When does optimism meet reality?

[slamtheking]

I think it's a 2-stage process.

First stage: when do the hopes/aspirations of being a top contender for the title take their first ding and those hopes/aspirations change to hope they can just contend.

Second stage: when do the hopes they can contend or possibly win a title take their final death blow and there's no hope of winning a title at all.

For me, the first stage was late-January when the team had really gotten into its current funk.  Doubts crept in as to whether this was a top-flight contender.

I haven't hit the second stage yet and probably won't until they're in an elimination game and there's no hope of winning the game.  (That's not the start of the game but more like down 20 in the 4th quarter.)

[thirstyboots18]

When any sports season starts, being a fan means hoping and dreaming that your team will win it all. Every new season brings that chance that every little thing could go right and the team could do this and that rookie could become this and that player could break out and all the stars will align and a championship will be celebrated at the end of the season. Hope is there and optimism abounds and cheering your team on becomes a joy .

But with the exception of championship years there always comes that point where optimism meets reality. The point where you realize that your team just isn't good enough to win the championship. For some fans that time comes in spring training or training camp or the pre-season. Some teams just aren't good enough from the get go. For others it comes early in the season. Still others that moment doesn't arrive until much later in the season, like maybe the playoffs. And yet, for others, the hopeless hopeful, that moment doesn't come until the final whistle, horn or out of the season.

But that moment always comes unless your team wins it all. So, regarding this Celtics team, has that moment come for you? If so when did it come for you? And for those where this moment hasn't arrived, when does it usually arrive for you?

For me, in 2007-08, it never arrived. I thought that team would win it all until the end and they did. It was the first time I felt like that about a Celtics team since the late 80's. Last year, it didn't arrive until the 4th quarter of game seven versus Orlando. Sure, in retrospect, I guess I should have known better seeing that KG was injured and that Leon was then injured. But I couldn't help myself. Until Orlando pulled away in the fourth in that game seven, I just was positive that team could win it all.

But this year, it's a different story. That moment arrived on February 10th, the day before the All-Star break. After watching Darren Collison do a number on the Celtics and watch the Hornets blitz the Celtics in the second half of that game, optimism met reality for me and I knew they couldn't win it all this year. That game is the perfect example of this Celtic season. Strong start, no excellent start. Horrible middle and weak ending with serious lack of effort and watching inferior players and teams do a number on them while this Celtics team whines to the refs and wonders how it all happened.

Now, just because your optimism has met your reality doesn't mean that you are any more or less of a fan or that you can't be proven wrong. As any Red Sox fan knows, your optimism can meet your reality and you can still win the championship. Need I say anything more than Games 4,5,6,and 7 of the 2004 ALCS. I think my optimism met my reality so much during those games that they became married.

And on the other side of the coin, just because your optimism doesn't meet your reality until that final buzzer or horn or whatever, it doesn't mean that you are any more or less of a fan. Your are the eternal optimist believing in something until the very end and that's okay, too. This world could use more people like you.

But in the end, unless your team wins it all, and let's face it, even with the success of the Celtics as a franchise, unless you are in your 60's or older, your optimism meets your reality way more often than that championship season. So tell me, do you really need for that final buzzer to sound or does it creep in earlier, even if it is a quarter or half or game or half a season earlier?

Nick, I just found the thread and want you to know that I appreciate the bye you are giving me because of my advance age.  Somehow I cant stop being optimistic until I am "Proven" wrong.   

[Drucci]

On another note, there are a lot of people on here saying they don't hit this point until the final buzzer sounds eliminating us. That just isn't true. You may not admit on this site or to your friends you've given up, but you will have given up hope long before that if you haven't already. There is nothing wrong with admitting that we just aren't healthy enough as a team to win the title this year. That's just reality.

TP.

I've been wanting to say this and just didn't want to for fear of the thread going in a direction of us versus them realists vs optimists, but I kind of feel the same way. Though in defense of that, I have had year's where I really didn't give up hope until the very end. The 2003 and 2008 Red Sox were like that for me.

To be honest, I don't agree.

The main reason is that I have no clue *why* we are under-performing the way we are. If it really is all effort, or whatever, and they will be able to switch on in the playoffs, hey, that's fine with me!

Honestly. With this team, I have no idea what might happen. So that's why I say I hope.

And I'll do that until we're out of it.

I agree with Kiorrik in the sense that we don't really know what to expect from this team. The Celtics have shown their best and their worst all season long, and often the two in one mere game (first half/second half).

