Author Topic: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?  (Read 22444 times)

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Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #105 on: April 09, 2010, 11:56:39 PM »

Offline Q_FBE

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KG is untradeable, period. $40 million over two years? Who wants to trade for a guy who could be done to pay him $40 million.

C's best hope with KG is after this season he retire and renounce the rest of his contract



If this happened (yeah, right) we could rebuild VERY fast. S&T Ray for any asset. Deal PP at the trade deadline next year. We'd be wide open, salary wise.

Plus we could turn the team over to Rasheed's leadership!

Maybe Rasheed should be the coach so he can get 164 technical fouls. Maybe we can trade Rajon Rondo and Perkins for David West and Chris Paul. Maybe we can trade Pierce to the Clippers for Chris Kaman, two no 1s and cap fillers or to Portland for Greg Oden.

Wow..... 2008 was the cash out year.
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Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #106 on: April 10, 2010, 12:13:58 AM »

Offline FatjohnReturns

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If they lose in the first round Doc should be the first to go.

Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #107 on: April 10, 2010, 12:20:54 AM »

Offline snively

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Using the MLE to sign Ty Thomas and then trading Perkins for a wing player

(1) Rondo + Ariza + Pierce + Ty Thomas + Garnett

(2) Rondo + JR Smith + Pierce + Ty Thomas + Garnett

(3) Rondo + Harden + Pierce + Ty Thomas + Garnett

Or use a portion of the MLE on Amundson/Amir, the remainder on a reserve player, and trading Perk for a wing player.

Love the ideas, but I doubt Perk's enough to haul any of those guys.  And I'm almost positive that Ty Thomas will net more than the MLE.  Consider that Darko netted a 3 year/21 mil deal after 3 years riding the bench and one mediocre year with Orlando.  Tyrus' per 36 averages with Charlotte are 16 and 10 with about 2 steals and 2 blocks.  His mid-range game has also improved pretty dramatically (his J looks better than Baby's did last year).  And he's 23, absurdly athletic and has no injury history.

I think the only way we could land Tyrus Thomas is in a sign-and-trade for Ray, or, if Larry Brown's need for Sheed and MJ's alma mater fetish are directing personnel decisions in Charlotte, Rasheed and our 1st round pick.  

Ray Allen at 9 mil per for Tyrus Thomas (at about 8 per for 2 or 3 years) + DJ Augustin would suit me.  The Bobcats have a pretty sizable hole at the 2-guard when they play Gerald Wallace at the 4 (they've been playing Flip Murray and Larry Hughes a combined 38 minutes a game!), and a perimeter scorer like Ray would do wonders for their anemic offense.

Sign Mike Miller and you'd have a pretty nice team: Rondo-Miller-Pierce-Thomas-KG, with Augustin, TA, let's say Bobby Simmons, and Perk off the bench.  That's a solid rebounding team, a good-to-great transition team (two 3-point trailers and 2 bigs who can beat their counterparts up the floor), a versatile defensive team and stronger half-court team (Thomas more of a threat than Perk with his jumper and lesser turnover rate).

Doubt Doc/Danny are as eager to acquire TT as we are, else they would have made a play for him when Chicago was shopping him.  

As for Perk, I think your original idea of trading him to Utah for a late lottery pick is worth revisiting to facilitate KG's move to the 5.  There are some excellent or at least intriguing 4s and 3/4s in the late lottery.  Ed Davis, Al-Farouq Aminu, Patrick Patterson, Damion James, Hassan Whiteside, Ekpe Udoh, Greg Monroe and Stanley Robinson could all go somewhere in between 6 and 15.  There are a couple of Euro bigs I haven't seen who show up in that range on the draft sites as well.

I'd also look into trading Perk for Thabeet to take advantage of Memphis' illusions of proximity to playoff contention, and gain the best of a potential-for-present trade.  Thabeet's shot-blocking ability and potential as a finisher and rebounder put him a ways ahead of Perk as a long-term prospect.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 12:28:40 AM by snively »
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Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #108 on: April 10, 2010, 12:27:09 AM »

Offline jdpapa3

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If they lose in the first round Doc should be the first to go.

