Laker fans rooting for Celtics, want a rematch...

[PosImpos]

Looks like there will be a finals rematch this year...the only question is which year will it be a rematch of - last year or the year before?

Wanted to believe in the Suns, would've been really cool for Steve Nash to get to the Finals once, but the Suns just aren't built to beat a team like the Lakers in the playoffs.

[LarBrd33]

From a Laker fan's perspective, let me explain why I'd like us to play the Celtics.

It isn't at all about what would be easier. I believe that Boston has a significantly better chance of beating the Lakers in a 7 game series than Orlando does. The Celtics have a degree of length and physicality that Orlando can't match, aside from Howard, of course. That's the only way to beat the Lakers, IMO.

But of course we'd like revenge from our end. It doesn't make it a certainty that it would happen, but we'd [dang] sure like a crack at it. And on a more practical note, we'd have Home Court Advantage whereas we wouldn't against ORL.

You guys seem pretty confident, but I think that there are a couple of factors that make a potential rematch different than the '08 Finals.

First and foremost, the Lakers will have gone from having Luke Walton & Vladimir Radmanovic guarding Pierce to having Artest doing so. Defensively, that's just about the biggest swing imaginable. Pierce was able to get to his spots with incredible ease against two players that have no business being contributors on a championship team. That isn't the case anymore.

Secondly, Rondo is a much more integral part of your offense than he was in '08. His minutes decreased significantly in Games 3-5 in that series because you guys were much more effective with House spreading the floor. That option isn't available anymore. Rondo's gotten quite a bit better, but Kobe tends to do well when guarding PGs that aren't all that great from outside. (ala Westbrook in the first round) Ray Allen running around screens concerns me though. We have no one that's good at that, and he killed us in '08.

I also think that Bynum's presence, albeit hobbled, helps against your team more than most. Your bigs pushed our bigs around in '08, and that's a lot more difficult to do with Bynum as he has a wide base and utilizes his length. I also don't think that KG is as physically dominant as he was in '08. I've always felt that he was the true MVP of that series, not Pierce. He's still a brilliant defender, but I don't see him overwhelming people with his physical gifts anymore.

There are also some intangibles to consider, as this Laker squad is battle/playoff tested in a way that the '08 team wasn't. Remember, that season started with Kobe wanting to play on Pluto and ended in the Finals. On the other hand, the Celtics were the prohibitive favorite once the KG & Allen deals went down. That Laker squad wilted in '08...but a lot has happened since then.

I've been watching basketball for a long time, and if both teams are playing at their peaks (as they are now), this may very well be the best Finals matchup since '87.

If the champs can get rid of the pesky Magic, I figure they will stomp the Lakers again.  You're right about Rondo being a lot better.   Dunno about how well Kobe defended Westbrook... Westbrook was fantastic against the Lakers in round 1... he was Oklahoma's best player.  And the Thunder were able to cause havoc despite the fact that they essentially don't have a big man on their entire squad.

Lakers should want to face the champs, because the champs have not lost when healthy.  Until the Magic or Lakers prove they can beat a healthy Celtic squad, the belt still belongs to KG.  The 2009 title wasn't legitimate.  The road to the 2010 title goes through Kevin Garnett and his Boston Celtics.

[LakerPete]

Thank you for the welcome, ACF. I understand that I'm in the Lion's Den and I'll probably get quite a bit of incoming fire from Celtic fans. That's fine. I'm not here to troll or to get into that sort of back & forth.
There are plenty of Laker fans who don't think that Boston's title was legitimate because both Bynum & Ariza (starters on the championship team the following year) were hurt, just as you don't feel the '09 title was legit because of KG. Both arguments are weak, IMO. I'm sure you guys are banged up, just as the Lakers are. When teams lose, people always seem to blame injuries or the refs. The Celtics were the '08 champs, and the Lakers accomplished that in '09. No excuses, end of story.

Yes, Westbrook was OKC's best player in the 1st Round...through the first 4 games. Kobe didn't start guarding him until Game 5, and Westbrook's FG% went from the mid-50's to the mid-30's.

As for stomping the Lakers, I'd be very, very surprised. This is a considerably different Laker squad than '08.

[Bahku]

Thank you for the welcome, ACF. I understand that I'm in the Lion's Den and I'll probably get quite a bit of incoming fire from Celtic fans. That's fine. I'm not here to troll or to get into that sort of back & forth.
There are plenty of Laker fans who don't think that Boston's title was legitimate because both Bynum & Ariza (starters on the championship team the following year) were hurt, just as you don't feel the '09 title was legit because of KG. Both arguments are weak, IMO. I'm sure you guys are banged up, just as the Lakers are. When teams lose, people always seem to blame injuries or the refs. The Celtics were the '08 champs, and the Lakers accomplished that in '09. No excuses, end of story.

