Today's Game: Less Than a Triumph

[Rondo_is_better]

Hey Guys,

I was at the game today... am I the only who's not so happy with this game?

The cavs were barely trying for the first three quarters. Mike Brown recognized that and made the first good coaching move of his career -- getting thrown out. That barrage of technicals got the blood of the cavs (read: Lebron) pumping. They (read: Lebron) really woke up after the team-wide dance routine preceding Lebron's temper tantrum (did anyone else see that? lol at the flipping arms and stomping feet). We were up 20 when the Cavs kicked it in gear. After that, we didn't make a  shot for 9 minutes. It was pathetic. Really horrible. Every possession Lebron would score and we would try to run the shot clock down and score with a Pierce/KG ISO. Atrocious offense and defense until the very end when we barely pulled the game out -- mostly thanks to LeQueen's ineptitude at the free throw line. What a little whiner. He never comes up big. Never. Anyway, blowing a 20 point lead and then barely pulling it out with some clutch play in the last 3 1/2 minutes isn't my ideal way of achieving victory. I'm kind of upset at how badly we played in the 4th quarter. Is anyone else?

I know this isn't the main part of your post, but I have to disagree when you say LBJ never comes up big. Apart from the fact that he has hit quite a few game-winners in his career anyway, how can you say he has not been clutch when he scored 20 points in the 4th quarter?!. CLE wouldn't have a chance to win if LBJ hadn't come up big. I hate when people hate on somebody for messing up 1 thing when it was through their hardwork that situation came up.

Coming up big is hitting that one shot, or making that pair of freethrows, neither one of which he did today, nor does he ever do. He's had two game-winning shots. Only one of them mattered -- that was in Orlando during the playoffs last year. Bringing your team back to life and coming up big are different. Bringing your team back is 95% of the work, coming up big is that last 5%. Lebron routinely fails to get that last 5%.

According to this stats engine:

- Lebron is 38th in clutch shooting percentage (clutch: last 5 mins, OT)
- 39th in 3pt FG%
-1st in free throw attempts 
- 15th in assisted baskets -- baskets his teammates help him get.
- 14th in clutch assists
- He is 149th in turnovers! out of 159 players listed! A top 10 worst offender.

That doesn't sound like a great clutch player to me. He does have redeeming statistics but the ones I laid out make him supremely average in the clutch.

http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT4.HTM

[jdpapa3]

^ I gotta disagree with that as well. He's had some ridiculous performances in big games in the playoffs. That game 7 duel vs Pierce was one of the scariest performances I have ever witnessed as a fan.

And his stats in crunch time are just amazing. He has 66 pts of production per 48 minutes of clutch time, which is 16 pts higher than the next closest, Kobe. And he shoots 49% in that time period. Just a scary player to see on the other side of the court.

[jdpapa3]

According to this stats engine:

- Lebron is 38th in clutch shooting percentage (clutch: last 5 mins, OT)
- 39th in 3pt FG%
-1st in free throw attempts 
- 15th in assisted baskets -- baskets his teammates help him get.
- 14th in clutch assists
- He is 149th in turnovers! out of 159 players listed! A top 10 worst offender.

That doesn't sound like a great clutch player to me. He does have redeeming statistics but the ones I laid out make him supremely average in the clutch.

http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT4.HTM

Those rankings you are using don't tell anything. The people ahead of him in fg% are people like jared jeffries and Nene who literally never take fg's in crunch time unless they are dunks. Just as an example, Perk is above him and we know how often Perk hits tough fadeaways on isolation plays in the clutch. 

I enjoy hating on Lebron just as much as anyone, but it seems as if some start resorting to rehashed arguments against him that don't hold any weight.

[Bahku]

Every win doesn't have to be a "triumph" ... but beating the Cavs at any time is a great thing. Yes, they are still having the second-half let-down problem, but the difference tonight was that they dug in and held on to win. The "fire" was back in KG's and Paul's eyes again tonight, and that's one of the most positive signs I've seen in a long time. We beat the team with the best record in the NBA, and a win is a win ... I choose to focus on the positives in this one, and there were plenty! (One of my favorites being when LBJ threw a hissy-fit after a foul ... sweet stuff indeed!)