And for his own good because it would be the start of another rebuilding effort.

Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #109 on: April 10, 2010, 12:33:28 AM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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If they lose in the first round Doc should be the first to go.

And for his own good because it would be the start of another rebuilding effort.

+1

Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #110 on: April 10, 2010, 12:50:36 AM »

Offline Tradetime

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The team's defense has been atrocious lately. We are the Golden State Celtics for the last month or so now, having to outscore teams instead of getting defensive stops and then shoving it down the opponents' throats on our offense. THAT was Celtic basketball for 07-08 and most of last year until KG went down.

If we go down in the first round, which I'm thinking is quite possible by a Dwayne Wade led Miami team, we will have to reload. I'd say we would have to look at making a trade to acquire a pick in the 15-20 range on top of the picks we already have, and look to start getting youth on this team again.

Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #111 on: April 10, 2010, 01:14:47 AM »

Offline Who

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 And I'm almost positive that Ty Thomas will net more than the MLE.  Consider that Darko netted a 3 year/21 mil deal after 3 years riding the bench and one mediocre year with Orlando.

Tyrus' per 36 averages with Charlotte are 16 and 10 with about 2 steals and 2 blocks.  His mid-range game has also improved pretty dramatically (his J looks better than Baby's did last year).  And he's 23, absurdly athletic and has no injury history.
Darko Milicic is seven feet tall. I don't think he gets the contract offer he got if he was only 6-9. Teams pay more for seven footers especially one's with the talent/potential that many saw in Darko.

Tyrus Thomas has also played almost twice as many minutes as Darko did. At that point, Darko had only one and a half years as a rotation player in the NBA. Prior to that he was glued on the bench. Tyrus Thomas has three/four years of playing regular minutes.

It's mostly the size issue. A 7-0 center versus a 6-9 power forward. Teams will more readily take a chance and pay more for that size because quality centers are so difficult to find.

---------------------------------------------------

I agree that Tyrus Thomas is worth more than MLE -- off the top of my head, I think Ty Thomas is the best value MLE signing since Chauncey Billups -- but I don't think he'll get more than MLE.

Here are the teams who are below the cap -- New York, New Jersey, Miami, Chicago, LA Clippers, Sacramento, Oklahoma, Minnesota -- New Jersey is the only team on that list that I could see making a run at Tyrus Thomas and I think he'll be well down their list. They'll need to strike out on several options before turning their attention to Thomas.

I think Thomas' best chance at a bigger payday is with the Charlotte Bobcats but it still unclear how highly they value Tyrus Thomas. Throw in the proximity of the luxury tax and Raymond Felton's free agency too and things get even murkier.

I would guess that Charlotte play hard ball in free agency -- refuse to make Thomas an offer, or else make him a weak offer (JR Smith money), and force Thomas to go out in free agency and search for a better offer -- and I think that's most likely to be an MLE deal. From there, I have no idea whether they'll match it or not.

Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #112 on: April 10, 2010, 01:16:45 AM »

Offline twinbree

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I wonder. It probably depends on how the FO see KG's health going forward. I think they'll re-sign Ray and try again with this core Doc included. I don't think he'll be fired or at least I hope not :-\

I'm curious to see who they go after this season based on what they see as the biggest needs to fill and whether the role players will get younger and more athletic. But TBH I'm beginning to doubt we can be defeated in the first round. An early exit would be entirely too logical an end to this bizarrely unpredictable season. It'd almost make more sense if we bumbled our way to the finals.
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Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #113 on: April 10, 2010, 01:29:11 AM »

Offline Who

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Using the MLE to sign Ty Thomas and then trading Perkins for a wing player

(1) Rondo + Ariza + Pierce + Ty Thomas + Garnett

(2) Rondo + JR Smith + Pierce + Ty Thomas + Garnett

(3) Rondo + Harden + Pierce + Ty Thomas + Garnett

Or use a portion of the MLE on Amundson/Amir, the remainder on a reserve player, and trading Perk for a wing player.