Yes, Westbrook was OKC's best player in the 1st Round...through the first 4 games. Kobe didn't start guarding him until Game 5, and Westbrook's FG% went from the mid-50's to the mid-30's.

As for stomping the Lakers, I'd be very, very surprised. This is a considerably different Laker squad than '08.

Welcome from me as well, LP ... and your first Tommy Point! (It's a little way we congratulate or reward each other here). I think you'll find that the majority of people here will treat you with respect and decency, as long as it's mutual.

One of my favorite people here was originally a T-Wolves fan and "came over" when KG defected, so-to-speak. Anyway ... I think it's great to get a viewpoint from the "enemy camp" and we're all in love with the same game when it gets right down to it, we just dress it up in different colors.

I'll just end it by saying that you're right, this is a different Lakers team ... but this is also a different Celtics team than two years ago, and one that many people are taking for granted, much to their surprise and chagrin, (and we still know how to play a little defense).

[GreenFaith1819]

Thank you for the welcome, ACF. I understand that I'm in the Lion's Den and I'll probably get quite a bit of incoming fire from Celtic fans. That's fine. I'm not here to troll or to get into that sort of back & forth.
There are plenty of Laker fans who don't think that Boston's title was legitimate because both Bynum & Ariza (starters on the championship team the following year) were hurt, just as you don't feel the '09 title was legit because of KG. Both arguments are weak, IMO. I'm sure you guys are banged up, just as the Lakers are. When teams lose, people always seem to blame injuries or the refs. The Celtics were the '08 champs, and the Lakers accomplished that in '09. No excuses, end of story.

Yes, Westbrook was OKC's best player in the 1st Round...through the first 4 games. Kobe didn't start guarding him until Game 5, and Westbrook's FG% went from the mid-50's to the mid-30's.

As for stomping the Lakers, I'd be very, very surprised. This is a considerably different Laker squad than '08.

Welcome Lakerpete. Don't be a stranger around here. Good to see a Laker fan in the forums.

You are right - the Lakers are a different team from 08. I was just visiting Silver Screen and Roll a few days ago, and I was discussing the same thing with some fans over there.

We still have our hands Full with ORL..they are a tough team, and it will be a tough series, I think.

We are a different team, too - since the regular season. Do you know that one Laker Fan gave us Only One Win VS ORL?

Wow.

Well, we got the one already, and I see that LA beat PHX last night. Here's to hoping our Paths Cross here in a few weeks.

But we both must take care of business with our respective series.

[connerhenry43]

Thank you for the welcome, ACF. I understand that I'm in the Lion's Den and I'll probably get quite a bit of incoming fire from Celtic fans. That's fine. I'm not here to troll or to get into that sort of back & forth.
There are plenty of Laker fans who don't think that Boston's title was legitimate because both Bynum & Ariza (starters on the championship team the following year) were hurt, just as you don't feel the '09 title was legit because of KG. Both arguments are weak, IMO. I'm sure you guys are banged up, just as the Lakers are. When teams lose, people always seem to blame injuries or the refs. The Celtics were the '08 champs, and the Lakers accomplished that in '09. No excuses, end of story.

Yes, Westbrook was OKC's best player in the 1st Round...through the first 4 games. Kobe didn't start guarding him until Game 5, and Westbrook's FG% went from the mid-50's to the mid-30's.

As for stomping the Lakers, I'd be very, very surprised. This is a considerably different Laker squad than '08.

when i heard celtic fans chanting "new york knicks", i said to myself the same thing i will say to laker fans:

be careful what you wish for.

[CoachBo]

While Kobe can certainly defend, he's not healthy. And quite frankly, there aren't many other Lakers who scare me from the defensive end.

Should we both prevail - which is anything but a certainty at this point - the Lakers will be hurt by the fact they're playing a poor defensive club in this series, and haven't been tested by anything remotely close to the defense the Celtics will throw at them.

[GreenFaith1819]

While Kobe can certainly defend, he's not healthy. And quite frankly, there aren't many other Lakers who scare me from the defensive end.

Should we both prevail - which is anything but a certainty at this point - the Lakers will be hurt by the fact they're playing a poor defensive club in this series, and haven't been tested by anything remotely close to the defense the Celtics will throw at them.

Agreed.

No Disrespect to ORL, because we still have to beat them..but so far this post-season is very similar to 07-08..LA didn't have much challenge back then, and we had to beat both Detroit and CLE to make it to the Finals..I think a much tougher road for Boston then and even now.

[divo0oneh]

If were gonna beat the Lakers Paul Pierce is gonna have to school Artest and take it to him. Dont let Artest bring it to you but take it to him show him why you're The Truth!

But i imagine we'll miss Eddie House's 3pt shooting unless Doc decides to play Nate!

