Can we stop all the dirty player threads?

[dlpin]

KG threw an elbow, sure.  I don't think I'd call it particularly "vicious", though, and it certainly wasn't "thrown with a lot more force and conviction than anything Howard has thrown in this series".

I mean, KG isn't the one picking up flagrant fouls or knocking guys out of games with concussions, and there haven't been multiple "accidental" KG elbows to the face and head of players, either.

Exactly.

The celtics are often "dirty" in the sense of setting moving picks, or pushing people around in the post.

That is very different from being dirty in the sense of pushing the other player down every time they collide in the air, or playing with your elbows so high and out that you are constantly elbowing people in the head.

I can't remember a single play this post season where the celtics could have seriously injured someone because of follow through after the play. That has happened every single game with Howard.

[Moranis]

Let us also not forget the vicious elbow KG threw on Q. Richardson in the Miami series.  Where was the outrage on this board then? (I realize he got called for a T and ejected, but come on, that bow was nasty and thrown with a lot more force and conviction then anything Howard has thrown in this series).

KG threw an elbow, sure.  I don't think I'd call it particularly "vicious", though, and it certainly wasn't "thrown with a lot more force and conviction than anything Howard has thrown in this series".

I mean, KG isn't the one picking up flagrant fouls or knocking guys out of games with concussions, and there haven't been multiple "accidental" KG elbows to the face and head of players, either.

I recall KG getting suspended for a strike (punch/slap not an elbow) to the face of Andrew Bogut not that long ago.  I recall a fine for an elbow to the chest of Anthony Peeler when he was on the TWolves.  I've seen plenty of wild elbow swings by KG.  KG is quite frankly a dirty player.  As is Sheed and Perkins.  Hell even ray allen was suspended by the NBA for throwing an elbow to the groin of Varejao last year.  

But that is ok since they are Celtics.  Give me a break.  The Celtics are the dirtiest team in the NBA and absolutely should expect teams to give it back to them.  Were some of Howard's elbows reckless, yes, but at least they were committed during actual basketball plays and actual basketball motions and I've seen nothing that indicates they were intentionally thrown (I'd give you he may be a bit reckless in his motions, but I don't believe he was intentionally throwing elbows, nothing like Dikemebe or Garnett from their early years).

[dlpin]

I recall KG getting suspended for a strike (punch/slap not an elbow) to the face of Andrew Bogut not that long ago.  I recall a fine for an elbow to the chest of Anthony Peeler when he was on the TWolves.  I've seen plenty of wild elbow swings by KG.  KG is quite frankly a dirty player.  As is Sheed and Perkins.  Hell even ray allen was suspended by the NBA for throwing an elbow to the groin of Varejao last year.  

But that is ok since they are Celtics.  Give me a break.  The Celtics are the dirtiest team in the NBA and absolutely should expect teams to give it back to them.  Were some of Howard's elbows reckless, yes, but at least they were committed during actual basketball plays and actual basketball motions and I've seen nothing that indicates they were intentionally thrown (I'd give you he may be a bit reckless in his motions, but I don't believe he was intentionally throwing elbows, nothing like Dikemebe or Garnett from their early years).

BS

Let's compare the videos:
Hit on Bogut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgzywEmqpoo

weak, open handed slap to the face

And you got it backwards: Peeler elbowed KG, not the other way around:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtmGB3FgB1c

And I'll add KG's elbow on Pachulia and Qrich:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_VfOiswih0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmyvOTfXXUo

This in a 15 year career.

Now, let's compare that to Howard in this series alone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i95gSdtt8A&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJqTG5vz8RQ&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddQrJbx0f-0&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL0TA-49g1g&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIEVnjq7DBI&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOAtHHv47mk&feature=player_embedded

And look at Howards arms after he blocks rondo, when he clearly pushes hit to the ground:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_803lThcscg

If it happens too fast, here is a screen cap of howard's hand on the back of rondo's head pushing him down:

[colincb]

TP to dlpin

"Vicious" elbow to QRich? BS.

[guava_wrench]

KG threw an elbow, sure.  I don't think I'd call it particularly "vicious", though, and it certainly wasn't "thrown with a lot more force and conviction than anything Howard has thrown in this series".

I mean, KG isn't the one picking up flagrant fouls or knocking guys out of games with concussions, and there haven't been multiple "accidental" KG elbows to the face and head of players, either.

Exactly.

The celtics are often "dirty" in the sense of setting moving picks, or pushing people around in the post.

That is very different from being dirty in the sense of pushing the other player down every time they collide in the air, or playing with your elbows so high and out that you are constantly elbowing people in the head.

I can't remember a single play this post season where the celtics could have seriously injured someone because of follow through after the play. That has happened every single game with Howard.

Perk threw someone to the floor in an earlier round, I don't remember who. It was pretty much the same thing people here are complaining about regarding some of Howard's fouls. They just didn't mind when it was Perk doing it.

[guava_wrench]

While KG is probably dirtier over his career than Howard, his cheap shots often have less impact because he isn't as strong. Look at the Pierce clip (not the flagrant) where Howard really didn't do much of anything to pierce except smack Pierce's arm on Howard's follow through while going for the block. Howard is so strong and looks so powerful though that it either adds to the force with which Pierce aggravates his stinger, or it at least makes it look that way.

We see Celtics players battering Howard's body on purpose, and I consider it fair game if he starts following through the same way on our players. the problem is that it hurts more when Howard does it than when Sheed or Baby do it.

[dlpin]

Perk threw someone to the floor in an earlier round, I don't remember who. It was pretty much the same thing people here are complaining about regarding some of Howard's fouls. They just didn't mind when it was Perk doing it.

