Tim Donaghy on tonights game...

[connerhenry43]

please see the 60 minute story

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2009/12/tim-donaghy-interview-on-60-minutes-video/

when TD said he never personally influenced a game, i said no way. but when the fbi investigated him and came to the same conclusion, i tend to believe them.


donaghy went to jail for taking money from gamblers in exchange for inside information. the refs and the assignments in the nba are so predictable, he was able to predict 85% winners just based on his inside knowledge of the game, the refs, and who favors who.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2008-07-29-donaghy-sentence_N.htm

like canseco, he is no saint, far from it. but one of the problems with the way the media has handled the story (kid gloves because stern plays puppet master with them) is that people think he bet on games, or he rigged games. he did bet on games, but there is no evidence, and as far as I know not  even allegations, that he himself rigged games.

[connerhenry43]

i believe donaghy more than I do the NBA, Stern, Stu Jackson, Joey Crawford, Ed T. Rush et al...

amen to that.

the problem is this: stern cannot come out and publicly say "hey our refs stink, we have a huge problem." i do have to wonder what he says about them behind closed doors. if he truly believe they are doing a good job, it is laughable.

I hate how David Stern's insistence on ignoring the (growing) public outcry about officiating puts us fans in a position where we scrutinize referee assignments and look to scum like Donaghy for wisdom.

[looseball]

Love it.  I will repeat this every time a new thread pops up with his name in it.

Tim Donaghy is the new Jose Canseco!

In 10 years, he will be seen in a similar light.  Still a dirtball, but the only honest guy among a group of thieves.

You think Donaghy is honest?

Canseco admitted he did something illegal, because everyone was doing it.  Donaghy still claims that he never fixed games.

He's a liar and a criminal.  People shouldn't hold him up to be something more than he is.

ray, usually i luv ya, but the fbi investigated donaghy. they said they found no evidence he fixed games on his own. i think the canseco analogy is a very good one. i trust donaghy more than stern, i will tell you that.

What do you think Donaghy went to prison for?  Legally betting on games, even if it was against NBA rules?  That's not a federal crime.

Donaghy helped organized crime fix basketball games, so that he and other criminals would profit.  He can claim that he only "traded inside information" all he wants, but I find it very, very unlikely that he never blew a whistle to win a bet.  In fact, the FBI charged that he "compromised his objectivity as a referee because of his personal financial interest in the outcome of NBA games." 

The league (and its sponsors) need the fans to believe the games cannot be fixed.  There are millions of dollars riding on this belief.  What better way to reinforce this belief than have the fbi, itself, "prove" there was never a fix.

[Roy Hobbs]

please see the 60 minute story

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2009/12/tim-donaghy-interview-on-60-minutes-video/

when TD said he never personally influenced a game, i said no way. but when the fbi investigated him and came to the same conclusion, i tend to believe them.


donaghy went to jail for taking money from gamblers in exchange for inside information. the refs and the assignments in the nba are so predictable, he was able to predict 85% winners just based on his inside knowledge of the game, the refs, and who favors who.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2008-07-29-donaghy-sentence_N.htm

like canseco, he is no saint, far from it. but one of the problems with the way the media has handled the story (kid gloves because stern plays puppet master with them) is that people think he bet on games, or he rigged games. he did bet on games, but there is no evidence, and as far as I know not  even allegations, that he himself rigged games.

I don't have time to watch the whole 60 minutes story.  Is somebody from the FBI on record saying that he never influenced games, or is that Donaghy's self-serving claim?

The charges filed against Donaghy certainly don't clear him of influencing games, and since it's a crime to file a false complaint against somebody, I'd be willing to bet that the FBI had more evidence than Donaghy is now claiming.

Of course, at one point Pete Rose claimed that he never bet on baseball, too.  When Donaghy is running low on money in the future, he'll write another book talking about the games he personally influenced.  Right now, though, he's happy to pretend that he was the one honest official in a den of thieves, despite being the only one to serve prison time (for, again, his ties to organized crime.)

EDIT:  And, as looseball says above, I'm sure that if the FBI is keeping quiet about this stuff, it's out of deference to the NBA (who worked closely with the FBI in the investigation).  It wouldn't shock me at all if part of the NBA's agreement to let the FBI monitor Donaghy included a "keep hush" provision.

