Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?

[FallGuy]

I never said Rondo wasnt a good player I just think his gambeling combined with decreased lateral movement from the bigs is a huge problem. He just isnt the right player for the group of veterans we have.

Now his value is high its a great time to trade him for a legit Power Forward. If we could get a Bosh or Boozer sign and trade then all you really need is a point guard who can defend and doesnt turn the ball over. You resign Ray and run the offense thru Pierce,Ray,
KG, Bosh whoever. Without a LEGIT upgrade on the frontline we are toast next year going forward.

You're not getting Bosh for a BYC Rondo. The Raps have money tied up in two PGs already. And Utah has Deron Williams.

The truth is that the core pieces of our frontline are what they are next year unless we deal Perk and start retooling.

[Chris]

Hard to imagine them getting bounced in the first round. I would think a second round exit is more likely. Either way Ainge will make some changes. I would

1- Let Doc go.  Docs a great guy but he has not got the job done this year. I would like to see them bring in JVG if possible.

2-Get rid of Rasheed any way possible. Rasheed+beloved Celtics= epic fail see any of the many Rasheed threads in the forum.

3- Trade Rondo for a legit power forward.(Bosh,Boozer,Amare in a package with Rasheed or Baby either trade or sign and trade)   Rondo is the team best trade assest unfortunetly his defense is poor and it puts alot of pressure on the back line to cover for him and they simply cannont do it. Its understandable that Rondo cant defend bigger stronger guards like Billups and D Will but if he cant stop guys like Brooks and Collison then who can he defend?

4- Resign Ray. Ray is not the problem its Docs emphasis on playing team ball even when the team is not performing. If Ray got the touches other premier shooting guards get(Kobe,Wade)he would be putting up huge numbers. Look what happened when they went away from Ray in the Easter Day game. The offense should be running thru Ray every game.

5- Resign Perkins. Who plays Dwight Howard better than Perkins?

  So you want to trade Rondo, who might make the all-defense team again, because his defense is so bad, but you also want to re-sign Ray? Wow.

He is killing the back line defense with all the gambles. If he makes the all defensive team it will only be for his steals total.
Watch the press conference after he breaks the single season record.
KG doesnt sound too impressed.

  Rondo didn't sound too impressed either. And when the opposing pgs get inot the lane it's much more likely to be from a pick than Rondo gambling.

  They have production by opponents per 48 minutes for all the players on 82games.com. I checked a week or so ago and out of all the starting pgs Rondo was top 8-10 in fewest fg attempts and points allowed, was 5th or so in rebounding differential, allowed the fewest assists and forced the most turnovers. His assist/turnover ratio frequently approaches double what he allows and he scores over 50% more from the inside than his opponents do.

I never said Rondo wasnt a good player I just think his gambeling combined with decreased lateral movement from the bigs is a huge problem. He just isnt the right player for the group of veterans we have.

Now his value is high its a great time to trade him for a legit Power Forward. If we could get a Bosh or Boozer sign and trade then all you really need is a point guard who can defend and doesnt turn the ball over. You resign Ray and run the offense thru Pierce,Ray,
KG, Bosh whoever. Without a LEGIT upgrade on the frontline we are toast next year going forward.

Bosh?  OK, it is worth considering (although I don't think trading Rondo in a sign and trade is good value), but Boozer for Rondo and filler makes no sense.  Rondo just has way too much value, and Boozer has very questionable value, and is destined to be overpaid.  Not to mention Boozer has just as many holes in his game as Rondo does, plus he can't stay on the court.

Now, a trade of Ray and Perkins for Boozer and a draft pick makes a lot more sense from both teams.

While I don't think Rondo should be completely off the table (I was a proponent of trading him last summer), you only do it if you can get an elite, young player.  And Boozer is neither elite, nor that young.  And more likely, you would be looking for 2 young assets for a guy like Rondo, whose value is incredibly high right now, despite the fact that he would be a tough contract to match.

[Who]

They darn well better blow it up if the C's lose in the first round

[BballTim]

Hard to imagine them getting bounced in the first round. I would think a second round exit is more likely. Either way Ainge will make some changes. I would

1- Let Doc go.  Docs a great guy but he has not got the job done this year. I would like to see them bring in JVG if possible.

