doc's strategy exposed?

[Bossco]

doc hasn't played some bench players for quite some time. For varying reasons Sheldon, Quise, Nate, Scal haven't seen much action. But when foul trouble or injuries happen doc is forced to use them. Is it fair to expect good results from players who haven't seen the floor for so long?

doc has placed so little faith in these guys that he even plays the starters way past the point that they should in blow-out games. Example - game 3. Although he took Garnett out with 3:02 left in the 3rd and never returned he played Ray until the 6:59 mark (up 29 points), Paul until 4:34 left (up 31 points), Perk and Rondo with 4:45 left (up 29 points).

This is the way doc has always been. He simply doesn't trust all his players. The players must have a hard time staying ready. If Rondo gets hurt or has foul trouble or if some bigs go down these players are going to be needed. How can we truly expect to be able to rely on them if they been put in moth balls for so long?

P.S. Why didn't doc call a time out with 16 seconds to go in regulation in game 4? Isn't that a no brainer? Especially for a coach who is known for being one of the best play designers out of a time out in the NBA?

[kozlodoev]

P.S. Why didn't doc call a time out with 16 seconds to go in regulation in game 4? Isn't that a no brainer? Especially for a coach who is known for being one of the best play designers out of a time out in the NBA?

There was a play in place for this possession. Pierce botched the play.

[CoachBo]

Pierce did NOT botch the play.

The play was botched by the three players who ignored the Four Down call and ran to him, allowing the Magic to surround. The call was a spread floor iso, and it was doomed by the failure of the others on the floor to spread it.

[kozlodoev]

Pierce did NOT botch the play.

The play was botched by the three players who ignored the Four Down call and ran to him, allowing the Magic to surround. The call was a spread floor iso, and it was doomed by the failure of the others on the floor to spread it.

Sure he did.

Pierce missed a wide open Rondo on the wing. Plays have first, second, and third option. The fact that the play starts with a Pierce isolation does not mean he's the one who has to take the shot.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Playing an 11 man roster in these playoffs would have been a disaster.  One of Doc's biggest knocks over the years is that he is not good with rotations.  Until they consolidated the roster down to the big 3, etc., he was not considered a particularly good coach.   However, with the shortened roster, the team has succeeded in large part b/c we have a big dropoff in talent/performance after the the top 6 or 7, and we are only playing 8.  Even JVG highlighted this and says it is best for the team.

I don't wan't Marquis or Sheldon getting minutes because it'd be taking away from a better player.  Doc has told them that they will be needed these playoffs, to be ready, and that they will play an important role.  At no point has he destroyed their confidence.  Just look at Nate, the guy is excited and the first to wave a towel.

On the topic of Pierce's play, he blew it, but you're right that defenders came over.  This has been one of my only knocks on Davis these playoffs in that he brings his defender too close to other players with the ball, etc.  He's not necessarily alone in doing that, but he's probably the worst.  

[wdleehi]

A shorten playoff rotation is usually the way to go.



It is the bench players not playing job to be prepared even if they haven't been playing much.

[kozlodoev]

[quote author=Spilling Green Dye
On the topic of Pierce's play, he blew it, but you're right that defenders came over.  This has been one of my only knocks on Davis these playoffs in that he brings his defender too close to other players with the ball, etc.  He's not necessarily alone in doing that, but he's probably the worst. [/quote]
You have to realize that no matter what play you call, you can't choose how the defense is going to play you. It was immediately obvious as soon as Pierce got the ball that Nelson will be zoning on top of the key instead of playing Rondo.

Instead of recognizing that the circumstances require him to pass to Rondo and live with the outcome of the wide open 10-foot shoot he was going to take, Pierce stubbornly refused to pass the ball, and paid for it.

Obviously, the play was in jeopardy from the moment when Rondo lost the dribble and passed off to Pierce while was in an extremely bad position, but the situation was salvageable if Pierce had recognized what the defense was giving to him.