[shookones99]

I think if they can fix a Presidential Election in Fl. They can fix an NBA game there.

Heheh  TP   Sure they can TRY and fix games.  I just don't think they have as much  control over games as people seem to think they do.  In the end it is completely up to the players to win or lose regardless of whatever the agenda of the refs may be.

[looseball]

It's a pretty sad commentary that over the last few days CB discussion, and discussion in many other places, is dominated by officiating - competence, bias, everything up to taking orders from Stern to extend series.

Put all of this in context (Donaghy, the recent study about referees' racial biases, Crawford's antics, inconsistent treatment of play/behavior from play to play and game to game, etc. etc.) and this reveals a pattern that is hugely problematic for a league that otherwise has nearly everything going for it

I think the only real solution is for Stern to step up to the plate and clean house this summer. Anything less, and this will continue to undermine what is otherwise the greatest sports entertainment this country has to offer.

The 1st one who needs to go is Stern!

I don't think Stern is clean enough to do the house cleaning, himself.

[Jack_Frost]

I'll make it clear:

I don't want to win this game because of Stern
I don't want to win this game because of ratings
I don't want to win this game because of the referees

We MUST play better than them, this is the only way i know to win

[Birdbrain]

"Orlando should dust off their golf clubs"

Per EEI.

Just sayinnnnnnnnnn.

Flying elbows aren't enough? Now they have to go after our guys with golf clubs?

That ain't right.

haha classic.  I wish someone took a golf club to Donaghey's head.

according to him he got worse durin his time in real jail

Yes I'm sure he did.  I can imagine someone that may have lost money in one of his reffed games giving him that ' special prison treatment '.  Couldn't have happen to nicer guy. 

[Andy Jick]

Half of the big show will be set tonight.  Stern got the Lakers one game away from a meeting with the Celtics.

He wants the ratings, and a Celtics / Lakers series will make him more $$$ than a Suns / Magic series.  That's how David rolls (which is why Perk got is tech rescinded).

Donaghy has an inside track on this...

The NBA...Where Fixed Happens.

I want those voiceover commercials (where they dub them to the music) to have one with the referees in their conference room before the game.  That would be so revealing...

Cavs Lakers didn't happen last year and that would have made way more money than Magic Lakers so I don't buy your theory.

It was a joke...  I do NOT believe the NBA fixes a specific game.  But I DO believe the referees can impact a series and what a dreadful thing to hear that, behind closed doors, they are provided ultimatums by the league to do so.  But ultimately it's up to a team to make shots and wise decisions.  The truth is probably somewhere in the middle...

[kevbo]

please see the 60 minute story

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2009/12/tim-donaghy-interview-on-60-minutes-video/

when TD said he never personally influenced a game, i said no way. but when the fbi investigated him and came to the same conclusion, i tend to believe them.


donaghy went to jail for taking money from gamblers in exchange for inside information. the refs and the assignments in the nba are so predictable, he was able to predict 85% winners just based on his inside knowledge of the game, the refs, and who favors who.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2008-07-29-donaghy-sentence_N.htm

like canseco, he is no saint, far from it. but one of the problems with the way the media has handled the story (kid gloves because stern plays puppet master with them) is that people think he bet on games, or he rigged games. he did bet on games, but there is no evidence, and as far as I know not  even allegations, that he himself rigged games.

I don't have time to watch the whole 60 minutes story.  Is somebody from the FBI on record saying that he never influenced games, or is that Donaghy's self-serving claim?

The charges filed against Donaghy certainly don't clear him of influencing games, and since it's a crime to file a false complaint against somebody, I'd be willing to bet that the FBI had more evidence than Donaghy is now claiming.

Of course, at one point Pete Rose claimed that he never bet on baseball, too.  When Donaghy is running low on money in the future, he'll write another book talking about the games he personally influenced.  Right now, though, he's happy to pretend that he was the one honest official in a den of thieves, despite being the only one to serve prison time (for, again, his ties to organized crime.)