[LakerPete]

Thanks again for the welcome, guys.

Two of you have mentioned that this is a different Celtic team. Here are my observations from an outside perspective, and feel free to tell me how accurate I am. I'm curious to hear how you feel this is a different Celtic squad as well.

Rajon Rondo is now your best player

I love, love, love Rondo's game. Have since he was at Kentucky, and was hoping he'd fall to the Lakers. I see him now as being the person that really runs the show, and he's gotten much better at contending with a "sag 5 feet off of him" defense. He's one of the most clever shot-makers in the lane in the game, and obviously his freakish length disrupts passing lanes on the other end of the court. In '08 I thought KG was "the guy" on that team. These day's it's Rondo.

You have improved interior defense in some ways

I've always believed that this is the most common thread amongst title teams, and now that Sheed decided to care, you have 3 elite positional defenders in KG, Sheed, & Perkins. That's manifesting itself against Orlando, because you really don't have to give Howard any extra attention. (side note: Howard's getting good looks, he just isn't skilled enough to convert)

On the other hand, I don't think that you have the shot blocking/shot changing presence that you did in '08, due to KG's decreased athleticism. Perkins is solid in this respect, but after that there isn't much. Even more importantly, Garnett dominated the boards in '08, leading the playoffs in rebounding. He's still a fantastic player, but he isn't that guy anymore. I think he's benefited from favorable matchups where he can utilize his length against Jamison & Lewis.   

But to summarize, I see great positional defenders and average shot-blocking.

The emergence of Tony Allen

Allen gives you a level of athleticism on the perimeter that I think is a really underrated asset. I see him as being similar to what Ariza brought to the table for the Lakers last year in his ability to fill the lane in transition and dive to the hoop for an often spectacular play. But obviously his greatest value is his ability to defend on the perimeter. I'm curious to see him defend Kobe in a 7 game series. Posey did a great job in '08, and I expect Allen to do the same. That being said, I think that Kobe will be able to get some hoops by outsmarting Allen in a way that he couldn't against Posey. We shall (hopefully) see.

All in all, I don't see THAT much that's different about this Celtic squad. There are changes, but nothing drastic. On the Laker end, rotational minutes have gone from...

2008 = Luke Walton, Vladimir Radmanovic, Sasha Vujacic, & Ronny Turiaf

to

2010 = Ron Artest, Andrew Bynum, & Shannon Brown

That's a significant upgrade. None of those 4 guys in '08 have any business being in a championship caliber rotation.

[Redz]

I'd rather play the Lakers, if we're so fortunate to get there.

[guava_wrench]

Thanks again for the welcome, guys.

Two of you have mentioned that this is a different Celtic team. Here are my observations from an outside perspective, and feel free to tell me how accurate I am. I'm curious to hear how you feel this is a different Celtic squad as well.

Rajon Rondo is now your best player

I love, love, love Rondo's game. Have since he was at Kentucky, and was hoping he'd fall to the Lakers. I see him now as being the person that really runs the show, and he's gotten much better at contending with a "sag 5 feet off of him" defense. He's one of the most clever shot-makers in the lane in the game, and obviously his freakish length disrupts passing lanes on the other end of the court. In '08 I thought KG was "the guy" on that team. These day's it's Rondo.

You have improved interior defense in some ways

I've always believed that this is the most common thread amongst title teams, and now that Sheed decided to care, you have 3 elite positional defenders in KG, Sheed, & Perkins. That's manifesting itself against Orlando, because you really don't have to give Howard any extra attention. (side note: Howard's getting good looks, he just isn't skilled enough to convert)

On the other hand, I don't think that you have the shot blocking/shot changing presence that you did in '08, due to KG's decreased athleticism. Perkins is solid in this respect, but after that there isn't much. Even more importantly, Garnett dominated the boards in '08, leading the playoffs in rebounding. He's still a fantastic player, but he isn't that guy anymore. I think he's benefited from favorable matchups where he can utilize his length against Jamison & Lewis.   

But to summarize, I see great positional defenders and average shot-blocking.

The emergence of Tony Allen

Allen gives you a level of athleticism on the perimeter that I think is a really underrated asset. I see him as being similar to what Ariza brought to the table for the Lakers last year in his ability to fill the lane in transition and dive to the hoop for an often spectacular play. But obviously his greatest value is his ability to defend on the perimeter. I'm curious to see him defend Kobe in a 7 game series. Posey did a great job in '08, and I expect Allen to do the same. That being said, I think that Kobe will be able to get some hoops by outsmarting Allen in a way that he couldn't against Posey. We shall (hopefully) see.

All in all, I don't see THAT much that's different about this Celtic squad. There are changes, but nothing drastic. On the Laker end, rotational minutes have gone from...