[PosImpos]

- It should have been over after Ray's three

- yet another brain vapor lock from Tony Allen

- this time they managed to figure out a way to win.

agreed on all three of these points........but especially the comment about tony allen's numbnuts special.

that guy must have the lowest basketball IQ in the league, hands down. maybe the lowest IQ period for all i know. what's amazing about him has been his ability to hang around the league this long - he has the look of a career CBA player from the past.

if you're talking about that rebound he got that was wrongly called a goaltend...then you're wrong.  the ball hit the near rim and was bouncing away from the basket when he grabbed it.  should  not have been a goaltend. 

i'm glad tony was active going for a rebound...a characteristic not many of the celtics have shown on a consistent basis this season

[LB3533]

I think, pulling out a win after the collapse is something new for the Celtics so that's a positive at least.

[Drucci]

Of course the collapse was disappointing but we managed to stay focused in the last minutes and execute to get the win so I guess it's a progress.

And I don't buy the "The Cavs were bored, this game didn't matter for them" argument. I didn't hear last Easter when they blew us out by 30 points in Cleveland while they had pretty much the same record and HCA secured... another excuse for the ESPN lovefest of the Cavs.

[MMacOH]

Nice job by the Celtics to hold on and win.  I find it kind of humorous that the guy everyone wanted to run out of town at the trade deadline carried the team.

I think Garnett's trash talking of Lebron was humorous.  How about stopping him on a drive first huh?

Of course Lebron's talking was just foolish as well, bit I enjoyed the heated play.

Cavs really missed Varejao this game.  He tends to give the Celtics fits and can shut down KG.  Hickson isn't quite there yet.

[celticinorlando]

Of course the collapse was disappointing but we managed to stay focused in the last minutes and execute to get the win so I guess it's a progress.

And I don't buy the "The Cavs were bored, this game didn't matter for them" argument. I didn't hear last Easter when they blew us out by 30 points in Cleveland while they had pretty much the same record and HCA secured... another excuse for the ESPN lovefest of the Cavs.

agree...when the cavs and lakers win...it is huge...when those 2 teams happen to lose...they are bored and the game is meaningless. bottomline is the cavs still have to get through boston to win a title. they might just do that. but it isnt going to be an easy thing for the cavs to do

[MMacOH]

Of course the collapse was disappointing but we managed to stay focused in the last minutes and execute to get the win so I guess it's a progress.

And I don't buy the "The Cavs were bored, this game didn't matter for them" argument. I didn't hear last Easter when they blew us out by 30 points in Cleveland while they had pretty much the same record and HCA secured... another excuse for the ESPN lovefest of the Cavs.

agree...when the cavs and lakers win...it is huge...when those 2 teams happen to lose...they are bored and the game is meaningless. bottomline is the cavs still have to get through boston to win a title. they might just do that. but it isnt going to be an easy thing for the cavs to do

The Cavs have spent the last month coasting through the first 3 quarters of games and then turning it on in the 4th.  They are preparing for the playoffs.  The games aren't meaningless to them, they wanted to win yesterday, they are also just conserving ebenrgy for the playoffs.

[celticinorlando]

Of course the collapse was disappointing but we managed to stay focused in the last minutes and execute to get the win so I guess it's a progress.

And I don't buy the "The Cavs were bored, this game didn't matter for them" argument. I didn't hear last Easter when they blew us out by 30 points in Cleveland while they had pretty much the same record and HCA secured... another excuse for the ESPN lovefest of the Cavs.

agree...when the cavs and lakers win...it is huge...when those 2 teams happen to lose...they are bored and the game is meaningless. bottomline is the cavs still have to get through boston to win a title. they might just do that. but it isnt going to be an easy thing for the cavs to do

The Cavs have spent the last month coasting through the first 3 quarters of games and then turning it on in the 4th.  They are preparing for the playoffs.  The games aren't meaningless to them, they wanted to win yesterday, they are also just conserving ebenrgy for the playoffs.

and that is fine. but according to the ABC guys (berry, wilbon)....the cavs didn't care about the game at all. my argument is that they did....