[Spilling Green Dye]

[quote author=Spilling Green Dye
On the topic of Pierce's play, he blew it, but you're right that defenders came over.  This has been one of my only knocks on Davis these playoffs in that he brings his defender too close to other players with the ball, etc.  He's not necessarily alone in doing that, but he's probably the worst.

You have to realize that no matter what play you call, you can't choose how the defense is going to play you. It was immediately obvious as soon as Pierce got the ball that Nelson will be zoning on top of the key instead of playing Rondo.

Instead of recognizing that the circumstances require him to pass to Rondo and live with the outcome of the wide open 10-foot shoot he was going to take, Pierce stubbornly refused to pass the ball, and paid for it.

Obviously, the play was in jeopardy from the moment when Rondo lost the dribble and passed off to Pierce while was in an extremely bad position, but the situation was salvageable if Pierce had recognized what the defense was giving to him.
[/quote]

Yes, which is why I said (and you quoted) "On the topic of Pierce's play, he blew it."  I don't know what you're arguing with.

[nickagneta]

doc hasn't played some bench players for quite some time. For varying reasons Sheldon, Quise, Nate, Scal haven't seen much action. But when foul trouble or injuries happen doc is forced to use them. Is it fair to expect good results from players who haven't seen the floor for so long?

doc has placed so little faith in these guys that he even plays the starters way past the point that they should in blow-out games. Example - game 3. Although he took Garnett out with 3:02 left in the 3rd and never returned he played Ray until the 6:59 mark (up 29 points), Paul until 4:34 left (up 31 points), Perk and Rondo with 4:45 left (up 29 points).

This is the way doc has always been. He simply doesn't trust all his players. The players must have a hard time staying ready. If Rondo gets hurt or has foul trouble or if some bigs go down these players are going to be needed. How can we truly expect to be able to rely on them if they been put in moth balls for so long?

P.S. Why didn't doc call a time out with 16 seconds to go in regulation in game 4? Isn't that a no brainer? Especially for a coach who is known for being one of the best play designers out of a time out in the NBA?

1.) Bench players get paid millions of dollars a year to be ready to play at peak performance when called upon now matter when they are called upon. That is their career. So yes, it is fair for the coach and fans to expect them to perform well when called upon no matter the length of time between playing stints. Playoffs mean short rotations and it means players out of the rotation must do everything they can to hone their skill and be ready to perform in an instant's notice if called upon.

2.) The reason Doc didn't call a timeout in that last 16 seconds is that Stan Van Gundy had his "offensive" package of players in the game and Doc felt better with the idea of having Pierce run iso versus Nelson/Redick/Carter/Bass/Gortat than he would have against Nelson/Barnes/Pietrus/Lewis/Howard who all would have been substituted into the game had Doc called time out.

[PosImpos]

P.S. Why didn't doc call a time out with 16 seconds to go in regulation in game 4? Isn't that a no brainer? Especially for a coach who is known for being one of the best play designers out of a time out in the NBA?

There was a play in place for this possession. Pierce botched the play.

Still not an excuse.  You have to give your players time to rest and collect themselves, get mentally focused to run that play.  Yes, you have to deal with the challenge of inbounding the ball and you give the other team the opportunity to rest up as well, but in my mind it's totally worth it.

You take the timeout when you have it...bottom line, end of story, no matter the circumstances.

[droopdog7]

P.S. Why didn't doc call a time out with 16 seconds to go in regulation in game 4? Isn't that a no brainer? Especially for a coach who is known for being one of the best play designers out of a time out in the NBA?

There was a play in place for this possession. Pierce botched the play.

Still not an excuse.  You have to give your players time to rest and collect themselves, get mentally focused to run that play.  Yes, you have to deal with the challenge of inbounding the ball and you give the other team the opportunity to rest up as well, but in my mind it's totally worth it.

You take the timeout when you have it...bottom line, end of story, no matter the circumstances.

Thought it was the right call.  In this case, not only would the defense had an opportunity to set up their defense, they also would have been able to bring in their best defenders, who were not in the game. Unfortunately it did not work out.  And there is not guarantee that calling a time out would have made things different. 

This is hindsight at its best really.