Author Topic: Big Three or build around Rondo? (Read 5372 times)

ScoobyDoo · « **on:** May 09, 2010, 09:53:52 PM »

I knwo we're in the middle of what may become an epic series and hopefully a Celtics series win and them advance to the ECF and raise #18, etc. But, I wanted to open discussion on the path forward with this team. This is something I've been thinking about prior to Rondo's game today, it's not a hair trigger reaction.

The following is the path I'd take if I were GM. I'm curious as to what path anyone who cares to answer would take as well.

1. I think the biggest problem with our team is not age or injuries. We had injuries, all teams do. We got healthy eventually as most teams do. The problems with this team is mental intensity and consistency and the starters can "mail it in" for too often.

2. I also think our bench is way too soft and not nearly "nasty" enough, physically.

2. So, this off season, regardles of what happens in this series, I try to do the following:

A) Resign Ray for a one year deal, maybe two years max, at around $8-9.

B) I go out and try to sigg some real hard core tough guys for my bench,along with at least oen real marksman; I'd love to see a bench rotation "along the lines of" a Matt Barnes, Kurt Thomas, Tony Allen, with a Kyle Korver type thrown in and even a Nate Ronbinson for a full season, as he can also light it up.

C) If I could move Rasheed I probably would

I'd see how dominant the team seemed. If I saw the lack of consistent focus and intensity and saw that, even with a re-vamped bench, they weren't going to get it done...

I'd look to blow it up at the trade deadline.

I'd try to move KG and Pierce to contenders for good young talent and draft picks.

Basically, I'd start building a team around Rondo that would compliment "his game" rather than continuing for another 2-3 years of his prime having him work around the vets.

If Ray, Pierce and KG wanted to retire here, I might re-sign Pierce for a much reduced salary along the lines of Ray, ditto for KG.

But if they weren't showing clear signs of being able to put up another banner next season, as a re-vamped team...I'm moving on.

Thoughts?

Jon · « **Reply #1 on:** May 09, 2010, 10:07:58 PM »

Well, there's no rush. Even if we want to, we probably won't be able to move KG until after next season. So my thought is to try to re-sign Ray to a 2 year deal, see how things go next year for the entire year, and then make the call next summer. At that point, we could have KG, Ray, Wallace, and maybe even PP as expiring deals in the 2011-2012 season. We could either make a bunch of deals or be major players in the summer of 2012.

CoachBo · « **Reply #2 on:** May 09, 2010, 10:20:41 PM »

It's a workable plan, but it would most definitely be Plan B for me.

Plan A is to dangle Perkins in several different directions for teams with a want or a need for a defensive 5 - Utah for Boozer, Miami for Beasley are two options I really like. OKC also is in need, but the player I'd want - Jeff Green - won't be available.

It is absolutely imperative to get a "bridge" star or potential star to team with Rondo as the Big 3 transition into older age.

Garnett goes to the 5 and I commit myself to adding a big body behind him at the 5 for the physical centers of the world.

If I have to, I include the 19 pick with Perkins in the deal. If not, I draft Damion James for the bench as a young, versatile 3.

Then, I ask Ray Allen to take a 2 year deal at 15 to 18 large.

Wallace goes, as does Nate Robinson - I hate both of their games, so we're going to need a big and a shooter off the bench - thanks, Danny, for wasting Eddie House on Nate Robinson. Horrid, horrid deal.

Chris · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2010, 10:27:44 PM »

Right now, my perfect summer would have the C's turning Ray and Perk (perhaps through a third team) into a sign and traded Amare, followed by the C's picking up some shooters from the wing (lets say, Travis Outlaw, Kyle Korver, and Luke Babbit), and basically becoming Los Suns East.

I am sure this will change about 30 times before July 1st, but after watching Rondo today, and seeing Los Suns on the verge of sweeping the Spurs, I think I could really get into watching Rondo working in an a wide open game, with KG and Amare up front, and some shooters on the wings.

They may never be able to beat Lebron and whoever he ends up with in the playoffs...but I don't know if there is anyway they would be able to anyways after this year. But I would get over that, if I could watch that kind of basketball.

jdub1660 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2010, 11:15:46 PM »

I think we can build around Rondo as well as keep it goin with the Big 3. But within the next few years, KG/Ray/Pierce's roles have to diminish. Add a few young guys each year, pay for 1 talent each year with the MLE, trade Sheed and Boom. We'll stay contenders every year as the Spurs have been since they got Duncan. Garnett's last year of his contract should be the end of the BIG 3. If they wanna resign for 5-8 mil contracts, take it. Otherwise, we should have new names in the starting lineup with Rondo and Perk.

