Why Didn't the C's (Have someone lay out Ginobli?)

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I think the real question is "why didn't the C's work harder to protect the rim?", and I would include rebounding the defensive glass in that, too.

[liam]

We don't have a "Goon" this year. we had Posey and PJ in 08. Last year we didn't have a "Goon" either and didn't make it past the Magic ( Rondo was the closest thing to a "Goon" we had in the Bulls series but he didn't continue that in the Magic series.He rattled the Bulls with his hard fouls.)We need someone who puts a little fear into people driving to the hoop or even just bringing the ball up. I think SW would make a good "Goon" since he plays so little, just send him in once in a while to take a whack at someone. Like they do in Hockey. I think NATE might be the toughest guy on our team. Perk would make a wonderful "Goon" but the Refs call a flagrant on him if he looks at anyone. We are going to need to get a lot more physical with teams. That's our advantage. we seem timid right now. We need a Mchale clothesline to fire this team up. Rondo's hard foul on B Miller did that last year in that Bulls series and I think that was the turning point in that series. we won a game we might not have and served notice. It's a fine line. KG put that hard pick on ZaZA in 08. that kind of thing serves notice. Sheed needs to make those swipes at the ball he gives when people are going to the hoop a lot harder, since he's not going to take the charge.The new song at the beginning of the game needs to be "Let's get Physical!"

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We don't have a "Goon" this year. we had Posey and PJ in 08. Last year we didn't have a "Goon" either and didn't make it past the Magic ( Rondo was the closest thing to a "Goon" we had in the Bulls series but he didn't continue that in the Magic series.He rattled the Bulls with his hard fouls.)We need someone who puts a little fear into people driving to the hoop or even just bringing the ball up. I think SW would make a good "Goon" since he plays so little, just send him in once in a while to take a whack at someone. Like they do in Hockey. I think NATE might be the toughest guy on our team. Perk would make a wonderful "Goon" but the Refs call a flagrant on him if he looks at anyone. We are going to need to get a lot more physical with teams. That's our advantage. we seem timid right now. We need a Mchale clothesline to fire this team up. Rondo's hard foul on B Miller did that last year in that Bulls series and I think that was the turning point in that series. we won a game we might not have and served notice. It's a fine line. KG put that hard pick on ZaZA in 08. that kind of thing serves notice. Sheed needs to make those swipes at the ball he gives when people are going to the hoop a lot harder, since he's not going to take the charge.The new song at the beginning of the game needs to be "Let's get Physical!"

We need a "Bring Back Danny Fortson" thread!!!

[barefacedmonk]

I think Doc played the role of an enforcer really well...maybe he can teach someone on the team since we clearly lack one this season...I'd go with Shelden.

[thirstyboots18]

I don't want anyone hurt, but I like the old physical style of play.  The problem is, if we have an enforcer we may lose two players...the enforcer and Sheed (who gets treated like an enforcer by the refs).  Maybe we should just let Sheed earn his reputation...put his money where his mouth is, so to speak.

[looseball]

I hate to see big guys trying to draw a charge from a smaller guy.  They rarely get the call, and it encourages more guys to take it to the hoop.
Bigger guys are supposed to stuff the smaller guys or commit a hard foul trying.  That's how you protect the paint.

[Chris]

The NBA isn't played that way anymore.  You can't simply retaliate.  The problem is that the C's did not play with the intensity and physicality they have played with for much of the last couple of weeks last night.  They got pushed around, because the Spurs wanted it more.  All and all, it was an embarrasing performance, not because they didn't put Manu in the hospital, but because they didn't, you know, stop him from getting anywhere he wanted with the ball.

[Chris]

I hate to see big guys trying to draw a charge from a smaller guy.  They rarely get the call, and it encourages more guys to take it to the hoop.
Bigger guys are supposed to stuff the smaller guys or commit a hard foul trying.  That's how you protect the paint.

I agree with the first half of your statement, however, I think if the big guy has to stuff the little guy, or foul him, it is because the defense broke down in the first place.

What made the C's defense so good 2 years ago is that KG and Perk beat the little guys to the spot so easily, because they were always in correct position, that instead of having to take the charge, the ballhandler wouldn't have anyplace to go to even attempt to get past them.  Now THAT is what good basketball is.  A block, or taking a charge gets everyone excited, but if you can close down the lane before they even get to it, that is what wins championships.

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, it did look clean from where I saw it.

My oldest son and I had our collective hearts stop for a moment, though..no one likes to see KG laid out like that, especially with his injury status.

Ginobili is a talented player..one of the best in the NBA. The man has played in at least Two All-Star games, I think...he has international experience under his belt with his Argentinan Team.

Most of his Argentinan Teammates play in the NBA - Luis Scola being one of them if I am not mistaken.

I think that I have sometimes forgotten that he is That Good, with him being injured a lot the last yr or two.

His production is often quieted by the fact that he comes off of the bench most of the time.

Right now, we are all witnessing the Real Ginobili...a Starter, getting consistent minutes..trying to help his team one last time make a Deep Playoff push.

I just hope that he (and the remaining Spurs) are ready for the playoffs. If they draw LA, it might get ugly.