Love the ideas, but I doubt Perk's enough to haul any of those guys.
Yeah, it's hard to get a good read on what Perk is worth and whether those teams would be willing to give up those players.

My thinking was that Oklahoma badly needs a defensive minded center. That Perkins would make them a top three defensive team + a top three rebounding team. Give them a legit powerful center to stop them getting beat up in the paint. That Sefolosha, due to his defensive abilities and rebounding, is the the long term starter and Harden is seen as the sixth man.

Similar idea with Denver and their continued interest in acquiring another big man. And, Houston, because they want to reduce Yao Ming's minutes and keep them under control after he comes back from this latest injury. I actually think they'd be more likely to give up Battier than Ariza but Ariza due to his quickness is the player that I would want.

Also, the Celtics could include other incentives such as a future draft pick to even out some of the disparity if those teams were indeed interested in acquiring Perk.

I'd also look into trading Perk for Thabeet to take advantage of Memphis' illusions of proximity to playoff contention, and gain the best of a potential-for-present trade.  Thabeet's shot-blocking ability and potential as a finisher and rebounder put him a ways ahead of Perk as a long-term prospect.
Yeah, I was thinking about Perk and Thabeet too. Worth an investigatory call from Danny Ainge.

As for Perk, I think your original idea of trading him to Utah for a late lottery pick is worth revisiting to facilitate KG's move to the 5.  There are some excellent or at least intriguing 4s and 3/4s in the late lottery.  Ed Davis, Al-Farouq Aminu, Patrick Patterson, Damion James, Hassan Whiteside, Ekpe Udoh, Greg Monroe and Stanley Robinson could all go somewhere in between 6 and 15.  There are a couple of Euro bigs I haven't seen who show up in that range on the draft sites as well.
I think Udoh and Aminu are both very interesting in those type of roles. Udoh being a Serge Ibaka type player and Aminu being a Kirilenko type player. I like the idea of either one of those players starting alongside Garnett next season. Greg Monroe is interesting too but I think Udoh and/or Aminu may be able to add more alongside KG.

I don't watch college basketball but based on what I've read and heard about those players ... I would be wary of Robinson, Whiteside, Patterson and Jones. I like Damion Jones as a late first round pick but I'd be hesitant to spend a lottery pick or near lottery pick on him. Ed Davis is very interesting but he sounds like more of a long term prospect than an immediate starter.


Sign Mike Miller and you'd have a pretty nice team: Rondo-Miller-Pierce-Thomas-KG, with Augustin, TA, let's say Bobby Simmons, and Perk off the bench.  That's a solid rebounding team, a good-to-great transition team (two 3-point trailers and 2 bigs who can beat their counterparts up the floor), a versatile defensive team and stronger half-court team (Thomas more of a threat than Perk with his jumper and lesser turnover rate).

I would like to try and get more athleticism and quickness on the wing. That would be my next priority after acquiring the new power forward so I'd view Mike Miller as more of a secondary option. Someone who I would look at, assuming a (sign and) trade for a new PF, if those other options (trading Perk for SG/SF) were not there.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 01:38:18 AM by Who »

Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #114 on: April 10, 2010, 01:33:44 AM »

Offline Who

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The more I think about it the more I like Louis Amundson as a power forward alongside Kevin Garnett. His energy and effort, his rebounding, his defense, his tenacity and aggressiveness, his ability to run the floor, and, his experience in Phoenix's high octane offense.

I think Amundson would be a very nice pairing alongside Garnett.

Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #115 on: April 10, 2010, 01:38:37 AM »

Offline FallGuy

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Using the MLE to sign Ty Thomas and then trading Perkins for a wing player

(1) Rondo + Ariza + Pierce + Ty Thomas + Garnett

(2) Rondo + JR Smith + Pierce + Ty Thomas + Garnett

(3) Rondo + Harden + Pierce + Ty Thomas + Garnett

Or use a portion of the MLE on Amundson/Amir, the remainder on a reserve player, and trading Perk for a wing player.