2-Get rid of Rasheed any way possible. Rasheed+beloved Celtics= epic fail see any of the many Rasheed threads in the forum.

3- Trade Rondo for a legit power forward.(Bosh,Boozer,Amare in a package with Rasheed or Baby either trade or sign and trade)   Rondo is the team best trade assest unfortunetly his defense is poor and it puts alot of pressure on the back line to cover for him and they simply cannont do it. Its understandable that Rondo cant defend bigger stronger guards like Billups and D Will but if he cant stop guys like Brooks and Collison then who can he defend?

4- Resign Ray. Ray is not the problem its Docs emphasis on playing team ball even when the team is not performing. If Ray got the touches other premier shooting guards get(Kobe,Wade)he would be putting up huge numbers. Look what happened when they went away from Ray in the Easter Day game. The offense should be running thru Ray every game.

5- Resign Perkins. Who plays Dwight Howard better than Perkins?

  So you want to trade Rondo, who might make the all-defense team again, because his defense is so bad, but you also want to re-sign Ray? Wow.

He is killing the back line defense with all the gambles. If he makes the all defensive team it will only be for his steals total.
Watch the press conference after he breaks the single season record.
KG doesnt sound too impressed.

  Rondo didn't sound too impressed either. And when the opposing pgs get inot the lane it's much more likely to be from a pick than Rondo gambling.

  They have production by opponents per 48 minutes for all the players on 82games.com. I checked a week or so ago and out of all the starting pgs Rondo was top 8-10 in fewest fg attempts and points allowed, was 5th or so in rebounding differential, allowed the fewest assists and forced the most turnovers. His assist/turnover ratio frequently approaches double what he allows and he scores over 50% more from the inside than his opponents do.

I never said Rondo wasnt a good player I just think his gambeling combined with decreased lateral movement from the bigs is a huge problem. He just isnt the right player for the group of veterans we have.

Now his value is high its a great time to trade him for a legit Power Forward. If we could get a Bosh or Boozer sign and trade then all you really need is a point guard who can defend and doesnt turn the ball over. You resign Ray and run the offense thru Pierce,Ray,
KG, Bosh whoever. Without a LEGIT upgrade on the frontline we are toast next year going forward.

  Other point guards aren't going to be the right player any more than Rondo is. You seem to think that Rondo's man gets by him more than the average pg. This isn't the case. And running the offense through Paul and Ray in 2011 won't be anywhere near as effective as it was in 2008.

[FallGuy]

They darn well better blow it up if the C's lose in the first round

Dead certainty. We go out in the first round and it's rebuilding time.

[Witch-King]

I've pondered this a bit and after seeing what Kobe and Manu just got, why the heck wouldn't Pierce opt out? He is a lock to secure more than 21 mil in a contract.

A lock to get more than 21M/per year in a multi-year contract?

Me thinks not.

Pierce is a better scorer, shooter (% wise) than both players. You can't deny the efficiency of Ray and Pierce as a sg/sf combo...

[FatjohnReturns]

Hard to imagine them getting bounced in the first round. I would think a second round exit is more likely. Either way Ainge will make some changes. I would

1- Let Doc go.  Docs a great guy but he has not got the job done this year. I would like to see them bring in JVG if possible.

2-Get rid of Rasheed any way possible. Rasheed+beloved Celtics= epic fail see any of the many Rasheed threads in the forum.

3- Trade Rondo for a legit power forward.(Bosh,Boozer,Amare in a package with Rasheed or Baby either trade or sign and trade)   Rondo is the team best trade assest unfortunetly his defense is poor and it puts alot of pressure on the back line to cover for him and they simply cannont do it. Its understandable that Rondo cant defend bigger stronger guards like Billups and D Will but if he cant stop guys like Brooks and Collison then who can he defend?

4- Resign Ray. Ray is not the problem its Docs emphasis on playing team ball even when the team is not performing. If Ray got the touches other premier shooting guards get(Kobe,Wade)he would be putting up huge numbers. Look what happened when they went away from Ray in the Easter Day game. The offense should be running thru Ray every game.

5- Resign Perkins. Who plays Dwight Howard better than Perkins?

