit back and try to explain why they were wrong and yet why they will ultimately be right because there's no way the Celtics can win it all. Let them. We will all just sit back and feel redemption. And such a sweet feeling it is.

[ACF]

Well said, nick. You earned another Tommy Point.

The only thing that saddens me a bit is if (I know, "ifs"...) KG's knee had not decided to let us all down, we'd now be talking about the possibility of a threepeat. Alas, it was not to be. At least we know that the 2009 championship will always have an * to it. That makes me happy and proud.

[Bahku]

Good stuff, Nick. TP.

[Roy Hobbs]

The only thing I'd change in your post, nick, is the word "they" to a collective "we".

You're absolutely right:  redemption is the word.  Allow me to quote from Adande at the beginning of the playoffs:

MOST READY TO BE EUTHANIZED AND EULOGIZED: Boston Celtics

The only case for extending their season into the second round of the playoffs is to see them go against the Cavaliers, based on all the vitriol that emanated from their last meeting. Otherwise, they've passed their expiration date.

. . . they need to get this over with as quickly as possible because there won't be any gallant last stand. They don't have the same ferocious defense or unmistakable camaraderie. Now there are reports that coach Doc Rivers is ready to leave. Rivers called it "old news." He called it "a nonissue, for me, right now." He didn't call it "untrue."

He should move on. Everyone who can should. Call in the crew that handled the old Boston Garden demolition and let them take this roster apart. The painful part is that Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace still have two years remaining on their contracts, worth almost half the salary cap between them. This won't be enjoyable to watch. Hopefully, there's as little programming as possible.

[Drucci]

The only thing I'd change in your post, nick, is the word "they" to a collective "we".

You're absolutely right:  redemption is the word.  Allow me to quote from Adande at the beginning of the playoffs:

MOST READY TO BE EUTHANIZED AND EULOGIZED: Boston Celtics

The only case for extending their season into the second round of the playoffs is to see them go against the Cavaliers, based on all the vitriol that emanated from their last meeting. Otherwise, they've passed their expiration date.

. . . they need to get this over with as quickly as possible because there won't be any gallant last stand. They don't have the same ferocious defense or unmistakable camaraderie. Now there are reports that coach Doc Rivers is ready to leave. Rivers called it "old news." He called it "a nonissue, for me, right now." He didn't call it "untrue."

He should move on. Everyone who can should. Call in the crew that handled the old Boston Garden demolition and let them take this roster apart. The painful part is that Kevin Garnett and Rasheed Wallace still have two years remaining on their contracts, worth almost half the salary cap between them. This won't be enjoyable to watch. Hopefully, there's as little programming as possible.

Adande and Hollinger are the biggest jokes among the ESPN "experts" but this article from Adande was... wow. Just defines "epic fail".

[GreenFaith1819]

Nice write-up, Nick.

The lady who laughed at my Celtics T-Shirt while I was at the bank yesterday afternoon must be shaking her head right now...she is probably thinking:

"Man, those Celtics did it again!! Dang them .

I predict that we will get some love from ESPN, but just like 07-08 most of the writers will pick LA.

No worries from this end.

Again - really nice writeup, Nick.

[nickagneta]

The only thing I'd change in your post, nick, is the word "they" to a collective "we".

What exactly are you trying to say?

[Roy Hobbs]

The only thing I'd change in your post, nick, is the word "they" to a collective "we".

What exactly are you trying to say?

Your post makes it sound like the "people" criticizing the team weren't Celtics fans.  Especially here:

Ever since KG got hurt and this team fell short of its quest for back to back title last year, people having been question their ability, resolve, tenacity, heart, health, talent level and what they had left in the tank. They questioned KG's ability to bounce back. They questioned Ray's age. They questioned Rasheed's heart. They questioned Rondo's attitude. They questioned just about everything about this team.

And after the Boston Celtics went into a tailspin after Christmas Day, no less, those people piled on. Their voices became louder and more vociferous and their voices started making even the most ardent and devoted in the Celtic World doubt that this team could do what they all hoped and thought they could.

If you replace every "they" with "we", it more accurately reflects the situation.  Celtics fans questioned KG.  They questioned Ray.  They questioned Rasheed and Rondo.  They questioned this team's ability to win.

I think every person on this board, at one point or another, doubted this team's ability to win at some point this season.  It's not a situation where we (collectively) all uniformly believed, and now we can gloat because we were the ones who were right all along.  Celtics fans (collectively) lost faith as well, whether that was a momentary loss, or a full-on departure from the team.

Continuing on the religious analogy from the original post, many fans went astray, and their faith was shaken / broken.  Since the playoffs started, many have been "born again".

