Is Marquis Daniels the odd man out when the rotation shortens?

[Who]

I wouldn't read too much into Finley's possible role just yet.

(1) Finley has played above himself early on and will fall back to earth as time progress

(2) Doc wants to see what he has in Finley before making any decisions so Finley will get additional playing time at this point in the season to show Doc what he can do. If Finley continues to do well, then he'll hang onto those minutes but that is a large assumption. Finley still hasn't earned those minutes. He hasn't solidified that role.

On another note, the only way I see Finley taking Marquis' minutes is if Daniels bottoms out over the remainder of the season. It will be about Daniels losing his minutes rather than Finley winning them.

[Donoghus]

I wouldn't read too much into Finley's possible role just yet.

(1) Finley has played above himself early on and will fall back to earth as time progress

(2) Doc wants to see what he has in Finley before making any decisions so Finley will get additional playing time at this point in the season to show Doc what he can do. If Finley continues to do well, then he'll hang onto those minutes but that is a large assumption. Finley still hasn't earned those minutes. He hasn't solidified that role.

On another note, the only way I see Finley taking Marquis' minutes is if Daniels bottoms out over the remainder of the season. It will be about Daniels losing his minutes rather than Finley winning them.

Yeah, I think this is pretty much the mindset to take right now.

I don't think there are any guarantees that Finley will be getting extended minutes once the playoffs roll around.  It could happen but I think its too early to assume that he'll be part of the standard rotation minutes.

[wdleehi]

Of the 5 main reserves, I see Finley and Davis taking the biggest minutes hits in the playoffs during close games. 


Finley will be used when they need some extra shooting.


Davis will be used when their is a foul or injury issue.

[snively]

I wouldn't read too much into Finley's possible role just yet.

(1) Finley has played above himself early on and will fall back to earth as time progress

(2) Doc wants to see what he has in Finley before making any decisions so Finley will get additional playing time at this point in the season to show Doc what he can do. If Finley continues to do well, then he'll hang onto those minutes but that is a large assumption. Finley still hasn't earned those minutes. He hasn't solidified that role.

On another note, the only way I see Finley taking Marquis' minutes is if Daniels bottoms out over the remainder of the season. It will be about Daniels losing his minutes rather than Finley winning them.

I agree that Finley is likely to fall to earth, but I don't think Finley is just getting a trial run. I think Doc loves Finley's ability to come off screens, spot-up and dribble over a pick, to go along with his veteran poise, and those qualities have solidified his spot as the second wing off the bench in most scenarios (no more TA).  I think he'll still prefer Daniels as the 1st wing for defensive purposes.

My preferred scenario is Daniels (if he sustains his current weak performance levels) getting booted out of the rotation in favor of TA.

Daniels has been horrific since he's been playing alongside Nate on the bench.  4.5 points on 40% shooting in 20 minutes per in 11 March games with minimal contributions in other aspects of the game.  He's been one of the worst rebounders on the team since his arrival, consistently failing to box out and being too weak to pull down contested boards.  I'm not sure if he can be effective without either playing alongside great passers (Rondo/KG) or playing as the primary ball-handler in the backcourt.

If we're going to have a non-shooting, defensive wing in the rotation and depend on Nate for ball-handling, it makes so much more sense to use TA.  He's a better defender, a much better rebounder and can convert the looks Quis has been getting at similar rates.

[Jon]

Of the 5 main reserves, I see Finley and Davis taking the biggest minutes hits in the playoffs during close games. 


Finley will be used when they need some extra shooting.


Davis will be used when their is a foul or injury issue.

I agree.  And if we do stick with a 10 man rotation, I definitely see a lot of the following scenario happening:

4 minutes left in the first, Marquis comes in for Ray
2 minutes left in the first, Fin comes in for Paul
10 minutes left in the second, Ray comes in for Fin
8 minutes left in the second, Paul comes in for Marquis

Net minutes: 8 minutes for Marquis and 4 minutes for Fin. 

Ditto with Wallace and BBD.  BBD might play, but he'll be very much the 4th big. 

[snively]

Daniels with another tough night in a what has been a nightmarish March for him.  0-2, 1 foul, 1 turnover, 0 pts/boards/assists and a team worst -15 in 12 minutes of play.

The 2nd unit is a mess offensively right now.  They couldn't get into Marquis in the post when he was guarded by Terry, they're not generating any open looks for him and he's not making an impact in any of the other stat categories.

He's still trying hard on D, but I'm wondering if he's without a viable role on this team with Finley as the (for now) more dangerous scoring threat and Nate as the primary ball-handler.

[nickagneta]

Daniels with another tough night in a what has been a nightmarish March for him.  0-2, 1 foul, 1 turnover, 0 pts/boards/assists and a team worst -15 in 12 minutes of play.