  So you want to trade Rondo, who might make the all-defense team again, because his defense is so bad, but you also want to re-sign Ray? Wow.

He is killing the back line defense with all the gambles. If he makes the all defensive team it will only be for his steals total.
Watch the press conference after he breaks the single season record.
KG doesnt sound too impressed.

  Rondo didn't sound too impressed either. And when the opposing pgs get inot the lane it's much more likely to be from a pick than Rondo gambling.

  They have production by opponents per 48 minutes for all the players on 82games.com. I checked a week or so ago and out of all the starting pgs Rondo was top 8-10 in fewest fg attempts and points allowed, was 5th or so in rebounding differential, allowed the fewest assists and forced the most turnovers. His assist/turnover ratio frequently approaches double what he allows and he scores over 50% more from the inside than his opponents do.

I never said Rondo wasnt a good player I just think his gambeling combined with decreased lateral movement from the bigs is a huge problem. He just isnt the right player for the group of veterans we have.

Now his value is high its a great time to trade him for a legit Power Forward. If we could get a Bosh or Boozer sign and trade then all you really need is a point guard who can defend and doesnt turn the ball over. You resign Ray and run the offense thru Pierce,Ray,
KG, Bosh whoever. Without a LEGIT upgrade on the frontline we are toast next year going forward.

Bosh?  OK, it is worth considering (although I don't think trading Rondo in a sign and trade is good value), but Boozer for Rondo and filler makes no sense.  Rondo just has way too much value, and Boozer has very questionable value, and is destined to be overpaid.  Not to mention Boozer has just as many holes in his game as Rondo does, plus he can't stay on the court.

Now, a trade of Ray and Perkins for Boozer and a draft pick makes a lot more sense from both teams.

While I don't think Rondo should be completely off the table (I was a proponent of trading him last summer), you only do it if you can get an elite, young player.  And Boozer is neither elite, nor that young.  And more likely, you would be looking for 2 young assets for a guy like Rondo, whose value is incredibly high right now, despite the fact that he would be a tough contract to match.

Now how in the world can we trade Perkins and ever expect to win the Eastern Conference in the next 10-12 years. You saw what Howard did to the Cavs in last years playoffs right? There are 2 centers in the league that can contain Dwight and lucky for us we have Perk.
You cannont trade Perk.

Rondo is the only high value assest we have that could bring a legit big man back. Lets say you could get Bosh+Calderon(sign and trade) for Rondo and Baby. Would we not contend next year with Calderon/Ray/Pierce/Bosh/Perkins and Garnett?

[jdpapa3]

They darn well better blow it up if the C's lose in the first round

Dead certainty. We go out in the first round and it's rebuilding time.

I wouldn't limit it to the first round. A second round or possibly even third round shellacking would make it fairly obvious that the team needs to change objectives.

Can't even blame Danny for holding onto Ray Allen. Seems he tried very hard for a nice Ray deal, but teams weren't offering enough or dangling other deadly contracts along with worthy replacements. I just think if Lebron tweaked his ankle or something and Cleveland became vulnerable(they still can) and we were sitting there with Tony Allen sitting at sg and Jared Jeffries on the bench, it'd be very frustrating that we threw a Finals appearance opportunity out the window.

[FallGuy]

They darn well better blow it up if the C's lose in the first round

Dead certainty. We go out in the first round and it's rebuilding time.

I wouldn't limit it to the first round. A second round or possibly even third round shellacking would make it fairly obvious that the team needs to change objectives.

Can't even blame Danny for holding onto Ray Allen. Seems he tried very hard for a nice Ray deal, but teams weren't offering enough or dangling other deadly contracts along with worthy replacements. I just think if Lebron tweaked his ankle or something and Cleveland became vulnerable(they still can) and we were sitting there with Tony Allen sitting at sg and Jared Jeffries on the bench, it'd be very frustrating that we threw a Finals appearance opportunity out the window.

Totally agree with you. A first round knockout means we're into a new phase (and an interesting summer) but if we get shredded in any round up to, what, the finals maybe - we're probably looking at significant changes.

This makes me happy. I think Danny really has his finger on the pulse of this team.