EDIT:  And, as looseball says above, I'm sure that if the FBI is keeping quiet about this stuff, it's out of deference to the NBA (who worked closely with the FBI in the investigation).  It wouldn't shock me at all if part of the NBA's agreement to let the FBI monitor Donaghy included a "keep hush" provision.

RH, you are one of my favorite CBloggers but in this instance, can you explain your logic a bit more? Paraphrasing, hopefully correctly, that your main thrust is not to believe Donaghy, as he lies about not fixing games. Yet you agree that perhaps the FBI is keeping his game fixing quiet out of deference to NBA, which I'm presuming doesn't want that info out publicly.

Logically, that scenario would mean that the NBA is then lying to the public to protect its financial standing when they support the FBI's findings that Donaghy didn't fix games and that he was acting alone. So if Donaghy DID fix games, then the NBA is lying with the FBI's corroboration about Donaghy NOT fixing games. So, if I'm parsing the logic correctly, if Donaghy's lying, then the NBA is also. So does that not ultimately undermine public trust in the NBA's on-court product?

Conversely, if Donaghy's telling the truth about NOT fixing games, then the NBA and FBI are also telling the truth claiming that he did not fix games. Everyone becomes more credible.

I'm not saying I believe Donaghy, as he's a grandstanding persona IMO, but I'm a bit confused about how his lying bolsters the NBA's credibility.

[liam]

I really don't know what to believe at this point.  I go back and forth on my feelings about the refs, david stern, and this whole conspiracy.  

When I first read those excerpts from Donaghy's book, I was definitely suspicious.  And it makes sense from a business standpoint to want to stretch out these series.

But the thing that ultimately makes me believe that these games are officiated fairly and legitimately are the players reactions.  They know what goes on out on the floor.  While they complain nonstop about the calls, you never hear a word from them about games being fixed, or the officiating deciding the outcome.  From a fan's perspective it's easy to make a case for unfair officiating in almost any game.  But if the players, who are the ones actually out on the floor, and would be far more upset about it than any fan, aren't saying anything, then I find it hard to believe that there is actually anything going on among the refs to try and help one team win the game.

They can't speak out. Look at that LA vs Sac game in 2002. A lot of people spoke out and nothing happened. I didn't even have a rooting interest in that game but anyone who watched it knew it was fixed. Players don't speak out because they don't want a fine, or to be drummed out of the League, or be treated like Sheed. ( who almost came to blows with Douaghy after a game. ) Sheed has always spoken out about this. No one wants to listen because the only ones who pay attention all love the NBA and don't want to see it destroyed by scandal. I know I love watching nba basketball when it's fairly officiated and well played. Which I think is becoming very rare. I think if they can fix a Presidential Election in Fl. They can fix an NBA game there.

[Mr October]

I really don't know what to believe at this point.  I go back and forth on my feelings about the refs, david stern, and this whole conspiracy. 

When I first read those excerpts from Donaghy's book, I was definitely suspicious.  And it makes sense from a business standpoint to want to stretch out these series.

But the thing that ultimately makes me believe that these games are officiated fairly and legitimately are the players reactions.  They know what goes on out on the floor.  While they complain nonstop about the calls, you never hear a word from them about games being fixed, or the officiating deciding the outcome.  From a fan's perspective it's easy to make a case for unfair officiating in almost any game.  But if the players, who are the ones actually out on the floor, and would be far more upset about it than any fan, aren't saying anything, then I find it hard to believe that there is actually anything going on among the refs to try and help one team win the game.

What can the players say? If they even go within a mile of this subject, David Stern fines the pants off of them.

Stern has shut everyone up. Players, coaches, owners and the mainstream national media.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is preferential treatment for stars (including Howard's elbow freedom), and a desire to extend series for the sake of making money. There are tens of millions of dollars on the line. And everyone has to be quiet about it.

