Author Topic: 3 Dumb Plays  (Read 9078 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2010, 08:22:46 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9931
  • Tommy Points: 777
There were 3 very bad choices made in the last 3 minutes of the game that almost cost us that one.

1 and 2- Rondo's poor decision to go to the basket early in the shot clock and come away without even a reasonable shot attempt. He's got to be smarter than that. Up 13 you can't make those plays.

3- Ray choosing to drive it all the way in with under 2 min remaining. That resulted in the jump ball from Rondo which we lost and they go down and score again.

Great 3 quarters of basketball by the Celtics, but we slipped back into our bad habit of playing poorly in the 4th. You might get away with that up 20 during the 3rd, but that won't likely happen again. Come on guys. Play smart basketball all the way through and you can keep in their heads. Let's take the second one!
I agree with your take on 1 when we are playing against Howard. You can't get shots like that against his help defense.

The Ray play was not as questionable. Ray can take Nelson to the rim all day when Nelson is backpedaling. He just crossed himself up with the dribble. There is nothing wrong with pushing the ball when you shoot FTs like Ray, but protect the ball and only shoot if the shot is good. It is possible that if Ray doesn't lose the ball, he still dribbles out if he can't get to the rim.

Scoring 2 pts in ~4 secs > scoring 0 pts in 20 secs at that point in the game. Even more significantly, our fear of pushing the ball at the end of games leads to scoring droughts.

Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2010, 08:35:20 PM »

Online snively

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6008
  • Tommy Points: 503
I liked Rondo's aggression on offense late.  Didn't work out, but it's a higher % play than Pierce's fadeaways as the shot clock runs out.

Same with Ray. 
2025 Draft: Chicago Bulls

PG: Chauncey Billups/Deron Williams
SG: Kobe Bryant/Eric Gordon
SF: Jimmy Butler/Danny Granger/Danilo Gallinari
PF: Al Horford/Zion Williamson
C: Yao Ming/Pau Gasol/Tyson Chandler

Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2010, 08:50:32 PM »

Offline Brendan

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2990
  • Tommy Points: 72
The Celtics offense goes down the drain in the 4th quarter all the time. Primarily due to Pierce, Allen, and KG (Hollinger had an article on this.) I think Rondo was pressing a bit too much and trying to figure out how to attack and compensate for Dwight.

The team really didn't play great in the first two quarters. They could have made this a laugher - I'm hoping the close ending is a good "teachable moment" and the C's keep their boots on the Magic necks next time.


I disagree. The main problem in the 4th has been Rondo's decision making, poor pace setting, and play calling.

He's aggressive throughout the whole game, and then stops. He's the PG, the offense is in his hands since the playoffs in 08 (which was a mistake then).
I think it will be hard to prove, but the efficiency of those three guys goes down the drain:

Quote
Digging a little deeper, the problem appears to be almost entirely on one end: offense. Boston gave up about one point more in second halves than in first halves, which is completely normal -- second halves tend to have slightly more scoring because of late-game fouling situations.

What isn't normal is for an offense to score 51.4 points before the halftime buzzer and only 47.5 after, which is what Boston did. The quarter-by-quarter breakdowns are equally instructive: Basically, the longer the game goes, the worse the Celtics' offense gets.


And then:
Quote
Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen didn't bear a huge minutes burden this season -- they played 30, 34 and 35 per game, respectively. Nonetheless, their performances degraded the longer the game went on. While Rajon Rondo's stats had little quarter-to-quarter variance, his three star teammates fell off a cliff late:

• Garnett shot 54.2 percent in the first three quarters of games this season, with virtually no variation by quarter. In the fourth? He shot 43.7 percent.

• Pierce shot 49.8 percent in first halves this year, but declined to 45.7 percent in the third and 42.9 percent in the fourth. He also plummeted to 74.2 percent from the stripe in fourth quarters.

• Allen's splits weren't quite as extreme, but he shot 34.1 percent on 3s in the second half compared to 38.9 percent in first halves.

That's across 59 games this season where the C's lead by 12 or less after 3 quarters (i.e. not scrub time.) We're going to blame this all on Rondo? Anyways even if it is Rondo, the other three guys have to step up and stop things in the fourth.

In terms of tonight - at half time I felt like we could have been up 25 with all the little mistakes, no biggy. They looked great and in the postseason I'm glad to get the win.

Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2010, 09:04:33 PM »

Offline FallGuy

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1941
  • Tommy Points: 70
The Celtics offense goes down the drain in the 4th quarter all the time. Primarily due to Pierce, Allen, and KG (Hollinger had an article on this.) I think Rondo was pressing a bit too much and trying to figure out how to attack and compensate for Dwight.

The team really didn't play great in the first two quarters. They could have made this a laugher - I'm hoping the close ending is a good "teachable moment" and the C's keep their boots on the Magic necks next time.