[nickagneta]

Regarding Pierce, let's not forget that the lockout could get very, very ugly and maybe last one season. So if he doesn't opt out, worse case labor situation occurs and the lockout costs the league the 2011-2012 season, Pierce is coming back as an unrestricted free agent at age 35 who hasn't played competitive NBA basketball in a year.

What's his worth then and will he even garner an MLE offer? I doubt it. So that $21 million might just be his last big pay day if he decides not to opt out with prospects for more than MLE money after that rather slim given the good chances of a lockout that last quite a while.

His smartest move might just be to opt out and attempt to sign a 3 year $40-42 million contract.

And maybe, just maybe, Danny's smartest move might be to sign and trade Pierce if he does opt out.

just a thought.

[Chris]

Hard to imagine them getting bounced in the first round. I would think a second round exit is more likely. Either way Ainge will make some changes. I would

1- Let Doc go.  Docs a great guy but he has not got the job done this year. I would like to see them bring in JVG if possible.

2-Get rid of Rasheed any way possible. Rasheed+beloved Celtics= epic fail see any of the many Rasheed threads in the forum.

3- Trade Rondo for a legit power forward.(Bosh,Boozer,Amare in a package with Rasheed or Baby either trade or sign and trade)   Rondo is the team best trade assest unfortunetly his defense is poor and it puts alot of pressure on the back line to cover for him and they simply cannont do it. Its understandable that Rondo cant defend bigger stronger guards like Billups and D Will but if he cant stop guys like Brooks and Collison then who can he defend?

4- Resign Ray. Ray is not the problem its Docs emphasis on playing team ball even when the team is not performing. If Ray got the touches other premier shooting guards get(Kobe,Wade)he would be putting up huge numbers. Look what happened when they went away from Ray in the Easter Day game. The offense should be running thru Ray every game.

5- Resign Perkins. Who plays Dwight Howard better than Perkins?

  So you want to trade Rondo, who might make the all-defense team again, because his defense is so bad, but you also want to re-sign Ray? Wow.

He is killing the back line defense with all the gambles. If he makes the all defensive team it will only be for his steals total.
Watch the press conference after he breaks the single season record.
KG doesnt sound too impressed.

  Rondo didn't sound too impressed either. And when the opposing pgs get inot the lane it's much more likely to be from a pick than Rondo gambling.

  They have production by opponents per 48 minutes for all the players on 82games.com. I checked a week or so ago and out of all the starting pgs Rondo was top 8-10 in fewest fg attempts and points allowed, was 5th or so in rebounding differential, allowed the fewest assists and forced the most turnovers. His assist/turnover ratio frequently approaches double what he allows and he scores over 50% more from the inside than his opponents do.

I never said Rondo wasnt a good player I just think his gambeling combined with decreased lateral movement from the bigs is a huge problem. He just isnt the right player for the group of veterans we have.

Now his value is high its a great time to trade him for a legit Power Forward. If we could get a Bosh or Boozer sign and trade then all you really need is a point guard who can defend and doesnt turn the ball over. You resign Ray and run the offense thru Pierce,Ray,
KG, Bosh whoever. Without a LEGIT upgrade on the frontline we are toast next year going forward.

Bosh?  OK, it is worth considering (although I don't think trading Rondo in a sign and trade is good value), but Boozer for Rondo and filler makes no sense.  Rondo just has way too much value, and Boozer has very questionable value, and is destined to be overpaid.  Not to mention Boozer has just as many holes in his game as Rondo does, plus he can't stay on the court.

Now, a trade of Ray and Perkins for Boozer and a draft pick makes a lot more sense from both teams.

While I don't think Rondo should be completely off the table (I was a proponent of trading him last summer), you only do it if you can get an elite, young player.  And Boozer is neither elite, nor that young.  And more likely, you would be looking for 2 young assets for a guy like Rondo, whose value is incredibly high right now, despite the fact that he would be a tough contract to match.

Now how in the world can we trade Perkins and ever expect to win the Eastern Conference in the next 10-12 years. You saw what Howard did to the Cavs in last years playoffs right? There are 2 centers in the league that can contain Dwight and lucky for us we have Perk.
You cannont trade Perk.

