Author Topic: Why Sheed  (Read 4297 times)

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Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2010, 04:41:29 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

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Danny screwed up on conceding that third year. A two year deal was bad enough.
Yeah, he avoided the mistake with Posey but not with Sheed.

Losing in the second round versus winning a title will change how hard a stance a GM is willing to take.

Nice extrapolation.  I thought Posey wanted 4 years and him and his 7 pts and 4 rbs had little do with any 2nd round exit. 
Huh? I don't think you understand my meaning.

My point was that in a glow of a championship Ainge was able to resist the temptation to overpay a big FA name in the offseason. After a less successful 2008-2009 campaign he was under greater pressure to make a move and did make the mistake over paying.

No I understood.  I just don't see the coorelation.  Danny more than likely saw the KG injury as GIANT red flag and assumed he needed a competent backup for KG.  Posey was a 7/4 guy that wanted 4 years and didn't deserve it.  I really wasn't for either signing but, even less for Posey.  Which in hindsight was clearly the right move.
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Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2010, 05:28:28 PM »

Offline liam

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Sheed has played all year with no injuries and I'm betting he'll let it all hang out come playoff time. The three ball has not been there for him but it was one of the reasons we said we brought him in. If we had said from the get go that we wanted him down on the block things might be different. Doc plays his big men high and wants Sheed to take that open three. He hasn't made a lot of them but I think he was holding down the fort for the bench all year and now they are starting to come around. I think Sheed plays better with better players around him. I'll judge the season as a whole and Sheed's season at the end of the year. If we win it all: Sheed was a great move.

Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2010, 05:41:15 PM »

Offline TitleMaster

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Sheed's a big part of Operation Fo' Fo' Fo' with Pierce in the frontline.

In this setup, KG will be a point power forward, in the sense that he'll be serving two purposes... a scoring decoy, his first task is to detect a perimeter guy coming off a screen (see Ray, Nate) or PP/Sheed in the paint, and finally, to take the mid-range shot himself but only when he's wide open.

Clearly, for this move, Nate dribbles over half court but then, KG initiates the ball movement for the primary play.

The primary play here is Sheed's catch, off the bounce pass in the post from KG, a few shake and bake moves, and dropping pts over his defenders.

The 2nd play is the high pass to the perimeter guy for a outside shot.

The next play is the olde pick 'n roll with Pierce but with the idea here is that Pierce sends the ball back to Garnett to re-initiate the above two plays.

For the above to work, opponents will overestimate PP's and KG's desire to take the final shot and hence, will fall for one of the decoy plays.

Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2010, 05:50:39 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Danny screwed up on conceding that third year. A two year deal was bad enough.
Yeah, he avoided the mistake with Posey but not with Sheed.

Losing in the second round versus winning a title will change how hard a stance a GM is willing to take.

Nice extrapolation.  I thought Posey wanted 4 years and him and his 7 pts and 4 rbs had little do with any 2nd round exit. 
Huh? I don't think you understand my meaning.

My point was that in a glow of a championship Ainge was able to resist the temptation to overpay a big FA name in the offseason. After a less successful 2008-2009 campaign he was under greater pressure to make a move and did make the mistake over paying.

No I understood.  I just don't see the coorelation.  Danny more than likely saw the KG injury as GIANT red flag and assumed he needed a competent backup for KG.  Posey was a 7/4 guy that wanted 4 years and didn't deserve it.  I really wasn't for either signing but, even less for Posey.  Which in hindsight was clearly the right move.
Okay, I mistook your sarcasm for confusion. Its fun to say 7/4 guy a lot, Rasheed was only a 12/7 guy. Not only that but their per/36 numbers are 11/6 for Posey and 13/8 for Sheed. Neither was a hugely productive player in raw number terms. Also Posey had a TS% of .587 and Sheed's was only .520. Neither guy had numbers on his side.

I think not winning and KG's injury clearly gave Danny a different approach to FA this last offseason.

Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2010, 05:55:17 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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I am thinking that fans didn't get the memo.  Apparently they think we can sign players for whatever WE want.  The bottom line is that it took that contract to sign Sheed. It is fairly common now to overpay to sign the guy you want.

Some now think it was a mistake but I do not agree.  DA was absolutely correct in his idea that we needed size.  We simply could not complete with the top teams (especially the lakers) without a legitimate big with size.  No number of undersized PF would have changed that.

Bottom line is that if we don't win, it isn't because we signed Sheed.  It is because there wasn't another big man available that could have helped us more than Sheed.

Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2010, 06:10:32 PM »

Offline barefacedmonk

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I am thinking that fans didn't get the memo.  Apparently they think we can sign players for whatever WE want.  The bottom line is that it took that contract to sign Sheed. It is fairly common now to overpay to sign the guy you want.

Some now think it was a mistake but I do not agree.  DA was absolutely correct in his idea that we needed size.  We simply could not complete with the top teams (especially the lakers) without a legitimate big with size.  No number of undersized PF would have changed that.