And a side note of personal needs for this team - ATHLETIC BIGS
Tyrus Thomas and Andre Blatch type players. Guys that can get up there on every possession, block shots and cap Oops. That would compliment Rondo's game the most, along with shooters at the wings.

rav123 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 10, 2010, 04:16:32 AM »

- Ray resigned and Paul resigned (after opting-out) for 2 years so both expire along with KG

- Wallace got rid of. Big Baby promoted to 3rd big, and 4th big is a tall, rebounding, tough defensive centre. An athletic big man, a la Sean Williams is signed to be 5th big (do we have that already in Tony Gaffney?)

-Full MLE spent on a backup wing player, 6'6" or 6'7" so can play both SG and SF. Should be athletic, able to drive a little, rebound a little, defend a little and shoot.

-Solid backup PG who can shoot but is content with facilitating offense signed with Vet Min

Ethan · « **Reply #6 on:** May 10, 2010, 04:28:05 AM »

I think we should be trade Ray in February. I like him a lot but it was necesary. By the way, I wait that Paul continues with us and then we´ll see..

kenmaine · « **Reply #7 on:** May 10, 2010, 05:17:42 AM »

I'd keep the whole starting five.
KG is still playing very well- I'd just keep my fingers crossed and hope he can stay healthy. Ray IMO is the only one of the big three I'd let go, but he has enough very good/great games still that I'd rather keep him. Not sure what's up with PP- but he's not old enough to be washed up, so I give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's injured. And I love PP(good thing I'm not a GM) and would never trade him.

I don't know why Perk is so underappreciated here- I hate his offensive game, but his defense would not be easy to replace.

Now, as far as the bench goes-
Keep TA, keep Big Baby. Dump all the rest.

Who · « **Reply #8 on:** May 10, 2010, 05:41:56 AM »

Not decided yet ... but leaning towards building around Rondo and blowing up this team

(1) Trade Garnett to San Antonio for Richard Jefferson
(2) Trade Pierce + Rasheed to Dallas for Dampier, Stevenson, Barea and possibly a late future first round pick.
(3) Consider trading Perkins to the Utah Jazz for their lottery pick

(4) Sign Tyrus Thomas if Perkins remains on the team. If the C's acquire a lottery pick and select Udoh, then look in another direction. Dorell Wright perhaps.
(5) Draft Paul George

Rondo + Wright + George + Udoh + god knows who ... or
Rondo + Carney + George + Ty Thomas + Perk

And, begin rebuilding properly, trying to make good additions to the team over the next two years and hopefully having a team capable of making a long playoff run by the end of that time.

DavorCroatiaFan · « **Reply #9 on:** May 10, 2010, 06:24:55 AM »

We should rebuild in 2012/13 when we should target Carmelo Anthony , not 2010/11...
This summer:
1) offer Ray 14mil/2yrs...
2) offer Mike Miller full MLE/2yrs...option B Travis Outlaw
3) re-sign Tony Allen 6mil/2yrs
4) try to extend Perk for 28mil/4yrs...32mil/4yrs max...if fail trade him
5) offer Marquis 125% of his contract...
6) offer Nate 125% of his contract...or try to sign&trade him for pass-first veteran PG
7) draft athletic big like Larry Sanders

let Sheldon go
9) bring Erden to be 5th big

Rondo/vet PG/TA
Allen/Miller/TA
Pierce/Miller/Daniels
Garnett/Davis/Sanders
Perkins/Sheed/Erden

In summer of 2012 we would have only Rondo, Perkins and Sanders under contract and could offer max money to Melo...by then Billups is gone and Nuggs are barely playoff team. Melo jumps to oportunity to play with exciting pg in his prime in RR and defencive enforcer Perk and young big Sanders...

LooseCannon · « **Reply #10 on:** May 10, 2010, 06:31:36 AM »

To build around Rondo, you need:

-Some good defensive big men who provide a safety net that allows Rondo to gamble more on defense.
-A good spot-up three-point shooter Rondo can pass to.
-A slasher who can drive to the basket and move without the ball.

I think this series vs. Cleveland is showing that the Celtics are not completely hopeless in their title aspirations. It certainly looks very possible that KG will be better next season than this one because he will be fully recovered.

