An attempt at a realistic explanation

[PLamb]

What is wrong with the Boston Celtics?

It's been a subject of great debate now for the better part of two months as on Christmas night this team stood at 23-5 and had beaten good teams or teams that would become good with wins over Cleveland, Orlando, Utah, Oklahoma City, San Antonio and Milwaukee. They had one bad loss, a loss to Indiana on the road after and exhausting nationally televised late start game here in Boston the night before and was their 11th game in 19 days. All in all, pretty understandable given the circumstances.

But Christmas came and went and so did Kevin Garnett and his seemingly rehabbed injured knee. Kevin went down. Marquis Daniels had already gone down with a thumb injury. Glen Davis came back but was ineffective and out of shape. Pierce would go down with a knee infection, then come back. Then go down with a sprained foot, then come back. Then go down with a bad thumb, then come back. And the team saw some minor other ailments and the flu hit it that caused a missed game or two here and there from others. To say that after Christmas the coaching staff had much of an idea as to who would be playing and who wouldn't on a nightly basis, is a bit of an understatement.

And the team has not been good since then. On Christmas night after beating the Magic the Celtics were 23-5. Almost three whole months and almost a half season later the Celtics now stand at 41-24. A record of 18-19 since then. For a team with this much talent and "name" players and championship pedigree, it's quite mind boggling.

But what happened? Is it just the injuries? The injuries don't explain the lack of effort this teams puts in versus what some pundits would call inferior teams. Is it boredom? That doesn't explain the lack of performance during big games against talented teams. Since Christmas the Celtics have lost to Phoenix, Atlanta three times, Cleveland twice, Orlando twice, the Lakers, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Milwaukee and Memphis. All teams with good records and/or playing well at the time. They have beaten the Lakers, Portland twice and Miami twice in that time but wins over quality opponents have been few and far between in the last three months.

So is it the coach, who's at time baffling rotations and substitutions, lack of a desire to change and lack of forcing his will on this team(very little practice time, inability to motivate the team)? Is it the players who have looked disinterested, had an inability to bounce back from injury, look to be declining and have aging games, lack leadership and have had some internal strife? Is it the front office for bringing in an oft injured player that got injured, for bringing in an old aging and lazy player that has looked old, aging and lazy, for resigning an immature, chunky, undersized center that has been immature(getting into a fight and breaking his thumb, calling fans names, worrying about a nickname), chunky and hopelessly overmatched when trying to shoot underneath, and not trading a raft of expiring contracts at the deadline to upgrade for the future? Is it the early season schedule that overworked an aging team? Is it all of the above?

Is it something else? Chemistry issues? We've seen Ray and Paul and KG have games where they hardly shot or had the ball stick in their hands too much, we've seen Rondo take a more pronounced scoring role, we've seen Perk and Davis become black holes at times, we've seen more defensive breakdowns than any of us care to discuss.Lock room issues? We've heard Rondo come out and try to address this only to get verbally castigated in public by KG for letting it out of the lock room and there have been whisperings of a young/old fraction behind closed doors. Is it that the team has stopped listening to the coach? Recent complaints about a lack of practice by Perk and a clouded complaint about wanting to practice at the expense of missing games by KG and Paul suggest it's possible. Is the team just having a massive case of seeing a bunch of players all get old all in the same year? The injuries, inconsistencies, declining stats and efforts of some, if not all of the Celtics players over 30 indicate it could be possible.

I really am not sure. Maybe all of the above in various amounts. For all of the attempts to affix blame for the performance that we have seen from this team, I don't think there is just one definable, concrete reason for the failures of the 2009-10 Boston Celtics since late December. For all of the attempts suggested to fix this team, I don't there is think one specific thing that can be done that will turn this team around to perform at a level that we are accustomed to. I think the realistic explanation about what ails this team is simply, there's a whole lot of things that ails this team and that because of this, it's just too darn difficult to figure out which are the most pressing issues.

A myriad of problems requires a spectrum of solutions.

And I'm just not sure that all the problems can be discovered and addressed before this team has to start playing game that if they lose will be a countdown to the end of their season. In January, there was lots of time. In February, there was plenty of time. Come mid March, we are running out of time.

Does that mean the ship can't be righted and that this team can't rattle of a great playoff run and dash to Banner 18? Absolutely not, it's been done before. The 1969 Celtics went 22-24 between Christmas and St Patty's Day and won it all. The 1975 Golden State Warriors went 20-21 between Christmas and St. Patty's Day and won it all. The 1978 Washington Bullets went 18-20 between Christmas and St. Patty's and won it all. But recently? Let's just say that the ability to hit the switch and turn around 11 weeks of mediocrity seems to be something that only occurred in a bygone era.