If all you can think of is one example, then the point is already made.

And I would to see anyone come up with an example like that Rondo block where he pushed Rondo's head to the floor.

[Birdbrain]

Shocking C's fans eating their own..

It would be sad if it wasn't so expected.

[Casperian]

No one is injuring anyone on purpose. Just like when Baby smacked the crap out of Shaq's hand. He wasn't trying to hurt him, but he was playing very physical. Playing that physical often has the goal of trying to make players timid due to their being pain averse. We also see this with Sheed and Baby hammering Howard in the first 2 games.

So, the fouls on our big men were because we played physical, but Howard didn´t get called for fouls because it is just physical play?

It is incredible to see all these posts about whoever our opponent is being protected by the league and claims that the league is against us. Go to other boards and you will find homer fans claiming we get the special treatment as the league allows us to maul people like no other team can.

I didn´t say anything about conspiracy theories. I`ve simply stated that, for whatever reason, Howard is allowed to get extremely physical with our players, while we are not allowed to play with nearly the same physicality.

I also agree with dlpin that there is a difference in our dirty plays (moving screens, pushing and shoving) and Howard´s elbows to the head.

[Mr October]

I don't think Howard is intending to injure anyone. He's just swinging his arms on follow throughs and with elbows to get an advantage. Mutombo used to do the same until he injured too many people and the NBA started calling him on it. Mutombo then changed his game and stayed effective. The NBA should do the same to Howard.

This is about avoiding concussions, broken noses, head shots, etc.

Other than that I like all the physical play.

[Mr October]

Let us also not forget the vicious elbow KG threw on Q. Richardson in the Miami series.  Where was the outrage on this board then? (I realize he got called for a T and ejected, but come on, that bow was nasty and thrown with a lot more force and conviction then anything Howard has thrown in this series).

KG threw an elbow, sure.  I don't think I'd call it particularly "vicious", though, and it certainly wasn't "thrown with a lot more force and conviction than anything Howard has thrown in this series".

I mean, KG isn't the one picking up flagrant fouls or knocking guys out of games with concussions, and there haven't been multiple "accidental" KG elbows to the face and head of players, either.

I recall KG getting suspended for a strike (punch/slap not an elbow) to the face of Andrew Bogut not that long ago.  I recall a fine for an elbow to the chest of Anthony Peeler when he was on the TWolves.  I've seen plenty of wild elbow swings by KG.  KG is quite frankly a dirty player.  As is Sheed and Perkins.  Hell even ray allen was suspended by the NBA for throwing an elbow to the groin of Varejao last year.  

But that is ok since they are Celtics.  Give me a break.  The Celtics are the dirtiest team in the NBA and absolutely should expect teams to give it back to them.  Were some of Howard's elbows reckless, yes, but at least they were committed during actual basketball plays and actual basketball motions and I've seen nothing that indicates they were intentionally thrown (I'd give you he may be a bit reckless in his motions, but I don't believe he was intentionally throwing elbows, nothing like Dikemebe or Garnett from their early years).

All I want is for the fouls to be called.... on both sides.

[CoachBo]

Really sad to see this board turn into Real GM.

[ACF]

I don't think Howard is intending to injure anyone. He's just swinging his arms on follow throughs and with elbows to get an advantage. Mutombo used to do the same until he injured too many people and the NBA started calling him on it. Mutombo then changed his game and stayed effective. The NBA should do the same to Howard.

This is about avoiding concussions, broken noses, head shots, etc.

Other than that I like all the physical play.

One of the best posts I've read all day. Have a TP.

[Moranis]

Let us also not forget the vicious elbow KG threw on Q. Richardson in the Miami series.  Where was the outrage on this board then? (I realize he got called for a T and ejected, but come on, that bow was nasty and thrown with a lot more force and conviction then anything Howard has thrown in this series).

KG threw an elbow, sure.  I don't think I'd call it particularly "vicious", though, and it certainly wasn't "thrown with a lot more force and conviction than anything Howard has thrown in this series".

I mean, KG isn't the one picking up flagrant fouls or knocking guys out of games with concussions, and there haven't been multiple "accidental" KG elbows to the face and head of players, either.

I recall KG getting suspended for a strike (punch/slap not an elbow) to the face of Andrew Bogut not that long ago.  I recall a fine for an elbow to the chest of Anthony Peeler when he was on the TWolves.  I've seen plenty of wild elbow swings by KG.  KG is quite frankly a dirty player.  As is Sheed and Perkins.  Hell even ray allen was suspended by the NBA for throwing an elbow to the groin of Varejao last year.  

But that is ok since they are Celtics.  Give me a break.  The Celtics are the dirtiest team in the NBA and absolutely should expect teams to give it back to them.  Were some of Howard's elbows reckless, yes, but at least they were committed during actual basketball plays and actual basketball motions and I've seen nothing that indicates they were intentionally thrown (I'd give you he may be a bit reckless in his motions, but I don't believe he was intentionally throwing elbows, nothing like Dikemebe or Garnett from their early years).

All I want is for the fouls to be called.... on both sides.

first three games of the series the Celtics beat the crap out of Howard (and the celtics got away with a lot of hard fouls on howard).  The physicality wasn't a problem then, but only a problem to this board when Orlando started giving it back. 

[dlpin]

first three games of the series the Celtics beat the crap out of Howard (and the celtics got away with a lot of hard fouls on howard).  The physicality wasn't a problem then, but only a problem to this board when Orlando started giving it back.  

For the third time, there is a difference between a hard playoff foul and pushing/elbowing someone after the call/block/rebound.