As far as one of our players laying him out - well, we seem to be cutting back on the Enforcer business here lately. Sheed hasn't rcvd many techs lately. Perk letting Varejao push him around.

The thing here is "Just because you can squash someone, doesn't mean you do it."

Maybe some of it is being influenced by the attention of the Refs? I don't know.

We could've used Perk last night. Get well, Big Man.

[liam]

The NBA isn't played that way anymore.  You can't simply retaliate.  The problem is that the C's did not play with the intensity and physicality they have played with for much of the last couple of weeks last night.  They got pushed around, because the Spurs wanted it more.  All and all, it was an embarrasing performance, not because they didn't put Manu in the hospital, but because they didn't, you know, stop him from getting anywhere he wanted with the ball.

It's not about really hurting anyone it's about making them over think what they are doing and what you may do. In 2008 people feared the Celtics. they feared them not just because of physical play but because we could score constantly and we gave hard fouls and we gave as good as we got. we had some guys on the team no one wanted to mess with in PJ Brown, KG, and Posey. KG has been hurt and is still getting himself back. He can't really bring the physicality he brought in 2008. I think NATe and Rondo can be very physical and PP when Healthy is very physical. Baby is great when his head's in the game.  My main point is our team's identity is not as clear as it was in 2008. Hopefully everyone has a clear role and is in team mode by the time the playoffs start.

[moiso]

Just about every championship team has a tough guy under the rim.  It doesn't have to be a goon or a thug, just a physical presence.  Duncan was this type of presence in his championship years.  He fought for every rebound and was always in the way of opposing players getting to the rim.

[nickagneta]

The NBA isn't played that way anymore.  You can't simply retaliate.  The problem is that the C's did not play with the intensity and physicality they have played with for much of the last couple of weeks last night.  They got pushed around, because the Spurs wanted it more.  All and all, it was an embarrasing performance, not because they didn't put Manu in the hospital, but because they didn't, you know, stop him from getting anywhere he wanted with the ball.

It's not about really hurting anyone it's about making them over think what they are doing and what you may do. In 2008 people feared the Celtics. they feared them not just because of physical play but because we could score constantly and we gave hard fouls and we gave as good as we got. we had some guys on the team no one wanted to mess with in PJ Brown, KG, and Posey. KG has been hurt and is still getting himself back. He can't really bring the physicality he brought in 2008. I think NATe and Rondo can be very physical and PP when Healthy is very physical. Baby is great when his head's in the game.  My main point is our team's identity is not as clear as it was in 2008. Hopefully everyone has a clear role and is in team mode by the time the playoffs start.

I think the whole "feared" thing is way overplayed when dealing in pro sports. These guys are pros. They don't "fear" anyone.

[guava_wrench]

Have someone lay out Ginobli???  It seemed as if after he put that foul on KG that landed KG on the floor, the whole team seemd to tuck into a shell.  The Spurs absolutely set the tone with that, and it seemed very unlike us to not retaliate, and I would have loved to have seen it.  I'm sure it would have made Ginobli think twice about going to the rim so much. 

edit: fixed subject - Chris

Why would you knock some out for playing good defense? Retaliate by playing good defense. There was no cheap shot on that play, even if someone believes there was a foul.

[gar]

Don't forget Leon. Look at BBD's numbers. Not much there last night. While Shelden may not play with the same Fire as Leon, I like his play. I was yelling at the TV for someone to put Blair on his butt or at least make him work a little bit. You have to protect the paint and clean up on the defensive boards. The number offensive rebounds and the 10 rebound differential were very disturbing.

[liam]

The NBA isn't played that way anymore.  You can't simply retaliate.  The problem is that the C's did not play with the intensity and physicality they have played with for much of the last couple of weeks last night.  They got pushed around, because the Spurs wanted it more.  All and all, it was an embarrasing performance, not because they didn't put Manu in the hospital, but because they didn't, you know, stop him from getting anywhere he wanted with the ball.

It's not about really hurting anyone it's about making them over think what they are doing and what you may do. In 2008 people feared the Celtics. they feared them not just because of physical play but because we could score constantly and we gave hard fouls and we gave as good as we got. we had some guys on the team no one wanted to mess with in PJ Brown, KG, and Posey. KG has been hurt and is still getting himself back. He can't really bring the physicality he brought in 2008. I think NATe and Rondo can be very physical and PP when Healthy is very physical. Baby is great when his head's in the game.  My main point is our team's identity is not as clear as it was in 2008. Hopefully everyone has a clear role and is in team mode by the time the playoffs start.

I think the whole "feared" thing is way overplayed when dealing in pro sports. These guys are pros. They don't "fear" anyone.

The Lakers just quit in Game 6 of the playoffs. They knew they couldn't win. If not fear, call it intimidation. Whatever you want to call it. In 2008 teams just stopped playing because they knew they could not win. This year teams know no matter how far behind they are there will be a chance to catch up. I blame injuries, uneven play, and at home, the Garden Crowd. I have never see the Garden this quite in a playoff year. Even in years that we stunk the crowds were louder.