So, what to do? I wish I knew. Better yet I wish Doc Rivers, Tom Thibodeau, Clifford Ray and Armond Hill knew. I wish Danny Ainge knew. I wish Paul, Ray, Rajon, Kevin, Kendrick, Rasheed, Glen, Nate, Tony, Brian, Michael, Shelden, Marquis and Marcus knew. I just don't think they do.

I love this team no matter the record, no matter whether they win or lose, no matter whether they have a first round knock out or an epic run to a championship. I always will but there are definite problems that need addressing some that we know about, some we don't know about, I am sure. But whether they can be taken care of before real basketball starts being played in April is something only the people cashing paychecks from the Boston Celtics can truly know the answer to.

But I do know one thing, if the team can not find out all the things wrong with it before playoff basketball ensues and gets bounced early, Danny Ainge's simplest solution to fixing it might be to blow it all up and start all over. Coaches and players alike could change and they might only have themselves to blame if they are unemployed or not in Boston again next year.

[Greenbean]

TP for a nice read. I think we are all looking for explanations.

Frankly right now I am giving up looking for reasons for the mediocre basketball. I have adjusted my expectations accordingly and will now just watch the games as a fan of basketball. Ill just look for improvements and be resigned to the fact that this is not the perfect team I thought they were at the beginning of the season. Of course I still believe in them but I will not invest any more emotion into this team because they have let me down too much and sports shouldnt make me feel this way!

It's all gravy from here on out.

[clover]

What is wrong with the Boston Celtics?

It's been a subject of great debate now for the better part of two months as on Christmas night this team stood at 23-5 and had beaten good teams or teams that would become good with wins over Cleveland, Orlando, Utah, Oklahoma City, San Antonio and Milwaukee. They had one bad loss, a loss to Indiana on the road after and exhausting nationally televised late start game here in Boston the night before and was their 11th game in 19 days. All in all, pretty understandable given the circumstances.

But Christmas came and went and so did Kevin Garnett and his seemingly rehabbed injured knee. Kevin went down. Marquis Daniels had already gone down with a thumb injury. Glen Davis came back but was ineffective and out of shape. Pierce would go down with a knee infection, then come back. Then go down with a sprained foot, then come back. Then go down with a bad thumb, then come back. And the team saw some minor other ailments and the flu hit it that caused a missed game or two here and there from others. To say that after Christmas the coaching staff had much of an idea as to who would be playing and who wouldn't on a nightly basis, is a bit of an understatement.

And the team has not been good since then. On Christmas night after beating the Magic the Celtics were 23-5. Almost three whole months and almost a half season later the Celtics now stand at 41-24. A record of 18-19 since then. For a team with this much talent and "name" players and championship pedigree, it's quite mind boggling.

But what happened? Is it just the injuries? The injuries don't explain the lack of effort this teams puts in versus what some pundits would call inferior teams. Is it boredom? That doesn't explain the lack of performance during big games against talented teams. Since Christmas the Celtics have lost to Phoenix, Atlanta three times, Cleveland twice, Orlando twice, the Lakers, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Milwaukee and Memphis. All teams with good records and/or playing well at the time. They have beaten the Lakers, Portland twice and Miami twice in that time but wins over quality opponents have been few and far between in the last three months.

So is it the coach, who's at time baffling rotations and substitutions, lack of a desire to change and lack of forcing his will on this team(very little practice time, inability to motivate the team)? Is it the players who have looked disinterested, had an inability to bounce back from injury, look to be declining and have aging games, lack leadership and have had some internal strife? Is it the front office for bringing in an oft injured player that got injured, for bringing in an old aging and lazy player that has looked old, aging and lazy, for resigning an immature, chunky, undersized center that has been immature(getting into a fight and breaking his thumb, calling fans names, worrying about a nickname), chunky and hopelessly overmatched when trying to shoot underneath, and not trading a raft of expiring contracts at the deadline to upgrade for the future? Is it the early season schedule that overworked an aging team? Is it all of the above?