The 2nd unit is a mess offensively right now.  They couldn't get into Marquis in the post when he was guarded by Terry, they're not generating any open looks for him and he's not making an impact in any of the other stat categories.

He's still trying hard on D, but I'm wondering if he's without a viable role on this team with Finley as the (for now) more dangerous scoring threat and Nate as the primary ball-handler.

Exactly my point.

If he turns things around then of course things will change. But if he doesn't, with the playoffs just 3+ weeks away, he might have to sit much like Eddie did in 2008 because his March and April were horrendous and it made Doc think it would be best to go with Cassell.

[kozlodoev]

I don't think the rotation is going to shorten. You can't play Garnett and Pierce 40 minutes on a regular basis, even in the playoffs.

[Edgar]

i am with k there
maybe for some games...maybe bbd or even sheed to give hime some heart
but over all
9 or 10 will work

[snively]

I don't think the rotation is going to shorten. You can't play Garnett and Pierce 40 minutes on a regular basis, even in the playoffs.

With the way they've been playing, can you afford to play Sheed and Daniels 40 combined minutes in the playoffs?

I think Ray and Paul will have to able to go 38 per, Rondo 40, and KG/Perk 35 apiece for the C's to have their best chance at advancing.  Based on current performance levels, I'd give Nate 8 + 4 in end of quarter (1st and 3rd) small ball line-ups with Rondo, Finley 10, Baby 16, Sheed 10 and then give the 6 minutes of wing spot duty to Daniels or TA, depending on who matches up better defensively (Daniels vs. Vince, TA vs. Jamal Crawford).

The improbability that Finley can keep up his current production means that will probably have to depend on Daniels or TA to give us productive minutes.

[wdleehi]

The more I think about it, the more I think Nate might lose out on minutes.


I could see Rondo playing close to 40 minutes a game in the playoffs with Nate playing 8.



Finley and Daniels are better defenders.  Daniels is the slashing part.  Finley is the shooting part.



And (with the exception of Cleveland when they play West or Gibson at SG) the Celtics do not have to worry about Rondo or Nate defending a SG sized G. 

[the_Bird]

I'm not sure the rotation gets shortened that much in the playoffs.  Daniels has been a solid, stabilizing presense in the second unit.  His defense has been very solid, and he doens't screw too many things up.  Nate will still have a role for his energy and when we need to get some scoring in a hurry, but I'd expect his overall minutes to go down a bit.  Finley will probably be more of a situational guy unless he really shows in these last dozen or so games that he's got more left in the tank than believed.

TA will likely be the odd man out.  Amazing to think that I'm not all that happy about that. 

Last night's probably a good example of the kind of rotation we see in the playoffs; 30-32 for KG and Perk, 36-ish up to 40 for the other starters, and 10-15 for Finley, Nate, and Quis. 

I do kinda wish we saw a little more of Sheldon, I'm not convinced one way or the other about his getting time versus Baby getting time. 

[dark_lord]

The only person I see snubbed here is Tony Allen. He's played great most of the year, but b/c Finley can shoot and Quis can do a little of everything, that leaves out TA.

Rondo - Nate
Ray - Finley
Pierce - Quis
KG - BBD
Perk - Sheed

Sheldon and Tony left for garbage time. Scal and Landry IA

exactly what i was thinking

[Redz]

Last night we saw 5 bench guys playing together effectively for a stretch.  They seem to be developing some chemistry there.  If Doc can get away with a true 2nd unit there's no need to shorten the bench.  With the exception of Rondo in the playoffs, I think less will mean more with minutes in the playoffs.  Then again Ray will probably end up out there for double duty a lot too.  Keep KG, Perk & PP's minutes down if you can.

[snively]

I'm not sure the rotation gets shortened that much in the playoffs.  Daniels has been a solid, stabilizing presense in the second unit.  His defense has been very solid, and he doens't screw too many things up...

TA will likely be the odd man out. 

I can feel myself transforming into a Marquis hater/TA apologist, but I have to continue my mantra here: Marquis at his current levels of production doesn't belong in the rotation.  Look at how bad Marquis Daniels has been in 12 March games (coinciding with the arrival of Nate Robinson and Michael Finley):
FG% .386  MPG 19.8  PPG 4.1 RPG 1.4  APG 1.0.  He's also averaging more fouls and turnovers than boards and assists.  

On the season, his per-minute averages across the board are either career worsts (points, rebounds, FTAs, steals) or worse than his career averages (fouls, assists, TO%).  His PER (9.5) is by far the worst of his career.  

TA has been pretty mediocre to poor for most of his career, but he hasn't strayed as far into Scalabrine-ville as Daniels has this season, especially recently.  I'm willing to accept a few more fouls and turnovers from TA, to get more rebounds, points, steals, energy and overall impact.

Who knows?  Maybe I'm underestimating Daniels intangibles (his unadjusted +/- is the best of the bench squad).