[BballTim]

Of course the collapse was disappointing but we managed to stay focused in the last minutes and execute to get the win so I guess it's a progress.

And I don't buy the "The Cavs were bored, this game didn't matter for them" argument. I didn't hear last Easter when they blew us out by 30 points in Cleveland while they had pretty much the same record and HCA secured... another excuse for the ESPN lovefest of the Cavs.

agree...when the cavs and lakers win...it is huge...when those 2 teams happen to lose...they are bored and the game is meaningless. bottomline is the cavs still have to get through boston to win a title. they might just do that. but it isnt going to be an easy thing for the cavs to do

The Cavs have spent the last month coasting through the first 3 quarters of games and then turning it on in the 4th.  They are preparing for the playoffs.  The games aren't meaningless to them, they wanted to win yesterday, they are also just conserving ebenrgy for the playoffs.

  Is that what happened last year? They ran out of energy?

[celticinorlando]

until the cavs show me different come playoff time...i am afraid it will be LBJ and 4 guys standing around watching him

[MMacOH]

Of course the collapse was disappointing but we managed to stay focused in the last minutes and execute to get the win so I guess it's a progress.

And I don't buy the "The Cavs were bored, this game didn't matter for them" argument. I didn't hear last Easter when they blew us out by 30 points in Cleveland while they had pretty much the same record and HCA secured... another excuse for the ESPN lovefest of the Cavs.

agree...when the cavs and lakers win...it is huge...when those 2 teams happen to lose...they are bored and the game is meaningless. bottomline is the cavs still have to get through boston to win a title. they might just do that. but it isnt going to be an easy thing for the cavs to do

The Cavs have spent the last month coasting through the first 3 quarters of games and then turning it on in the 4th.  They are preparing for the playoffs.  The games aren't meaningless to them, they wanted to win yesterday, they are also just conserving ebenrgy for the playoffs.

  Is that what happened last year? They ran out of energy?

Sure...is that what happened to the Celtics as well?  Give me a break.  That was a ridiculous comment.

As for the announcers, they stink.  Watching the highlights of the game at the half of the Spurs game I realized that if Lebron didn't play in Cleveland I would despise him and it's not his fault.  Every highlight was of Lebron outside of one 3 by Ray Allen.  Ridiculous highlights to run when Boston won the game

[fairweatherfan]

Of course the collapse was disappointing but we managed to stay focused in the last minutes and execute to get the win so I guess it's a progress.

And I don't buy the "The Cavs were bored, this game didn't matter for them" argument. I didn't hear last Easter when they blew us out by 30 points in Cleveland while they had pretty much the same record and HCA secured... another excuse for the ESPN lovefest of the Cavs.

agree...when the cavs and lakers win...it is huge...when those 2 teams happen to lose...they are bored and the game is meaningless. bottomline is the cavs still have to get through boston to win a title. they might just do that. but it isnt going to be an easy thing for the cavs to do

The Cavs have spent the last month coasting through the first 3 quarters of games and then turning it on in the 4th.  They are preparing for the playoffs.  The games aren't meaningless to them, they wanted to win yesterday, they are also just conserving ebenrgy for the playoffs.

  Is that what happened last year? They ran out of energy?

Sure...is that what happened to the Celtics as well?  Give me a break.  That was a ridiculous comment.

As for the announcers, they stink.  Watching the highlights of the game at the half of the Spurs game I realized that if Lebron didn't play in Cleveland I would despise him and it's not his fault.  Every highlight was of Lebron outside of one 3 by Ray Allen.  Ridiculous highlights to run when Boston won the game

Last year I think Boston ran out of big men more than we ran out of energy.  This year might be a different story though.

I agree on the LeBron highlights - it's frustrating because even when he loses he gets all the attention.  He is a great player who makes lots of spectacular plays, but the game should ultimately be defined by who won it and how. 

And in this case, he didn't even have a particularly great game, he had 3 mediocre (by his lofty standards) quarters and an absolutely otherworldy 4th, with a couple of glaring exceptions at the end.