Is it something else? Chemistry issues? We've seen Ray and Paul and KG have games where they hardly shot or had the ball stick in their hands too much, we've seen Rondo take a more pronounced scoring role, we've seen Perk and Davis become black holes at times, we've seen more defensive breakdowns than any of us care to discuss.Lock room issues? We've heard Rondo come out and try to address this only to get verbally castigated in public by KG for letting it out of the lock room and there have been whisperings of a young/old fraction behind closed doors. Is it that the team has stopped listening to the coach? Recent complaints about a lack of practice by Perk and a clouded complaint about wanting to practice at the expense of missing games by KG and Paul suggest it's possible. Is the team just having a massive case of seeing a bunch of players all get old all in the same year? The injuries, inconsistencies, declining stats and efforts of some, if not all of the Celtics players over 30 indicate it could be possible.

I really am not sure. Maybe all of the above in various amounts. For all of the attempts to affix blame for the performance that we have seen from this team, I don't think there is just one definable, concrete reason for the failures of the 2009-10 Boston Celtics since late December. For all of the attempts suggested to fix this team, I don't there is think one specific thing that can be done that will turn this team around to perform at a level that we are accustomed to. I think the realistic explanation about what ails this team is simply, there's a whole lot of things that ails this team and that because of this, it's just too darn difficult to figure out which are the most pressing issues.

A myriad of problems requires a spectrum of solutions.

And I'm just not sure that all the problems can be discovered and addressed before this team has to start playing game that if they lose will be a countdown to the end of their season. In January, there was lots of time. In February, there was plenty of time. Come mid March, we are running out of time.

Does that mean the ship can't be righted and that this team can't rattle of a great playoff run and dash to Banner 18? Absolutely not, it's been done before. The 1969 Celtics went 22-24 between Christmas and St Patty's Day and won it all. The 1975 Golden State Warriors went 20-21 between Christmas and St. Patty's Day and won it all. The 1978 Washington Bullets went 18-20 between Christmas and St. Patty's and won it all. But recently? Let's just say that the ability to hit the switch and turn around 11 weeks of mediocrity seems to be something that only occurred in a bygone era.

So, what to do? I wish I knew. Better yet I wish Doc Rivers, Tom Thibodeau, Clifford Ray and Armond Hill knew. I wish Danny Ainge knew. I wish Paul, Ray, Rajon, Kevin, Kendrick, Rasheed, Glen, Nate, Tony, Brian, Michael, Shelden, Marquis and Marcus knew. I just don't think they do.

I love this team no matter the record, no matter whether they win or lose, no matter whether they have a first round knock out or an epic run to a championship. I always will but there are definite problems that need addressing some that we know about, some we don't know about, I am sure. But whether they can be taken care of before real basketball starts being played in April is something only the people cashing paychecks from the Boston Celtics can truly know the answer to.

But I do know one thing, if the team can not find out all the things wrong with it before playoff basketball ensues and gets bounced early, Danny Ainge's simplest solution to fixing it might be to blow it all up and start all over. Coaches and players alike could change and they might only have themselves to blame if they are unemployed or not in Boston again next year.

With the injured Captain out there as a major liability--and his apparent best backup just given away to NY and too small-g green to help this year anyway, the C's aren't going anywhere.

[PLamb]

What is wrong with the Boston Celtics?

It's been a subject of great debate now for the better part of two months as on Christmas night this team stood at 23-5 and had beaten good teams or teams that would become good with wins over Cleveland, Orlando, Utah, Oklahoma City, San Antonio and Milwaukee. They had one bad loss, a loss to Indiana on the road after and exhausting nationally televised late start game here in Boston the night before and was their 11th game in 19 days. All in all, pretty understandable given the circumstances.

But Christmas came and went and so did Kevin Garnett and his seemingly rehabbed injured knee. Kevin went down. Marquis Daniels had already gone down with a thumb injury. Glen Davis came back but was ineffective and out of shape. Pierce would go down with a knee infection, then come back. Then go down with a sprained foot, then come back. Then go down with a bad thumb, then come back. And the team saw some minor other ailments and the flu hit it that caused a missed game or two here and there from others. To say that after Christmas the coaching staff had much of an idea as to who would be playing and who wouldn't on a nightly basis, is a bit of an understatement.

And the team has not been good since then. On Christmas night after beating the Magic the Celtics were 23-5. Almost three whole months and almost a half season later the Celtics now stand at 41-24. A record of 18-19 since then. For a team with this much talent and "name" players and championship pedigree, it's quite mind boggling.

But what happened? Is it just the injuries? The injuries don't explain the lack of effort this teams puts in versus what some pundits would call inferior teams. Is it boredom? That doesn't explain the lack of performance during big games against talented teams. Since Christmas the Celtics have lost to Phoenix, Atlanta three times, Cleveland twice, Orlando twice, the Lakers, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Milwaukee and Memphis. All teams with good records and/or playing well at the time. They have beaten the Lakers, Portland twice and Miami twice in that time but wins over quality opponents have been few and far between in the last three months.

