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Cleveland game opinions
« on: March 15, 2010, 08:54:00 PM »

Offline Meadowlark_Scal

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Okay, i might get blasted over this butttt, I think sheldon should have been in more to shut out Varajo and get those rebounds...sheed out while he was in...and TA in for a few longer shifts covering lebron to work him over, give PP a break and get his offense going, it is hard for PP 33-34 years old to cover lebron at 25......big diff there...and score points....no way...! Varajo and hickson kept us out of reach till lebron got going...that is......well, maybe no coaching strategy...?

Re: Cleveland game opinions
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2010, 09:25:36 PM »

Offline Meadowlark_Scal

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one more thing....most of kg's fouls were because of varajo also...doc cannot let a guy like that run our team......

Re: Cleveland game opinions
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2010, 10:23:40 PM »

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Shelden Williams does a very poor job of keeping opposing team's off the Celtics defensive glass.

I don't like the idea of matching him up against talented offensive rebounders.

Re: Cleveland game opinions
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2010, 12:18:31 AM »

Offline rav123

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Shelden Williams does a very poor job of keeping opposing team's off the Celtics defensive glass.

I don't like the idea of matching him up against talented offensive rebounders.

Is he not one of our better defensive rebounders though?

Re: Cleveland game opinions
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2010, 12:23:20 AM »

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Shelden Williams does a very poor job of keeping opposing team's off the Celtics defensive glass.

I don't like the idea of matching him up against talented offensive rebounders.

Is he not one of our better defensive rebounders though?
I don't think so. I think most of his good work at grabbing defensive rebounds is offset by his inability to keep opponents off the glass.

I think his offensive rebounding is his real strength on the backboards.

Re: Cleveland game opinions
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2010, 12:29:47 AM »

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Here are the team stats -- on court/off court differences -- for defensive rebounding while each of the big men are in the game:

(1) Perkins = +4.66%
(2) Garnett = +4.48%
(3) Davis = -0.90%
(4) Scalabrine = -0.55 (includes small portion of minutes at SF)
(5) Sheed = -4.09
(6) Shelden = -6.58%

These statistics aren't perfect by any measure but I do think they point in the right direction in this case.

If you watch closely when Shelden gets a shot at playing time you'll see him fail to keep his man off the glass on several occasions and it regularly costs the team some defensive rebounds.

Re: Cleveland game opinions
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2010, 09:03:31 PM »

Offline Meadowlark_Scal

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When I see sheldon in there I see the guy doing his job, and he hasn't even, to date, got as many minutes as scal, so those numbers are deceiving.....they pit guys who have a lot of time to correct things vs a guy who gets 2-5 minutes every 10th game......last game, sheldon finally got a few passes..and converted just like he should. Besides, WHO was doing the job against cleveland...tell me...?     All of those guys with better numbers were in and did nothing that we needed. This same formula has been played out all year long.....same results.....isn't the definition of insanity when you keep trying the same thing but want a different result...?

Re: Cleveland game opinions
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2010, 09:05:18 PM »

Offline Meadowlark_Scal

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I mean, it is fine with me if you don't agree, it is just my opinion, so that last post was not directed at anyone here...more like Doc....!  But i think tohse stats are not true because of playing time differences.....

Re: Cleveland game opinions
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2010, 12:25:17 AM »

Offline rav123

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Here are the team stats -- on court/off court differences -- for defensive rebounding while each of the big men are in the game:

(1) Perkins = +4.66%
(2) Garnett = +4.48%
(3) Davis = -0.90%
(4) Scalabrine = -0.55 (includes small portion of minutes at SF)
(5) Sheed = -4.09
(6) Shelden = -6.58%

These statistics aren't perfect by any measure but I do think they point in the right direction in this case.

If you watch closely when Shelden gets a shot at playing time you'll see him fail to keep his man off the glass on several occasions and it regularly costs the team some defensive rebounds.



OK cool. I thought he was brought in for rebounding. Do those stats mean that the team is rebounding badly or Shelden is rebounding badly? Because his DRB% is 21.5% (third on the team behind KG - 25.4% and Perkins - 24.7%.Sheed =18.4%, Baby =12.1%), which would suggest he is getting most of the defensive boards.

TP for the stats though.

Re: Cleveland game opinions
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2010, 01:13:48 AM »

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Here are the team stats -- on court/off court differences -- for defensive rebounding while each of the big men are in the game:

(1) Perkins = +4.66%
(2) Garnett = +4.48%
(3) Davis = -0.90%
(4) Scalabrine = -0.55 (includes small portion of minutes at SF)
(5) Sheed = -4.09
(6) Shelden = -6.58%

These statistics aren't perfect by any measure but I do think they point in the right direction in this case.

If you watch closely when Shelden gets a shot at playing time you'll see him fail to keep his man off the glass on several occasions and it regularly costs the team some defensive rebounds.



OK cool. I thought he was brought in for rebounding. Do those stats mean that the team is rebounding badly or Shelden is rebounding badly? Because his DRB% is 21.5% (third on the team behind KG - 25.4% and Perkins - 24.7%.Sheed =18.4%, Baby =12.1%), which would suggest he is getting most of the defensive boards.

TP for the stats though.
Quote
Do those stats mean that the team is rebounding badly or Shelden is rebounding badly?
It can mean either.

I think Shelden's individual rebounding numbers are misleading (rebounds per game, per minute and rebounding rate). Sorry, I mean his defensive rebounding is misleading. I think his offensive rebounding is very good. I think Shelden does a very good job at grabbing the rebounds but a very poor job of keeping his opponent off the glass which negates a lot of his value as a defensive rebounder.

I don't think the difference is as pronounced as those statistics indicate. I agree with Meadowlark_Scal that Shelden's numbers would improve if given more minutes.

However, I do think the stats point us in the right direction ... and that is that while Shelden does a good job grabbing the ball the team generally does worse on the defensive backboards while he is in the game and I believe his inability to keep his man off the glass plays a large role in that.

So while I'd expect the stats to improve I would still expect him to have a negative defensive rebounding differential.

I think Perk + Garnett + Scal + BBD all do a good-to-very good-to-excellent job at keeping opponents off the glass while Shelden + Sheed are poor-to-very poor.

I don't think so. I think most of his good work at grabbing defensive rebounds is offset by his inability to keep opponents off the glass.

I think his offensive rebounding is his real strength on the backboards.
Just to go back to what I said earlier on in the thread -- I think Shelden adds a lot of value with his offensive rebounding but not much value with his defensive rebounding.

With the reason being his failure to keep opponents off the glass.

Re: Cleveland game opinions
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2010, 12:14:12 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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BBD's rebounding numbers are misleading, too, because half the time he gets a rebound he loses the ball because he goes up for a shot inside and gets blocked or gets swarmed in the paint and can't pass out of it.
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Re: Cleveland game opinions
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2010, 01:53:00 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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BBD's rebounding numbers are misleading, too, because half the time he gets a rebound he loses the ball because he goes up for a shot inside and gets blocked or gets swarmed in the paint and can't pass out of it.

This is very true. When he gets 4 offensive rebounds after getting stuffed over and over again it should really only count as 1 rebound. I do like Baby's hustle though and I've noticed lately that when he's grabbed that offensive rebound he has been looking to kick it out more rather than go up right away. He just needs to be aware of who he is going up against. He can go straight up against some people or maybe one person, but when he is surrounded by a couple guys who are a lot taller than him it just isn't going to work