Rondo is the only high value assest we have that could bring a legit big man back. Lets say you could get Bosh+Calderon(sign and trade) for Rondo and Baby. Would we not contend next year with Calderon/Ray/Pierce/Bosh/Perkins and Garnett?

Perkins does well against Howard.  Yes, I agree.  He also gets killed by Andrew Bogut.  So by this reasoning, we need to always hope to play Orlando, but never play Milwaukee.

Role playing Centers do not win championships, talent wins championships.  If you can upgrade your talent, then you have a better chance of winning a championship, than overpaying to keep an average overall player, just because he excels at defending one other player.

BTW, Rasheed Wallace is possibly as good as Perk at defending Howard, and Glen Davis is very good at it as well.  If we were able to upgrade the team in other areas by trading Perkins, we can find a way to handle Howard.

As for the Rondo for Bosh+Calderon deal, of course I would do it.  Bosh is a very young superstar.  If they could get a deal like that, I would jump at it.  But it is one of the very few that I think do make sense for trading Rondo.

Of course, I still think this team would have to consider trading either Perk or KG after a deal like that, but that is another issue.

[Who]

Moving Garnett to center and bringing in a talented power forward is an interesting line of thought.

That would change the whole dynamic of the team. Add another scoring threat and hopefully improve the team's quickness defensively too.

[wiley]

Hard to imagine them getting bounced in the first round. I would think a second round exit is more likely. Either way Ainge will make some changes. I would

1- Let Doc go.  Docs a great guy but he has not got the job done this year. I would like to see them bring in JVG if possible.

2-Get rid of Rasheed any way possible. Rasheed+beloved Celtics= epic fail see any of the many Rasheed threads in the forum.

3- Trade Rondo for a legit power forward.(Bosh,Boozer,Amare in a package with Rasheed or Baby either trade or sign and trade)   Rondo is the team best trade assest unfortunetly his defense is poor and it puts alot of pressure on the back line to cover for him and they simply cannont do it. Its understandable that Rondo cant defend bigger stronger guards like Billups and D Will but if he cant stop guys like Brooks and Collison then who can he defend?

4- Resign Ray. Ray is not the problem its Docs emphasis on playing team ball even when the team is not performing. If Ray got the touches other premier shooting guards get(Kobe,Wade)he would be putting up huge numbers. Look what happened when they went away from Ray in the Easter Day game. The offense should be running thru Ray every game.

5- Resign Perkins. Who plays Dwight Howard better than Perkins?

  So you want to trade Rondo, who might make the all-defense team again, because his defense is so bad, but you also want to re-sign Ray? Wow.

He is killing the back line defense with all the gambles. If he makes the all defensive team it will only be for his steals total.
Watch the press conference after he breaks the single season record.
KG doesnt sound too impressed.

  Rondo didn't sound too impressed either. And when the opposing pgs get inot the lane it's much more likely to be from a pick than Rondo gambling.

  They have production by opponents per 48 minutes for all the players on 82games.com. I checked a week or so ago and out of all the starting pgs Rondo was top 8-10 in fewest fg attempts and points allowed, was 5th or so in rebounding differential, allowed the fewest assists and forced the most turnovers. His assist/turnover ratio frequently approaches double what he allows and he scores over 50% more from the inside than his opponents do.

I never said Rondo wasnt a good player I just think his gambeling combined with decreased lateral movement from the bigs is a huge problem. He just isnt the right player for the group of veterans we have.

Now his value is high its a great time to trade him for a legit Power Forward. If we could get a Bosh or Boozer sign and trade then all you really need is a point guard who can defend and doesnt turn the ball over. You resign Ray and run the offense thru Pierce,Ray,
KG, Bosh whoever. Without a LEGIT upgrade on the frontline we are toast next year going forward.

I waited too long for a good PG.  Now we lucked (or skill via Ainge) into a great one.  Can't give him up.  People forget how horrible is to have a lousy PG.  It's terribly depressing.
Bosh would be nice, but just as Rondo can't do it all by himself, neither can Bosh.

[BballTim]

Hard to imagine them getting bounced in the first round. I would think a second round exit is more likely. Either way Ainge will make some changes. I would

1- Let Doc go.  Docs a great guy but he has not got the job done this year. I would like to see them bring in JVG if possible.