So is it the coach, who's at time baffling rotations and substitutions, lack of a desire to change and lack of forcing his will on this team(very little practice time, inability to motivate the team)? Is it the players who have looked disinterested, had an inability to bounce back from injury, look to be declining and have aging games, lack leadership and have had some internal strife? Is it the front office for bringing in an oft injured player that got injured, for bringing in an old aging and lazy player that has looked old, aging and lazy, for resigning an immature, chunky, undersized center that has been immature(getting into a fight and breaking his thumb, calling fans names, worrying about a nickname), chunky and hopelessly overmatched when trying to shoot underneath, and not trading a raft of expiring contracts at the deadline to upgrade for the future? Is it the early season schedule that overworked an aging team? Is it all of the above?

Is it something else? Chemistry issues? We've seen Ray and Paul and KG have games where they hardly shot or had the ball stick in their hands too much, we've seen Rondo take a more pronounced scoring role, we've seen Perk and Davis become black holes at times, we've seen more defensive breakdowns than any of us care to discuss.Lock room issues? We've heard Rondo come out and try to address this only to get verbally castigated in public by KG for letting it out of the lock room and there have been whisperings of a young/old fraction behind closed doors. Is it that the team has stopped listening to the coach? Recent complaints about a lack of practice by Perk and a clouded complaint about wanting to practice at the expense of missing games by KG and Paul suggest it's possible. Is the team just having a massive case of seeing a bunch of players all get old all in the same year? The injuries, inconsistencies, declining stats and efforts of some, if not all of the Celtics players over 30 indicate it could be possible.

I really am not sure. Maybe all of the above in various amounts. For all of the attempts to affix blame for the performance that we have seen from this team, I don't think there is just one definable, concrete reason for the failures of the 2009-10 Boston Celtics since late December. For all of the attempts suggested to fix this team, I don't there is think one specific thing that can be done that will turn this team around to perform at a level that we are accustomed to. I think the realistic explanation about what ails this team is simply, there's a whole lot of things that ails this team and that because of this, it's just too darn difficult to figure out which are the most pressing issues.

A myriad of problems requires a spectrum of solutions.

And I'm just not sure that all the problems can be discovered and addressed before this team has to start playing game that if they lose will be a countdown to the end of their season. In January, there was lots of time. In February, there was plenty of time. Come mid March, we are running out of time.

Does that mean the ship can't be righted and that this team can't rattle of a great playoff run and dash to Banner 18? Absolutely not, it's been done before. The 1969 Celtics went 22-24 between Christmas and St Patty's Day and won it all. The 1975 Golden State Warriors went 20-21 between Christmas and St. Patty's Day and won it all. The 1978 Washington Bullets went 18-20 between Christmas and St. Patty's and won it all. But recently? Let's just say that the ability to hit the switch and turn around 11 weeks of mediocrity seems to be something that only occurred in a bygone era.

So, what to do? I wish I knew. Better yet I wish Doc Rivers, Tom Thibodeau, Clifford Ray and Armond Hill knew. I wish Danny Ainge knew. I wish Paul, Ray, Rajon, Kevin, Kendrick, Rasheed, Glen, Nate, Tony, Brian, Michael, Shelden, Marquis and Marcus knew. I just don't think they do.

I love this team no matter the record, no matter whether they win or lose, no matter whether they have a first round knock out or an epic run to a championship. I always will but there are definite problems that need addressing some that we know about, some we don't know about, I am sure. But whether they can be taken care of before real basketball starts being played in April is something only the people cashing paychecks from the Boston Celtics can truly know the answer to.

But I do know one thing, if the team can not find out all the things wrong with it before playoff basketball ensues and gets bounced early, Danny Ainge's simplest solution to fixing it might be to blow it all up and start all over. Coaches and players alike could change and they might only have themselves to blame if they are unemployed or not in Boston again next year.

With the injured Captain out there as a major liability--and his apparent best backup just given away to NY and too small-g green to help this year anyway, the C's aren't going anywhere.

Thanks for the input but the Bill Walker thread is located somewhere else

[FatjohnReturns]

Good post TP.  Before we blow up one of the most talented rosters we've had in 20 years. How about a coaching change?

The quote by Finley about alot of trash talking and not enough teaching are [dang]ing.

[GreenFaith1819]

Nice Post, PLamb.