Love the ideas, but I doubt Perk's enough to haul any of those guys.
Yeah, it's hard to get a good read on what Perk is worth and whether those teams would be willing to give up those players.

My thinking was that Oklahoma badly needs a defensive minded center. That Perkins would make them a top three defensive team + a top three rebounding team. Give them a legit powerful center to stop them getting beat up in the paint. That Sefolosha, due to his defensive abilities and rebounding, is the the long term starter and Harden is seen as the sixth man.

Similar idea with Denver and their continued interest in acquiring another big man. And, Houston, because they want to reduce Yao Ming's minutes. I actually think they'd be more likely to give up Battier but Ariza due to his quickness is the player that I would want.

Also, the Celtics could include other incentives such as a future draft pick to even out some of the disparity if those teams were indeed interested in acquiring Perk.

I'd also look into trading Perk for Thabeet to take advantage of Memphis' illusions of proximity to playoff contention, and gain the best of a potential-for-present trade.  Thabeet's shot-blocking ability and potential as a finisher and rebounder put him a ways ahead of Perk as a long-term prospect.
Yeah, I was thinking about Perk and Thabeet too. Worth an investigatory call from Danny Ainge.

As for Perk, I think your original idea of trading him to Utah for a late lottery pick is worth revisiting to facilitate KG's move to the 5.  There are some excellent or at least intriguing 4s and 3/4s in the late lottery.  Ed Davis, Al-Farouq Aminu, Patrick Patterson, Damion James, Hassan Whiteside, Ekpe Udoh, Greg Monroe and Stanley Robinson could all go somewhere in between 6 and 15.  There are a couple of Euro bigs I haven't seen who show up in that range on the draft sites as well.
I think Udoh and Aminu are both very interesting in those type of roles. Udoh being a Serge Ibaka type player and Aminu being a Kirilenko type player. I like the idea of either one of those players starting alongside Garnett next season. Greg Monroe is interesting too but I think Udoh and/or Aminu may be able to add more alongside KG.

I don't watch college basketball but based on what I've read and heard about those players ... I would be wary of Robinson, Whiteside, Patterson and Jones. I like Damion Jones as a late first round pick but I'd be hesitant to spend a lottery pick or near lottery pick on him. Ed Davis is very interesting but he sounds like more of a long term prospect than an immediate starter.


Sign Mike Miller and you'd have a pretty nice team: Rondo-Miller-Pierce-Thomas-KG, with Augustin, TA, let's say Bobby Simmons, and Perk off the bench.  That's a solid rebounding team, a good-to-great transition team (two 3-point trailers and 2 bigs who can beat their counterparts up the floor), a versatile defensive team and stronger half-court team (Thomas more of a threat than Perk with his jumper and lesser turnover rate).

I would like to try and get more athleticism and quickness on the wing. That would be my second priority after the new power forward so I'd view Mike Miller as more of a secondary option. Someone who I would look at, assuming a (sign and) trade for a new PF, if those other options (trading Perk for SG/SF) were not there.
[/quote

JR Smith is a knucklehead. So is Ty Thomas. Smith is probably the more useful player. But they both have warts.

I like the idea of working the phones with Utah and OKC and HOU.

Really - James Harden should be the minimum we can get for Perk. Not sure OKC sees it that way. But they should give us Harden and one of their nineteen first rounders for Perk, IMO. He'd be the perfect guy for them. And we should do that deal too. I love Ariza even more. Not convinced Morey will give him up though.

Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #116 on: April 10, 2010, 01:43:13 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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The more I think about it the more I like Louis Amundson as a power forward alongside Kevin Garnett. His energy and effort, his rebounding, his defense, his tenacity and aggressiveness, his ability to run the floor, and, his experience in Phoenix's high octane offense.

I think Amundson would be a very nice pairing alongside Garnett.