My confidence would clearly be shaken if we had got blown out by all the other contenders everytime we played them. Sure, we've lost the majority of these games but we've dominated these teams for 2 quarters most of the time (and 3 quarters sometimes). Of course, if you don't hang to the lead and lose the game it's "useless" but the Celtics have shown repeatedly that they can bring their A game and dominate the other best teams.

It just adds to the "they're bored, wait for the playoffs" theory in the sense that the players probably feel that they have what it takes to beat these teams but will wait for the games that matter.

I'm not saying I agree with this mentality and of course all the problems of this team are not related to that mindset. But... frankly, it seems obvious to me that this team lacks focus, badly.

So I expect them to turn it around in the playoffs.

PS : I just thought of it while typing this post, and I don't want to go off topic but you should take a look at the Lakers' record, especially against "contenders" and good teams, and you will see that they are not better than us (if not worst). So, would you say that the Lakers won't win the championship because of their record against good teams and their overall record (not so good when you think about ours)?

To me, it ultimately comes down to talent and desire - we lack desire in the season but we have the talent for the playoffs. If the desire shows up, then... watch out.

[Mr October]

How about how long it takes for KG and Pierce to recover from injuries, or the number of injury bugs KG and Pierce have had?

Does age have anything to do with that?

And do those nagging injuries have anything to do with the number of losses?

The Celtics sure looked old in their road loss last night.

Again, in Bird's final season where he only played about 45 games due to injury...Boston was still 34-7 at home.

The problem with this team isn't that it might have looked old on the road in the 77th game of the season.

Mike

So if age and the injuries/slow recovery associated with age aren't the issue or aren't even part of the issue, what is it?

[Mr October]

How about how long it takes for KG and Pierce to recover from injuries, or the number of injury bugs KG and Pierce have had?

Does age have anything to do with that?

And do those nagging injuries have anything to do with the number of losses?

The Celtics sure looked old in their road loss last night.

Again, in Bird's final season where he only played about 45 games due to injury...Boston was still 34-7 at home.

The problem with this team isn't that it might have looked old on the road in the 77th game of the season.

Mike

So if age and the injuries/slow recovery associated with age aren't the issue or aren't even part of the issue, what is it?

As I stated earlier, my answer is that i think because they are older and have injury issues, and want to save themselves for the playoffs, they get too relaxed at home, and don't put forth the same level of hustle. They take home court for granted.

[MBunge]

So if age and the injuries/slow recovery associated with age aren't the issue or aren't even part of the issue, what is it?

Being mentally soft, physically lazy and having a coach who thinks making an adjustment when things aren't working is a moral sin.

Mike

[Who]

Last Season -- When they said Garnett would definitely not be returning in the playoffs

This season -- 6 weeks after KG returned from injury layoff. At that point he was unable to consistently play at a peak level. A good level but not a peak level. That combined with the decline of Ray Allen and more importantly Paul Pierce was death's knoll.

That said, while Boston are not the best team in the league or even the second or third best team, they are still within striking range ... a lucky playoff run could still net them a title. But they'll need other teams to under-perform to get there.

[MBunge]

As I stated earlier, my answer is that i think because they are older and have injury issues, and want to save themselves for the playoffs, they get too relaxed at home, and don't put forth the same level of hustle. They take home court for granted.

Not busting your butt to win at home in front of your fans and giving more effort on the road is a great example of how messed up this team is mentally.

If this team had the same record but was 30-9 at home and 18-20 on the road, everybody would feel a lot better.  That's because there would be plenty of evidence of the team being able to compete at an elite level and it would be easy to imagine the team upping their effort when the playoffs roll around.  But these Celtics have played so incredibly poorly at times for their talent and experience level that it's almost impossible to see them elevating their game to championship level.

Mike

[Mr October]

So if age and the injuries/slow recovery associated with age aren't the issue or aren't even part of the issue, what is it?

Being mentally soft, physically lazy and having a coach who thinks making an adjustment when things aren't working is a moral sin.

Mike

So KG, Pierce, etc became mentally soft and physically lazy this season? ...Out of nowhere? And shouldn't a soft, lazy team have a worse road record? And shouldn't the coach's flaws also present themselves on the road?

We'll just disagree on the age thing. That's cool. Thanks for your thoughts. Go Celtics!!

[Mr October]

As I stated earlier, my answer is that i think because they are older and have injury issues, and want to save themselves for the playoffs, they get too relaxed at home, and don't put forth the same level of hustle. They take home court for granted.

Not busting your butt to win at home in front of your fans and giving more effort on the road is a great example of how messed up this team is mentally.