2-Get rid of Rasheed any way possible. Rasheed+beloved Celtics= epic fail see any of the many Rasheed threads in the forum.

3- Trade Rondo for a legit power forward.(Bosh,Boozer,Amare in a package with Rasheed or Baby either trade or sign and trade)   Rondo is the team best trade assest unfortunetly his defense is poor and it puts alot of pressure on the back line to cover for him and they simply cannont do it. Its understandable that Rondo cant defend bigger stronger guards like Billups and D Will but if he cant stop guys like Brooks and Collison then who can he defend?

4- Resign Ray. Ray is not the problem its Docs emphasis on playing team ball even when the team is not performing. If Ray got the touches other premier shooting guards get(Kobe,Wade)he would be putting up huge numbers. Look what happened when they went away from Ray in the Easter Day game. The offense should be running thru Ray every game.

5- Resign Perkins. Who plays Dwight Howard better than Perkins?

  So you want to trade Rondo, who might make the all-defense team again, because his defense is so bad, but you also want to re-sign Ray? Wow.

He is killing the back line defense with all the gambles. If he makes the all defensive team it will only be for his steals total.
Watch the press conference after he breaks the single season record.
KG doesnt sound too impressed.

  Rondo didn't sound too impressed either. And when the opposing pgs get inot the lane it's much more likely to be from a pick than Rondo gambling.

  They have production by opponents per 48 minutes for all the players on 82games.com. I checked a week or so ago and out of all the starting pgs Rondo was top 8-10 in fewest fg attempts and points allowed, was 5th or so in rebounding differential, allowed the fewest assists and forced the most turnovers. His assist/turnover ratio frequently approaches double what he allows and he scores over 50% more from the inside than his opponents do.

I never said Rondo wasnt a good player I just think his gambeling combined with decreased lateral movement from the bigs is a huge problem. He just isnt the right player for the group of veterans we have.

Now his value is high its a great time to trade him for a legit Power Forward. If we could get a Bosh or Boozer sign and trade then all you really need is a point guard who can defend and doesnt turn the ball over. You resign Ray and run the offense thru Pierce,Ray,
KG, Bosh whoever. Without a LEGIT upgrade on the frontline we are toast next year going forward.

Bosh?  OK, it is worth considering (although I don't think trading Rondo in a sign and trade is good value), but Boozer for Rondo and filler makes no sense.  Rondo just has way too much value, and Boozer has very questionable value, and is destined to be overpaid.  Not to mention Boozer has just as many holes in his game as Rondo does, plus he can't stay on the court.

Now, a trade of Ray and Perkins for Boozer and a draft pick makes a lot more sense from both teams.

While I don't think Rondo should be completely off the table (I was a proponent of trading him last summer), you only do it if you can get an elite, young player.  And Boozer is neither elite, nor that young.  And more likely, you would be looking for 2 young assets for a guy like Rondo, whose value is incredibly high right now, despite the fact that he would be a tough contract to match.

Now how in the world can we trade Perkins and ever expect to win the Eastern Conference in the next 10-12 years. You saw what Howard did to the Cavs in last years playoffs right? There are 2 centers in the league that can contain Dwight and lucky for us we have Perk.
You cannont trade Perk.

Rondo is the only high value assest we have that could bring a legit big man back. Lets say you could get Bosh+Calderon(sign and trade) for Rondo and Baby. Would we not contend next year with Calderon/Ray/Pierce/Bosh/Perkins and Garnett?

  First of all, I doubt that a Calderon/Ray backcourt is going to contend for anything next year. Secondly, you claim that Rondo isn't a good fit because of his defense, and you want to replace him with Calderon? That's like replacing Ray with Nate to get more height at the sg spot. And you're well over $10M off on your salaries, assuming they'd trade Bosh and Calderon to get Rondo.

[BballTim]

Moving Garnett to center and bringing in a talented power forward is an interesting line of thought.

That would change the whole dynamic of the team. Add another scoring threat and hopefully improve the team's quickness defensively too.

  Not necessarily a scoring threat, but if you move KG to center, I'd think about Perk for Love. Gives Minny a center to pair with Big Al, and the salaries aren't that far off.