2008 = Luke Walton, Vladimir Radmanovic, Sasha Vujacic, & Ronny Turiaf

to

2010 = Ron Artest, Andrew Bynum, & Shannon Brown

That's a significant upgrade. None of those 4 guys in '08 have any business being in a championship caliber rotation.

Don't forget Trevor Ariza. He is the one guy that will be missed for the Lakers. He was dangerous when open from 3 in ways that Artest is not. I also remember Ariza playing the passing lanes really well, though Artest is a better defender against Pierce.

I tend to feel that the Lakers are better now, though Bynum and Kobe need to be healthy.

[LakerPete]

Don't forget Trevor Ariza. He is the one guy that will be missed for the Lakers. He was dangerous when open from 3 in ways that Artest is not. I also remember Ariza playing the passing lanes really well, though Artest is a better defender against Pierce.

I tend to feel that the Lakers are better now, though Bynum and Kobe need to be healthy.

The Lakers do miss Ariza, but I believe it's in a different way than you're stating. Ariza was a 32% 3 point shooter who got hot at the right time, and teams rightfully left him open consistently. He also wasn't a factor in '08 as he was getting his first (and minimal) minutes while coming off of a broken foot. Artest is inconsistent from outside, but has been shooting the ball much better as of late. He also passes within the triangle a lot better than Ariza did.

What we miss from Ariza is his athleticism. He was someone who could get out on the break and finish in ways that Artest can't dream of, and make "Tony Allen" type of plays where his athleticism is the difference. Easy buckets have been much harder to come by this year.

That's what makes a Boston vs. Lakers Finals so intriguing to me. Unlike '08, both teams want to play the same style. The '08 Laker team wanted to get out in transition, and when the Celtics were able to get back time and time again, the Laker's effectiveness diminished and Boston had a clear advantage. This time, both teams want to play in the half court on both ends. The Lakers are much more of a "grimey" team than they were in '08. We can now win games in the high-80's/low-90's.

[j804]

I'd love to see Kobe try and do the things he does to Grant Hill against Tony Allen, or Pau GaSOFT try and get easy buckets against KG or Rasheed.... Bring it on!

[BballTim]

Thanks again for the welcome, guys.

Two of you have mentioned that this is a different Celtic team. Here are my observations from an outside perspective, and feel free to tell me how accurate I am. I'm curious to hear how you feel this is a different Celtic squad as well.

Rajon Rondo is now your best player

I love, love, love Rondo's game. Have since he was at Kentucky, and was hoping he'd fall to the Lakers. I see him now as being the person that really runs the show, and he's gotten much better at contending with a "sag 5 feet off of him" defense. He's one of the most clever shot-makers in the lane in the game, and obviously his freakish length disrupts passing lanes on the other end of the court. In '08 I thought KG was "the guy" on that team. These day's it's Rondo.

You have improved interior defense in some ways

I've always believed that this is the most common thread amongst title teams, and now that Sheed decided to care, you have 3 elite positional defenders in KG, Sheed, & Perkins. That's manifesting itself against Orlando, because you really don't have to give Howard any extra attention. (side note: Howard's getting good looks, he just isn't skilled enough to convert)

On the other hand, I don't think that you have the shot blocking/shot changing presence that you did in '08, due to KG's decreased athleticism. Perkins is solid in this respect, but after that there isn't much. Even more importantly, Garnett dominated the boards in '08, leading the playoffs in rebounding. He's still a fantastic player, but he isn't that guy anymore. I think he's benefited from favorable matchups where he can utilize his length against Jamison & Lewis.   

But to summarize, I see great positional defenders and average shot-blocking.

The emergence of Tony Allen

Allen gives you a level of athleticism on the perimeter that I think is a really underrated asset. I see him as being similar to what Ariza brought to the table for the Lakers last year in his ability to fill the lane in transition and dive to the hoop for an often spectacular play. But obviously his greatest value is his ability to defend on the perimeter. I'm curious to see him defend Kobe in a 7 game series. Posey did a great job in '08, and I expect Allen to do the same. That being said, I think that Kobe will be able to get some hoops by outsmarting Allen in a way that he couldn't against Posey. We shall (hopefully) see.

All in all, I don't see THAT much that's different about this Celtic squad. There are changes, but nothing drastic. On the Laker end, rotational minutes have gone from...

2008 = Luke Walton, Vladimir Radmanovic, Sasha Vujacic, & Ronny Turiaf

to

2010 = Ron Artest, Andrew Bynum, & Shannon Brown

That's a significant upgrade. None of those 4 guys in '08 have any business being in a championship caliber rotation.

  I'd say that the difference between Rondo in 08 and Rondo now is easily as significant as any of those upgrades. Also, Baby didn't play much in 08 and Sheed's got more left in the tank than PJ did.