Bottom line is that if we don't win, it isn't because we signed Sheed.  It is because there wasn't another big man available that could have helped us more than Sheed.

Right on the money! Agree 100%...even though Sheed has been a big disappointment so far. I know he is old by NBA standards and age has been a cause in his declining performance...but the least he can do is get in shape...show everyone that he atleast cares and is serious. TP for you.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 06:23:21 PM by barefacedmonk »
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Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2010, 06:28:51 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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i can see your point about "why 3 years?"

but i think danny believed that without a considerable upgrade off the bench, especially a big man, the celtics were going no where this year.

at the time, if i recall correctly, sheed was considered to be THE best big man out there. i dont begrudge danny signing him and still consider it a great move at the time. he gambled big, which i respect. whether it pays off is not determined by the regular season, but by the playoffs.

put me in the camp of folks who thinks sheed will "turn it on" for the playoffs and i expect him to play physical, hard basketball under the basket.

next, even with the 3 year signing, i dont mind. let's all face it.  there is a very strong possibility that in three years this team is going to be brutally bad. bad as in 2006ish bad. whether wallace is a celtic or not will not make a difference. ainge will be in full rebuild mode and perhaps sheed will net him some draft pick, or money, or something from a team hoping to add a vet to win it all. but i doubt even that.

i am happy the celtics have wallace now. next year, he may still contribute. in two years, it wont matter.
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Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2010, 07:25:08 PM »

Offline Bankshot

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C'mon now, most people loved the Sheed signing.  Remember the experts saying whoever got Sheed would have the advantage? And we couldn't have signed Sheed unless Danny gave him 3 years.
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Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2010, 07:42:58 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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2 months ago there were many big question marks on this team involving key players.  Among those questions were:

1) Will Ray Allen start shooting like Ray Allen again?
2) Will Paul Pierce get healthy in time?
3) Has KG declined or can he come back to be somewhere near his 2008 self?
4) Is Rasheed Wallace holding back and does he have another gear that he can turn on in the playoffs?

Amazingly, 3 of these 4 questions have been answered in the affirmative.  KG may not ever be 100% of 2008, but 90% is sounding right.  

Strangely, the one question of the 4 that I had felt most positive about was Rasheed.  I continue to be confident that his intensity will rise and his intelligence on the court will make a difference for the C's in the playoffs.  I agree with those who feel it's premature to judge Rasheed's season.  After the playoffs we'll know for sure.  I'll gladly forgive him his regular season trespasses if he picks it up in the playoffs.

Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2010, 07:56:22 PM »

Offline Jon

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Because at the end of the day, a 2 year contract as opposed to a 3 year contract wouldn't have mattered much anyways, we won't be players in free-agency until those 3 years are up, if players at all during that season.

Yup. And Sheed was the best MLE big option available.

more thoughts:

1. I still think Sheed's more dangerous than McDyess.
2. Sheed's defense and offense are at least as good as PJ Brown.
3. When the playoffs roll around, I guarantee Sheed will go to the post more. He's a smart dude, and he's saving that grind for the games that count.
4. I'd rather have Sheed over Posey.
5. Last spring, Scal was the first big off the bench. Let me repeat: Scal was the first big off the bench. The C's needed to get a solid big man, even if it meant overpaying him for 1 extra year.


I agree.  People forget that P.J. Brown was hardly impressive until the playoffs.  Granted, he didn't have a full year under his belt like Sheed; however, I think it's a little silly to start whining about a three year deal less than a full season in.  For all we know, he dominates the playoffs, we win #18, and we're wondering how we got so lucky he came here. 

I don't blame people being somewhat frustrated with him; however, I hate these premature judgments. 

Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2010, 08:46:50 PM »

Offline vinnie

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I pretty much have stopped commenting on Sheed because he has become a total non-factor for the Celtics. Even tonight, with the team steamrolling a bad Sacto team, he looks like crap for the most part.

Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2010, 10:09:43 PM »

Offline hardlyyardley

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I am in Florida, so the only game I saw was watching my NCAA pool pick (Ohio St) get eliminated, but I did see the stats and why would expect more than one rebound from your starting center?

Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2010, 10:56:02 PM »

Offline mmbaby

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I still like Sheed very much. He played good tonight. I think it may be a mental thing with him. All the fans were expecting so much from him, and when he didn't do as expected, he became the team scapegoat. Hopefully Sunday, as he gets more comfortable in his starter roll, he will feel his condidence.
I'm still glad we have him for a lot of reasons. He sure keeps it interesting out there!  :)

Re: Why Sheed
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2010, 11:32:02 PM »

Offline vinnie

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Sheed played well tonight? He was the starting center, had 1 rebound in 24 minutes, scored six points and was 2-6 from the field, and fouled out of the game. I will give him credit on the defensive end with 3 blocks.