[connerhenry43]

please see the 60 minute story

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2009/12/tim-donaghy-interview-on-60-minutes-video/

when TD said he never personally influenced a game, i said no way. but when the fbi investigated him and came to the same conclusion, i tend to believe them.


donaghy went to jail for taking money from gamblers in exchange for inside information. the refs and the assignments in the nba are so predictable, he was able to predict 85% winners just based on his inside knowledge of the game, the refs, and who favors who.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2008-07-29-donaghy-sentence_N.htm

like canseco, he is no saint, far from it. but one of the problems with the way the media has handled the story (kid gloves because stern plays puppet master with them) is that people think he bet on games, or he rigged games. he did bet on games, but there is no evidence, and as far as I know not  even allegations, that he himself rigged games.

I don't have time to watch the whole 60 minutes story.  Is somebody from the FBI on record saying that he never influenced games, or is that Donaghy's self-serving claim?

The charges filed against Donaghy certainly don't clear him of influencing games, and since it's a crime to file a false complaint against somebody, I'd be willing to bet that the FBI had more evidence than Donaghy is now claiming.

Of course, at one point Pete Rose claimed that he never bet on baseball, too.  When Donaghy is running low on money in the future, he'll write another book talking about the games he personally influenced.  Right now, though, he's happy to pretend that he was the one honest official in a den of thieves, despite being the only one to serve prison time (for, again, his ties to organized crime.)

EDIT:  And, as looseball says above, I'm sure that if the FBI is keeping quiet about this stuff, it's out of deference to the NBA (who worked closely with the FBI in the investigation).  It wouldn't shock me at all if part of the NBA's agreement to let the FBI monitor Donaghy included a "keep hush" provision.

yes, an fbi agent says they looked and looked and he never bet games. i could be naive but i believe him. donaghy no.....an fbi agent yes.

all this being said, let's win tonight so we can all get along again! 

[Birdbrain]

please see the 60 minute story

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2009/12/tim-donaghy-interview-on-60-minutes-video/

when TD said he never personally influenced a game, i said no way. but when the fbi investigated him and came to the same conclusion, i tend to believe them.


donaghy went to jail for taking money from gamblers in exchange for inside information. the refs and the assignments in the nba are so predictable, he was able to predict 85% winners just based on his inside knowledge of the game, the refs, and who favors who.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2008-07-29-donaghy-sentence_N.htm

like canseco, he is no saint, far from it. but one of the problems with the way the media has handled the story (kid gloves because stern plays puppet master with them) is that people think he bet on games, or he rigged games. he did bet on games, but there is no evidence, and as far as I know not  even allegations, that he himself rigged games.

I don't have time to watch the whole 60 minutes story.  Is somebody from the FBI on record saying that he never influenced games, or is that Donaghy's self-serving claim?

The charges filed against Donaghy certainly don't clear him of influencing games, and since it's a crime to file a false complaint against somebody, I'd be willing to bet that the FBI had more evidence than Donaghy is now claiming.

Of course, at one point Pete Rose claimed that he never bet on baseball, too.  When Donaghy is running low on money in the future, he'll write another book talking about the games he personally influenced.  Right now, though, he's happy to pretend that he was the one honest official in a den of thieves, despite being the only one to serve prison time (for, again, his ties to organized crime.)

EDIT:  And, as looseball says above, I'm sure that if the FBI is keeping quiet about this stuff, it's out of deference to the NBA (who worked closely with the FBI in the investigation).  It wouldn't shock me at all if part of the NBA's agreement to let the FBI monitor Donaghy included a "keep hush" provision.

RH, you are one of my favorite CBloggers but in this instance, can you explain your logic a bit more? Paraphrasing, hopefully correctly, that your main thrust is not to believe Donaghy, as he lies about not fixing games. Yet you agree that perhaps the FBI is keeping his game fixing quiet out of deference to NBA, which I'm presuming doesn't want that info out publicly.

Logically, that scenario would mean that the NBA is then lying to the public to protect its financial standing when they support the FBI's findings that Donaghy didn't fix games and that he was acting alone. So if Donaghy DID fix games, then the NBA is lying with the FBI's corroboration about Donaghy NOT fixing games. So, if I'm parsing the logic correctly, if Donaghy's lying, then the NBA is also. So does that not ultimately undermine public trust in the NBA's on-court product?

Conversely, if Donaghy's telling the truth about NOT fixing games, then the NBA and FBI are also telling the truth claiming that he did not fix games. Everyone becomes more credible.