If keeping the band together, drafting well, and signing a quality free agent for the MLE gives Boston a 10% chance of winning the title next season, I'd much rather take that 1-in-10 shot than blow up the team and reduce it to 0%.

LooseCannon · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2010, 06:34:03 AM »

Quote from: davorceltics@gmail.com on May 10, 2010, 06:24:55 AM

6) offer Nate 125% of his contract...or try to sign&trade him for pass-first veteran PG

I don't think the guy is worth $5 million/year.

celticinorlando · « **Reply #12 on:** May 10, 2010, 07:12:06 AM »

of the big 3..i think ray still can be a major impact. he is in great shape and can still be a 15 plus guy a night. we need to keep ray IMO

slamtheking · « **Reply #13 on:** May 10, 2010, 07:59:09 AM »

The rebuilding will center around Rondo which I think everyone here considers a given. I think the question is when, rather than if.

The way things are looking, I don't think that's going to happen until after KG's contract expires. I think Danny is sticking with this core until then. He'll shuffle bench players until then but the starting lineup will stay the same at least through next year. In KG's last year, there may be a chance Ray shifts to 6th man if Danny picks up a quality guard this year in the draft. I don't think that shift is too likely though simply because I think Danny will resign TA for 2 years, resign Ray for 2 years and use the MLE on either Outlaw or Miller giving the C's 4 good wings (including PP). Neither TA or Outlaw/Miller figures to replace Ray as a starter so Ray will more than likely continue to start while he's here.

What people seem to be dismissing is the possibility of KG not retiring after his contract ends. If he's still playing well after 2 more years, I fully expect him to look for another contract for 2-3 years before retiring. The question is, what do the C's do at that point? He'd probably still be a good player at that point, if not a starter than as the 1st big off the bench. Does Danny just cut him loose or resign him? By then, Danny has resigned PP, probably for 2-3 more years after his current contract expires (and hopefully shifting to 6th man by then and looking to retire a C at the end).

The more I think about the current course, I'd be more surprised than not if Danny actually did blow up the team and trade the big 3. He will hopefully have found some more quality in the draft and picked up some nice players but I don't think he'll be positioned to make a big splash in free agency in 2012.

ssspence · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2010, 08:50:16 AM »

Quote from: Chris on May 09, 2010, 10:27:44 PM

Right now, my perfect summer would have the C's turning Ray and Perk (perhaps through a third team) into a sign and traded Amare, followed by the C's picking up some shooters from the wing (lets say, Travis Outlaw, Kyle Korver, and Luke Babbit), and basically becoming Los Suns East.

I am sure this will change about 30 times before July 1st, but after watching Rondo today, and seeing Los Suns on the verge of sweeping the Spurs, I think I could really get into watching Rondo working in an a wide open game, with KG and Amare up front, and some shooters on the wings.

They may never be able to beat Lebron and whoever he ends up with in the playoffs...but I don't know if there is anyway they would be able to anyways after this year. But I would get over that, if I could watch that kind of basketball.

I'd like to see Ray stay, but agree with you're general perspective. I'd like to see the Cs surround Rondo with shooters and move KG to C. Keep Ray on the cheap and do the same for Pierce when he expires after next year. Trade Perk for a offensive wing like Outlaw. Draft a couple of guys with unique offensive skills -- i.e. shooting or speed -- in 2010 and 2011 (defense can be taught), and use the MLE on an athletic 4 ala Ty Thomas.

There's no reason why this team can't remain a solid defensive squad while pushing the ball up the floor and causing match-up hell with shooters considering the paint needs to be crowded to have any chance of stopping Rondo. We saw it yesterday without much deep shooting at all.

Author Topic: Big Three or build around Rondo? (Read 5372 times)

Big Three or build around Rondo?

ScoobyDoo

Re: Big Three or build around Rondo?

Jon

Re: Big Three or build around Rondo?

CoachBo

Re: Big Three or build around Rondo?

Chris

Re: Big Three or build around Rondo?

jdub1660

Re: Big Three or build around Rondo?

rav123

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Ethan

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kenmaine

Re: Big Three or build around Rondo?

Who

Re: Big Three or build around Rondo?

DavorCroatiaFan

Re: Big Three or build around Rondo?

LooseCannon

Re: Big Three or build around Rondo?

LooseCannon

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celticinorlando

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slamtheking

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ssspence

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