And I think the fact that Doc stated that there will be more practice sessions will help this team as well.

The ship can be righted. And the awesome thing out of all of this is that all will be forgiven if Banner 18 is hoisted in June 2010.

[moiso]

Popovich or Phil Jax wouldn't be able to win with this team right now.  The coasting is in direct correlation with old age.  They just can't bring it for 48 minutes a night.  That's not going to change in the playoffs, either.  A month ago I thought maybe if everyone gets healthy, we'll have another title shot.  Now I just think we are too old and lethargic.  None of the Big 3 is really a star at this point.  Rondo is our best player right now.  I'm not sure that's going to change.  Remember Pierce matching Lebron bucket for bucket a couple years ago?  That seems so very long ago.

[looseball]

Does that mean the ship can't be righted and that this team can't rattle of a great playoff run and dash to Banner 18? Absolutely not, it's been done before. The 1969 Celtics went 22-24 between Christmas and St Patty's Day and won it all. The 1975 Golden State Warriors went 20-21 between Christmas and St. Patty's Day and won it all. The 1978 Washington Bullets went 18-20 between Christmas and St. Patty's and won it all. But recently? Let's just say that the ability to hit the switch and turn around 11 weeks of mediocrity seems to be something that only occurred in a bygone era.

This is the best news of the day!

[JSD]

What is wrong with the Boston Celtics?

It's been a subject of great debate now for the better part of two months as on Christmas night this team stood at 23-5 and had beaten good teams or teams that would become good with wins over Cleveland, Orlando, Utah, Oklahoma City, San Antonio and Milwaukee. They had one bad loss, a loss to Indiana on the road after and exhausting nationally televised late start game here in Boston the night before and was their 11th game in 19 days. All in all, pretty understandable given the circumstances.

But Christmas came and went and so did Kevin Garnett and his seemingly rehabbed injured knee. Kevin went down. Marquis Daniels had already gone down with a thumb injury. Glen Davis came back but was ineffective and out of shape. Pierce would go down with a knee infection, then come back. Then go down with a sprained foot, then come back. Then go down with a bad thumb, then come back. And the team saw some minor other ailments and the flu hit it that caused a missed game or two here and there from others. To say that after Christmas the coaching staff had much of an idea as to who would be playing and who wouldn't on a nightly basis, is a bit of an understatement.

And the team has not been good since then. On Christmas night after beating the Magic the Celtics were 23-5. Almost three whole months and almost a half season later the Celtics now stand at 41-24. A record of 18-19 since then. For a team with this much talent and "name" players and championship pedigree, it's quite mind boggling.

But what happened? Is it just the injuries? The injuries don't explain the lack of effort this teams puts in versus what some pundits would call inferior teams. Is it boredom? That doesn't explain the lack of performance during big games against talented teams. Since Christmas the Celtics have lost to Phoenix, Atlanta three times, Cleveland twice, Orlando twice, the Lakers, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Milwaukee and Memphis. All teams with good records and/or playing well at the time. They have beaten the Lakers, Portland twice and Miami twice in that time but wins over quality opponents have been few and far between in the last three months.

So is it the coach, who's at time baffling rotations and substitutions, lack of a desire to change and lack of forcing his will on this team(very little practice time, inability to motivate the team)? Is it the players who have looked disinterested, had an inability to bounce back from injury, look to be declining and have aging games, lack leadership and have had some internal strife? Is it the front office for bringing in an oft injured player that got injured, for bringing in an old aging and lazy player that has looked old, aging and lazy, for resigning an immature, chunky, undersized center that has been immature(getting into a fight and breaking his thumb, calling fans names, worrying about a nickname), chunky and hopelessly overmatched when trying to shoot underneath, and not trading a raft of expiring contracts at the deadline to upgrade for the future? Is it the early season schedule that overworked an aging team? Is it all of the above?

Is it something else? Chemistry issues? We've seen Ray and Paul and KG have games where they hardly shot or had the ball stick in their hands too much, we've seen Rondo take a more pronounced scoring role, we've seen Perk and Davis become black holes at times, we've seen more defensive breakdowns than any of us care to discuss.Lock room issues? We've heard Rondo come out and try to address this only to get verbally castigated in public by KG for letting it out of the lock room and there have been whisperings of a young/old fraction behind closed doors. Is it that the team has stopped listening to the coach? Recent complaints about a lack of practice by Perk and a clouded complaint about wanting to practice at the expense of missing games by KG and Paul suggest it's possible. Is the team just having a massive case of seeing a bunch of players all get old all in the same year? The injuries, inconsistencies, declining stats and efforts of some, if not all of the Celtics players over 30 indicate it could be possible.