I guess I just disagree a bit with the "it was us against the world" vibe I got from the thread.  It wasn't just outside critics attacking our team, it was collectively we, the fans, and that's okay; at times the criticism was justified.  However, I'd just add that the critics aren't the only ones this team is proving wrong, and when we're talking about this team being redeemed in the eyes of the world, that begins right here at home.

[Birdbrain]

' We ' should probably all speak for ourselves.  I'll take solace in knowing I never doubted them.  Call me a homer if you like but, I thought they were going to win the Championship all year.  I realized it would be hard but, I believed they had the most talent.  And until they are eliminated I won't stray from that belief.

[nickagneta]

The only thing I'd change in your post, nick, is the word "they" to a collective "we".

What exactly are you trying to say?

Your post makes it sound like the "people" criticizing the team weren't Celtics fans.  Especially here:

Ever since KG got hurt and this team fell short of its quest for back to back title last year, people having been question their ability, resolve, tenacity, heart, health, talent level and what they had left in the tank. They questioned KG's ability to bounce back. They questioned Ray's age. They questioned Rasheed's heart. They questioned Rondo's attitude. They questioned just about everything about this team.

And after the Boston Celtics went into a tailspin after Christmas Day, no less, those people piled on. Their voices became louder and more vociferous and their voices started making even the most ardent and devoted in the Celtic World doubt that this team could do what they all hoped and thought they could.

If you replace every "they" with "we", it more accurately reflects the situation.  Celtics fans questioned KG.  They questioned Ray.  They questioned Rasheed and Rondo.  They questioned this team's ability to win.

I think every person on this board, at one point or another, doubted this team's ability to win at some point this season.  It's not a situation where we (collectively) all uniformly believed, and now we can gloat because we were the ones who were right all along.  Celtics fans (collectively) lost faith as well, whether that was a momentary loss, or a full-on departure from the team.

Continuing on the religious analogy from the original post, many fans went astray, and their faith was shaken / broken.  Since the playoffs started, many have been "born again".

I guess I just disagree a bit with the "it was us against the world" vibe I got from the thread.  It wasn't just outside critics attacking our team, it was collectively we, the fans, and that's okay; at times the criticism was justified.  However, I'd just add that the critics aren't the only ones this team is proving wrong, and when we're talking about this team being redeemed in the eyes of the world, that begins right here at home.

Oh, now I understand.

Yeah, excellent point.

I like many, no, make that like most here, had my doubts and said I didn't believe that they had what it took to win it this year. Who among us can truthfully say that they never doubted this team's chances? Heck, Ray Allen said just last night that Doc kept the team believing when even they started doubting in themselves. I guess that makes most of us no different from the Celtics players.

But I guess the way I'm looking at it, Roy, is that there is a definite difference between Celtics fans having those doubts and the people I was referring to. Once the Celtics dismantled Miami, just about every doubter among us became "re-born" as you say. We witnessed a clear change in the subtleties and characteristics in the way this team was performing and realized that this team actually could just turn it on.

But as much as Celtic fans doubt were assuaged, the pundits and basketball people that never believed, ever, still wrote this team off. Still "hated" as the younger generation likes to say. This thread is referring to those that never, ever, believed in this team. The ones that as the evidence started to mount up that this team was for real still went out of their way to sew doubt and discord. Those that said there was no way they beat Cleveland or no way they beat Orlando. Those that will say there's no way they will beat LA or Phoenix.

That is who this thread is referring to Roy.

[Roy Hobbs]

The only thing I'd change in your post, nick, is the word "they" to a collective "we".

What exactly are you trying to say?

Your post makes it sound like the "people" criticizing the team weren't Celtics fans.  Especially here:

Ever since KG got hurt and this team fell short of its quest for back to back title last year, people having been question their ability, resolve, tenacity, heart, health, talent level and what they had left in the tank. They questioned KG's ability to bounce back. They questioned Ray's age. They questioned Rasheed's heart. They questioned Rondo's attitude. They questioned just about everything about this team.

And after the Boston Celtics went into a tailspin after Christmas Day, no less, those people piled on. Their voices became louder and more vociferous and their voices started making even the most ardent and devoted in the Celtic World doubt that this team could do what they all hoped and thought they could.

If you replace every "they" with "we", it more accurately reflects the situation.  Celtics fans questioned KG.  They questioned Ray.  They questioned Rasheed and Rondo.  They questioned this team's ability to win.

I think every person on this board, at one point or another, doubted this team's ability to win at some point this season.  It's not a situation where we (collectively) all uniformly believed, and now we can gloat because we were the ones who were right all along.  Celtics fans (collectively) lost faith as well, whether that was a momentary loss, or a full-on departure from the team.