We actually played great early on. The way Ray was getting to the rim was incredible. He was also doing this against a good defensive team.

I'm not sure we should expect much better against Orlando than we had early on during games when the refs are reluctant to blow the whistle on borderline calls. This is to our advantage though, since we are the masters of mauling defense.

Re: Ray's aggression. Pretty sure he saw Barnes was hobbled and wanted to burn him early and often.

Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2010, 09:07:16 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19003
  • Tommy Points: 1833
The Celtics offense goes down the drain in the 4th quarter all the time. Primarily due to Pierce, Allen, and KG (Hollinger had an article on this.) I think Rondo was pressing a bit too much and trying to figure out how to attack and compensate for Dwight.

The team really didn't play great in the first two quarters. They could have made this a laugher - I'm hoping the close ending is a good "teachable moment" and the C's keep their boots on the Magic necks next time.


I disagree. The main problem in the 4th has been Rondo's decision making, poor pace setting, and play calling.

He's aggressive throughout the whole game, and then stops. He's the PG, the offense is in his hands since the playoffs in 08 (which was a mistake then).
I think it will be hard to prove, but the efficiency of those three guys goes down the drain:

Quote
Digging a little deeper, the problem appears to be almost entirely on one end: offense. Boston gave up about one point more in second halves than in first halves, which is completely normal -- second halves tend to have slightly more scoring because of late-game fouling situations.

What isn't normal is for an offense to score 51.4 points before the halftime buzzer and only 47.5 after, which is what Boston did. The quarter-by-quarter breakdowns are equally instructive: Basically, the longer the game goes, the worse the Celtics' offense gets.


And then:
Quote
Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen didn't bear a huge minutes burden this season -- they played 30, 34 and 35 per game, respectively. Nonetheless, their performances degraded the longer the game went on. While Rajon Rondo's stats had little quarter-to-quarter variance, his three star teammates fell off a cliff late:

• Garnett shot 54.2 percent in the first three quarters of games this season, with virtually no variation by quarter. In the fourth? He shot 43.7 percent.

• Pierce shot 49.8 percent in first halves this year, but declined to 45.7 percent in the third and 42.9 percent in the fourth. He also plummeted to 74.2 percent from the stripe in fourth quarters.

• Allen's splits weren't quite as extreme, but he shot 34.1 percent on 3s in the second half compared to 38.9 percent in first halves.

That's across 59 games this season where the C's lead by 12 or less after 3 quarters (i.e. not scrub time.) We're going to blame this all on Rondo? Anyways even if it is Rondo, the other three guys have to step up and stop things in the fourth.

In terms of tonight - at half time I felt like we could have been up 25 with all the little mistakes, no biggy. They looked great and in the postseason I'm glad to get the win.


I'm not saying it's ALL or Rondo, and the season doesn't mean much to me. I'm talking mainly about the last 3 postseasons more than anything.

Pace is such a big thing for this team, that when it's not there EVERYONE suffers, and that includes our big 3. Also, for all of those that complain about Pierce in the 4th, well I say that it's Rondo's job to say NO to him when he's not on. Rondo runs the offense he pretty much has the say so of through whom they'll play through, as such the play calling isn't there, they stop looking for KG at the post, etc.

The point of the matter is that Rondo since the playoffs in 2008 has been given a huge responsibility over our offense, and just as he gets a ton of the credit when it's going good, he should get the brunt of the blame when it's not going.

I'll agree that there are times when our guys simply aren't hitting shots, but to me that's secondary to the offense actually doing what it should whether they make a basket or not, and that's mostly on Rondo.

So while I also get angry at Pierce when he's not playing well, and still dominating the ball in the 4th, I get angrier at Rondo for simply not doing his job and just say "no" to Pierce and go in another direction.

Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2010, 09:37:41 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7620
  • Tommy Points: 280
Rondo will watch tape and come out like FIRE in game 2.

Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2010, 10:35:49 PM »

Offline jv2764

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 394
  • Tommy Points: 27
Sorry guys, but I still disagree about Ray's play. At that point they were about a minute and a half and we were still up about 10. Ray has a history of turning over the ball against smaller guys as he goes to the basket. Nelson was squarely in front of him and a very pesky defender. He should have pulled the ball out and reset. That would have taken 2-3 of those possessions by the Magic at the end away from them as it would have run off about 18-20 more seconds. They were instantly fouling everyone at the very end and that is about what we were having come off the clock. It is one thing if he is wide open going to the rim. Another when he is being defended. That being said, I thought Ray played a very good game overall. Rondo had a rough one. I'd rather get that out of his system with a win though!
You go to the hoop.  Don't play the clock or thr scoreboard.  Ray did the right thing.  You go for the dagger there.  That was their problem in the last five minutes they went into the basketball verson of the PREVENT in football.  Run your stuff and youre fine.

Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2010, 02:04:41 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19003
  • Tommy Points: 1833
One play that really got to me was in the 4th, Rondo falls to the floor, and instead of calling a time out to preserve the possession, he throws the ball away.

Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2010, 02:54:59 PM »

Offline j804

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9348
  • Tommy Points: 3072
  • BLOOD SWEAT & TEARS
One play that really got to me was in the 4th, Rondo falls to the floor, and instead of calling a time out to preserve the possession, he throws the ball away.

he tried to flop and get the call, but it backfired
"7ft PG. Rondo leaves and GUESS WHAT? We got a BIGGER point guard!"-Tommy on Olynyk


Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2010, 03:10:45 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
I think you missed the dumbest play of all. With 6 or 7 minutes left Rondo inexplicably doubled Dwight Howard and Dwight quickly found Jason Williams for a three, and that's what started that whole fourth quarter near collapse. Just no reason for that, your plan for single coverage was working all game.

  Didn't Rondo double DH earlier and help force a travel?

Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2010, 03:14:15 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Rondo has a tendency to play the clock, rather than the scoreboard, with a lead.

With that said, this was not his best game from an attacking standpoint - at all.

  It's not just Rondo, it's the whole team. The later they get in these games, the more they put the ball in Paul's hand, which generally means pounding the ball until there's 6 or so seconds on the clock and then trying to make something happen.

Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2010, 03:18:00 PM »

Offline LB3533

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4088
  • Tommy Points: 315
The thing about the 4th quarter against ORL in Game 1....we did not allow the right players to make plays.

Rondo was not having an offensive game over the first 3 quarters so the ball should have been in either Paul or Ray's hands to run pick and rolls with KG or Sheed.

Or the ball could have gone down to KG in the post.

Pierce didn't attempt a shot in the 4th yet he assisted on 2 of our 5 made baskets of the 4th quarter (1 was to Sheed for 3 and 2nd was to Baby for the potential "and-1").

Ray took 4 shots and made 2, he got one rejected by Howard and one was an airball 3 point attempt.


The thing to recognize about every 4 quarter is opposing defensive usually tightens up in the 4th so we can not expect it to be as easy like it was through quarters 1-3.


Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2010, 03:19:11 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
One play that really got to me was in the 4th, Rondo falls to the floor, and instead of calling a time out to preserve the possession, he throws the ball away.

  There's 1-2 plays like this every game. Someone (other than Rondo) gets caught in a double team with nowhere to go (frequently after a defensive rebound) and flails around until they lose the ball. We rarely of ever call timeout in that situation. Paul does it, KG does it, Perk and Baby do it.

Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2010, 03:20:30 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2939
  • Tommy Points: 235
  • 36 charges and counting..
There were 3 very bad choices made in the last 3 minutes of the game that almost cost us that one.

1 and 2- Rondo's poor decision to go to the basket early in the shot clock and come away without even a reasonable shot attempt. He's got to be smarter than that. Up 13 you can't make those plays.

3- Ray choosing to drive it all the way in with under 2 min remaining. That resulted in the jump ball from Rondo which we lost and they go down and score again.

Great 3 quarters of basketball by the Celtics, but we slipped back into our bad habit of playing poorly in the 4th. You might get away with that up 20 during the 3rd, but that won't likely happen again. Come on guys. Play smart basketball all the way through and you can keep in their heads. Let's take the second one!

That's what you took from this game... classic.

I agree let's get game 2.
Little Fockers 1.5/10
Gulliver's Travels 1/10
Grown Ups -20/10
Tron Legacy 6.5/10

Re: 3 Dumb Plays
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2010, 04:02:22 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19003
  • Tommy Points: 1833
One play that really got to me was in the 4th, Rondo falls to the floor, and instead of calling a time out to preserve the possession, he throws the ball away.

  There's 1-2 plays like this every game. Someone (other than Rondo) gets caught in a double team with nowhere to go (frequently after a defensive rebound) and flails around until they lose the ball. We rarely of ever call timeout in that situation. Paul does it, KG does it, Perk and Baby do it.

So what if they do it? They're just as wrong then. And if it's a double team, then some times you can get away from it. But Rondo was on the floor, there was nothing he could do, and he just threw the ball away... tried to get it to Paul who was in the corner, but there was no chance of getting him the ball.

Similar situation Paul at the end, he got trapped in a double team. He had nowhere to go, so either someone comes to help him so that he could get the ball to him (for some reason something we do quite badly) or call a time out... we ended up calling a time out.

When you got the lead in the 4th, possessions are vastly more valuable than a timeout. At worst, he should have held on to the ball and force a jump ball.