As a backup, perhaps.  Not as a starter.  I'd much prefer Tyrus Thomas.
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Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #117 on: April 10, 2010, 02:29:28 AM »

Offline Who

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The more I think about it the more I like Louis Amundson as a power forward alongside Kevin Garnett. His energy and effort, his rebounding, his defense, his tenacity and aggressiveness, his ability to run the floor, and, his experience in Phoenix's high octane offense.

I think Amundson would be a very nice pairing alongside Garnett.

As a backup, perhaps.  Not as a starter.  I'd much prefer Tyrus Thomas.
Yeah, I would prefer Ty Thomas too.

I like Amundson as a starter as a fallback option though.

I think he'd do a very good job in that role.

Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #118 on: April 10, 2010, 11:51:15 AM »

Offline snively

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The more I think about it the more I like Louis Amundson as a power forward alongside Kevin Garnett. His energy and effort, his rebounding, his defense, his tenacity and aggressiveness, his ability to run the floor, and, his experience in Phoenix's high octane offense.

I think Amundson would be a very nice pairing alongside Garnett.

As a backup, perhaps.  Not as a starter.  I'd much prefer Tyrus Thomas.
Yeah, I would prefer Ty Thomas too.

I like Amundson as a starter as a fallback option though.

I think he'd do a very good job in that role.

He's kinda like a shorter Varejao, right?  I like it.  Ideally I'd want him as a back-up since he's not much of a threat to score and he's not a shut-down defender, but I could stomach him as a starter.

Tom Ziller brought up another interesting FA I haven't seen play at all: Ian Mahinmi.  His physical profile seems ideal: long, athletic, good rebounder.
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Re: Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?
« Reply #119 on: April 10, 2010, 12:41:16 PM »

Offline Who

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Tom Ziller brought up another interesting FA I haven't seen play at all: Ian Mahinmi.  His physical profile seems ideal: long, athletic, good rebounder.
Mahinmi is a very impressive athlete. A lot like Andray Blatche physically.

He put up good numbers down in the D-League (billed as a star in the making at the time) but he's never managed to crack the Spurs rotation and that worries me because San Antonio has the exact same problems defensively (lack of quickness/mobility amongst their bigs) that Boston are facing. Despite that, Mahinmi hasn't been able to get off the bench and San An appears to have no interest in keeping him another season.

Two years ago, Mahinmi looked to be on the verge of cracking the Spurs lineup but he suffered a season ending injury. He hasn't been able to win his place back since. I saw him play a few summer league games (2008) that year and he looked pretty solid. A raw athlete but played within himself. Effective garbage man and good rebounder. Eager defender but generally out of position. I didn't see him play in summer league this past summer but his numbers are much improved over the previous year. Still, makes me wonder even more why he hasn't gotten any playing time this year.

I have to believe that he's still very raw and still a below average defensive player. I can't see any other reason for him not being on the team sheet more often otherwise.

Mahinmi could be a good risk/reward option as a 15th man on the roster. A sixth or seventh big man in the depth chart.

---------------------------------------------------

I would be more inclined to go after someone like Johan Petro (or Josh Powell) and then add a veteran like Adonal Foyle or Rasho Nesterovic as a third string center when looking for depth. Along with, hopefully, James Singleton and maybe Nazr Mohammed (Sheed trade).

Kyrylo Fesenko is a very interesting player. I'd be willing to take a chance on him at $2-3 million per annum (restricted free agent so have to overpay some to make Utah blink) if the Celtics had some of their MLE left over -- if they missed out on Thomas and went after Amir or Amundson instead.

Fesenko is a solid defender with excellent defensive potential + average rebounder + useful garbage man offensively. He is a rotation caliber player, an 8-15 minute a night type player, a fourth big in the depth chart. He'd add some legitimate size (7-1, 280lbs) off the bench too.

Utah should have been trying to get Fesenko more playing time this season. He could have been a help to their playoff hopes if he'd been getting consistent court time throughout the year.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 12:46:23 PM by Who »