If this team had the same record but was 30-9 at home and 18-20 on the road, everybody would feel a lot better.  That's because there would be plenty of evidence of the team being able to compete at an elite level and it would be easy to imagine the team upping their effort when the playoffs roll around.  But these Celtics have played so incredibly poorly at times for their talent and experience level that it's almost impossible to see them elevating their game to championship level.

Mike

To be honest the excellent road record gives me confidence that the Celtics can indeed flip the switch in the playoffs. ...unlike say recent Jazz and Trailblazer teams that play awesome at home in the regular season, and then get crushed in the 1st round every year.

Anyway this year has been a mixed bag, and I hope the C's surprise us when the big games start.

[mobilija]

On another note, there are a lot of people on here saying they don't hit this point until the final buzzer sounds eliminating us. That just isn't true. You may not admit on this site or to your friends you've given up, but you will have given up hope long before that if you haven't already. There is nothing wrong with admitting that we just aren't healthy enough as a team to win the title this year. That's just reality.

Is it reality, though?  Why are you so sure?  I agree that it's *likely* that this team isn't going to win based upon its play recently.  However, the 1969 team was in the exact same predicament.  48 wins, 4th in the East, finished the season by going 17-19 in their last 36 games.  I'm sure that back then, fans were saying how unrealistic the optimists were, too, and yet they won.

I just think it's very presumptuous to suggest that the optimists are faking it.  Some people really do believe "It's not over until it's over", and you'd think that in this town -- with the 1969 Celts and 2003 Red Sox as shining examples -- that people wouldn't be quite so quick to judge the optimism of others.

If people want to give up on the team, it's understandable.  If people want to be stubbornly optimistic, that's all good, too.

Tottally agree with Hobbs and others here. How can you call optimism fake when we don't know what the future will look like? I can't predict what our playoff series will look like?How could I possibly know when to "turn off" my optimism?

Furthermore, it is very inacurate to assume that reality is no championship. The fact is, none of us can predict the future.


In fact let's flip this. When will reality overcome pessimism? Will you stop being pessimistic when Ray is accepting the Finals MVP honors or when KG is holding up two fingers in the air while clutching the trophy? Or does your pessimism fade after we win our first round series? How far down the path of darkside have you traveled?

[FallGuy]

I disagree.
As you get older, it is harder to recover from injuries.
As you get older those legs get tired in the second half of games.
As you get older, you realize that you have to save something for the playoffs or else you'll be gassed like Pierce last year.
As you get older, you play the game more gingerly in order to avoid the injuries that are so hard to recover from.

As you get older, you don't get younger on the road.  Every problem you just listed should be as bad or worse during road trips, yet Boston joins the 76ers as the only teams IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE to have more losses at home than on the road.  Boston has a better road record than the frickin' Lakers!

IT'S NOT AGE

Mike

The home-road record aside, this team is older and as a result their skills are declining. It's true with KG and with PP, the two best players on our title team. You can deny it all you want, but age is taking its toll on those two players. If it hadn't, if they were the players they were in 08 - we'd have a better record in 2010. That anyone denies what seems patently obvious to me remains a mystery.

[FallGuy]

Speaking as a person who's usually labelled very optimistic by nature, I don't think there's any particular value in being optimistic in life, in terms of actual results. I know few will agree.

[barefacedmonk]

In fact let's flip this. When will reality overcome pessimism? Will you stop being pessimistic when Ray is accepting the Finals MVP honors or when KG is holding up two fingers in the air while clutching the trophy? Or does your pessimism fade after we win our first round series? How far down the path of darkside have you traveled?

Well said.....very well said. TP.

Optimism is not just an "everything is wonderful" attitude. It's actually a mental style of how one chooses to respond to life...its a state of mind. Its the little things you say to yourself when you are in a tough situation.....optimism does not prevent bad things from happening but it does give us the opportunity to cherish and enjoy the postive results/good things for a longer period of time....and empowers us to deal with the sucky parts of life in a positive manner. You can't fake optimism....sooner or later you'll get tired of playing the "fake optimist" and return to your real state of mind.

[fairweatherfan]

Speaking as a person who's usually labelled very optimistic by nature, I don't think there's any particular value in being optimistic in life, in terms of actual results. I know few will agree.

I see your point, but since in this case optimists and pessimists will wind up watching the exact same outcomes, I think optimism leads to a more satisfying experience as a fan, with no impact on what actually happens on the court.  So, better results in that sense. 

It hasn't made sense to me to be pessimistic about sports since I was a teenager, because I realized things work out the same either way, and all I can control is if I'm happy and hopeful or angry and miserable while I watch it play out.