Continuing on the religious analogy from the original post, many fans went astray, and their faith was shaken / broken.  Since the playoffs started, many have been "born again".

I guess I just disagree a bit with the "it was us against the world" vibe I got from the thread.  It wasn't just outside critics attacking our team, it was collectively we, the fans, and that's okay; at times the criticism was justified.  However, I'd just add that the critics aren't the only ones this team is proving wrong, and when we're talking about this team being redeemed in the eyes of the world, that begins right here at home.

Oh, now I understand.

Yeah, excellent point.

I like many, no, make that like most here, had my doubts and said I didn't believe that they had what it took to win it this year. Who among us can truthfully say that they never doubted this team's chances? Heck, Ray Allen said just last night that Doc kept the team believing when even they started doubting in themselves. I guess that makes most of us no different from the Celtics players.

But I guess the way I'm looking at it, Roy, is that there is a definite difference between Celtics fans having those doubts and the people I was referring to. Once the Celtics dismantled Miami, just about every doubter among us became "re-born" as you say. We witnessed a clear change in the subtleties and characteristics in the way this team was performing and realized that this team actually could just turn it on.

But as much as Celtic fans doubt were assuaged, the pundits and basketball people that never believed, ever, still wrote this team off. Still "hated" as the younger generation likes to say. This thread is referring to those that never, ever, believed in this team. The ones that as the evidence started to mount up that this team was for real still went out of their way to sew doubt and discord. Those that said there was no way they beat Cleveland or no way they beat Orlando. Those that will say there's no way they will beat LA or Phoenix.

That is who this thread is referring to Roy.

Well said, nick.  TP.

[Casperian]

But as much as Celtic fans doubt were assuaged, the pundits and basketball people that never believed, ever, still wrote this team off. Still "hated" as the younger generation likes to say. This thread is referring to those that never, ever, believed in this team. The ones that as the evidence started to mount up that this team was for real still went out of their way to sew doubt and discord. Those that said there was no way they beat Cleveland or no way they beat Orlando. Those that will say there's no way they will beat LA or Phoenix.

That is who this thread is referring to Roy.

So, basically everyone who didn´t start to believe when you did?  

I´m sorry, nick, but the "doubters" are all different people with different opinions. Some were worried about Cleveland, but not Orlando, and vice-versa.

I have to wonder why every big win or loss of the Celtics is followed by a "how do you like them apples" thread. Why do people have to document publically that they´ve changed their mind or were wrong about things and demand of others to do the same?

I mean, let us enjoy the ride while it lasts and worry about "who has to take responsibility" later.

[nickagneta]

But as much as Celtic fans doubt were assuaged, the pundits and basketball people that never believed, ever, still wrote this team off. Still "hated" as the younger generation likes to say. This thread is referring to those that never, ever, believed in this team. The ones that as the evidence started to mount up that this team was for real still went out of their way to sew doubt and discord. Those that said there was no way they beat Cleveland or no way they beat Orlando. Those that will say there's no way they will beat LA or Phoenix.

That is who this thread is referring to Roy.

So, basically everyone who didn´t start to believe when you did?  

I´m sorry, nick, but the "doubters" are all different people with different opinions. Some were worried about Cleveland, but not Orlando, and vice-versa.

I have to wonder why every big win or loss of the Celtics is followed by a "how do you like them apples" thread. Why do people have to document publically that they´ve changed their mind or were wrong about things and demand of others to do the same?

I mean, let us enjoy the ride while it lasts and worry about "who has to take responsibility" later.

I don't know why people are trying to change this thread into another inter-Celticblog spat when it was never intended in that vein. As I stated, this thread was geared towards those that NEVER EVER believed in this team. Those in the media and across the country that ALWAYS hated and doubted and called this team too old or too hurt or too whatever.

This thread has nothing to do with any internal Celticsblog strife and was never meant in that vein and I wish people would stop trying to make it into that type of message. That was never what it was meant as.

[Jon]

I think too many people wanted to draw parallels between this team and the Bird teams that fell apart due to injury.  However, there's a few things to remember.

1) Our injury problems this year were nowhere nearly as serious or career-threatening.

2) Our injuries were nowhere near as pervasive (where Bird, McHale, and Walton all fell apart). 

3) Less time had elapsed.  I think people forget even when Bird and McHale were hurt, they were still darn competitive in the late '80s.  It wasn't until the early '90s when things started to fall apart.  With this team, it had been months, not years, since they were legitimate NBA contenders.