I'm not saying I believe Donaghy, as he's a grandstanding persona IMO, but I'm a bit confused about how his lying bolsters the NBA's credibility.

His lying implicates more people making himself not look as dirty as most believe he is.  If everyone is dirty than this dirtball is just one of the crew and not some rogue ref as per Stern.  He's the only slime ball the FBI found to be betting on the outcomes. 

He should just go away and die.

[Roy Hobbs]

please see the 60 minute story

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2009/12/tim-donaghy-interview-on-60-minutes-video/

when TD said he never personally influenced a game, i said no way. but when the fbi investigated him and came to the same conclusion, i tend to believe them.


donaghy went to jail for taking money from gamblers in exchange for inside information. the refs and the assignments in the nba are so predictable, he was able to predict 85% winners just based on his inside knowledge of the game, the refs, and who favors who.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2008-07-29-donaghy-sentence_N.htm

like canseco, he is no saint, far from it. but one of the problems with the way the media has handled the story (kid gloves because stern plays puppet master with them) is that people think he bet on games, or he rigged games. he did bet on games, but there is no evidence, and as far as I know not  even allegations, that he himself rigged games.

I don't have time to watch the whole 60 minutes story.  Is somebody from the FBI on record saying that he never influenced games, or is that Donaghy's self-serving claim?

The charges filed against Donaghy certainly don't clear him of influencing games, and since it's a crime to file a false complaint against somebody, I'd be willing to bet that the FBI had more evidence than Donaghy is now claiming.

Of course, at one point Pete Rose claimed that he never bet on baseball, too.  When Donaghy is running low on money in the future, he'll write another book talking about the games he personally influenced.  Right now, though, he's happy to pretend that he was the one honest official in a den of thieves, despite being the only one to serve prison time (for, again, his ties to organized crime.)

EDIT:  And, as looseball says above, I'm sure that if the FBI is keeping quiet about this stuff, it's out of deference to the NBA (who worked closely with the FBI in the investigation).  It wouldn't shock me at all if part of the NBA's agreement to let the FBI monitor Donaghy included a "keep hush" provision.

RH, you are one of my favorite CBloggers but in this instance, can you explain your logic a bit more? Paraphrasing, hopefully correctly, that your main thrust is not to believe Donaghy, as he lies about not fixing games. Yet you agree that perhaps the FBI is keeping his game fixing quiet out of deference to NBA, which I'm presuming doesn't want that info out publicly.

Logically, that scenario would mean that the NBA is then lying to the public to protect its financial standing when they support the FBI's findings that Donaghy didn't fix games and that he was acting alone. So if Donaghy DID fix games, then the NBA is lying with the FBI's corroboration about Donaghy NOT fixing games. So, if I'm parsing the logic correctly, if Donaghy's lying, then the NBA is also. So does that not ultimately undermine public trust in the NBA's on-court product?

Conversely, if Donaghy's telling the truth about NOT fixing games, then the NBA and FBI are also telling the truth claiming that he did not fix games. Everyone becomes more credible.

I'm not saying I believe Donaghy, as he's a grandstanding persona IMO, but I'm a bit confused about how his lying bolsters the NBA's credibility.

I think Donaghy has no credibility; he's a cheat and a liar.

That does not mean, however, that I'm 100% on board with the NBA.  At the very least, they've been reluctant to adjust referee issues and have buried their head in the sand.  The NBA has made little attempt to fix the problems related to referees having grudges against certain teams or players, and won't address refs who believe they are bigger than the game; the NBA would prefer to ignore the issue.  At worst, of course, the NBA is issuing league directives regarding who enforcement should be ramped up against.

Regarding my point about the FBI / NBA, I'm sure that the NBA would love if certain information wasn't released publicly.  I mean, if a ref was potentially fixing playoff games, would you want that information released?  While I don't think the FBI would publicly lie about this -- and in fact, their complaint came very close to charging it outright -- I do think they'd keep quiet about it so as not to embarrass a cooperating witness (i.e., the NBA).  Therefore, until the FBI comes out and says so directly, I'm not willing to believe Donaghy when he says that the FBI never found him complicit in fixing games.