I really am not sure. Maybe all of the above in various amounts. For all of the attempts to affix blame for the performance that we have seen from this team, I don't think there is just one definable, concrete reason for the failures of the 2009-10 Boston Celtics since late December. For all of the attempts suggested to fix this team, I don't there is think one specific thing that can be done that will turn this team around to perform at a level that we are accustomed to. I think the realistic explanation about what ails this team is simply, there's a whole lot of things that ails this team and that because of this, it's just too darn difficult to figure out which are the most pressing issues.

A myriad of problems requires a spectrum of solutions.

And I'm just not sure that all the problems can be discovered and addressed before this team has to start playing game that if they lose will be a countdown to the end of their season. In January, there was lots of time. In February, there was plenty of time. Come mid March, we are running out of time.

Does that mean the ship can't be righted and that this team can't rattle of a great playoff run and dash to Banner 18? Absolutely not, it's been done before. The 1969 Celtics went 22-24 between Christmas and St Patty's Day and won it all. The 1975 Golden State Warriors went 20-21 between Christmas and St. Patty's Day and won it all. The 1978 Washington Bullets went 18-20 between Christmas and St. Patty's and won it all. But recently? Let's just say that the ability to hit the switch and turn around 11 weeks of mediocrity seems to be something that only occurred in a bygone era.

So, what to do? I wish I knew. Better yet I wish Doc Rivers, Tom Thibodeau, Clifford Ray and Armond Hill knew. I wish Danny Ainge knew. I wish Paul, Ray, Rajon, Kevin, Kendrick, Rasheed, Glen, Nate, Tony, Brian, Michael, Shelden, Marquis and Marcus knew. I just don't think they do.

I love this team no matter the record, no matter whether they win or lose, no matter whether they have a first round knock out or an epic run to a championship. I always will but there are definite problems that need addressing some that we know about, some we don't know about, I am sure. But whether they can be taken care of before real basketball starts being played in April is something only the people cashing paychecks from the Boston Celtics can truly know the answer to.

But I do know one thing, if the team can not find out all the things wrong with it before playoff basketball ensues and gets bounced early, Danny Ainge's simplest solution to fixing it might be to blow it all up and start all over. Coaches and players alike could change and they might only have themselves to blame if they are unemployed or not in Boston again next year.

PLamb, There is a reason you are on the verge of averaging a TP a post.

Good read, The past champions you listed struggling between Christmas and St. Paddy's day was encouraging to me. Call me a homer but I still expect a strong playoff performance from this team.

[PLamb]

Thanks Jsaad!!

And those others for your kind words.

And as for the suggestions to fix things, I'm not sure firing Doc is going to do anything

Detroit came up with that idea with Flip Saunders and they are on their second coach two years later and the team went into full revolt mode when Flip wasn't there

The best answer, believe it or not, might be to do nothing but start fresh again next year with Ray signed to a one or two year deal, Nate signed to a three year deal, and some additions via the MLE and vet minimum signings.

Have Doc start fresh from the start with a different attitude toward the whole team and see what happens

If the team fails again, fire Doc and go nuts at the trade deadline dumping what you can and wait out the lockout for a complete overhaul for 2012

Either way, I don't see quick fixes because of the amount of things wrong here

If hitting the reset button for next year doesn't work, then awaiting 2012 is going to be a while

If firing Doc doesn't work, then stripping down the team and getting players for the new coach's system is going to be a while

Either way, the absolute best way to know things will change will be waiting for Pierce, Allen, KG and Rasheed to retire.

[Drucci]

Great thread PLamb, I was thinking something in the same lines but you summed up my thoughts and this mind-boggling situation perfectly.

Sure, age and injuries are an explanation, but I just don't buy that this team is on the decline. You decline when you have old players getting even more older, but I don't understand how you can go from 23-5 to our current record and lose all the "big games", amidst games against baéd teams, in the span of one season, when your players are finally getting back in the rotation and healthy.

It's really a big mystery. I have lost a lot of faith in this team. I still believe that they can go all the way in the playoffs because it's possible and we have seen weirder things happen before but... their season is really, really mind-boggling and I had never seen a team so frustrating in the past.

I would add to your explanation that the blown leads come to mind too when you think about how strange this team is. Had they kept their leads in "big games", their record would be much better (like, 10 more wins). I'm not saying it to say our record doesn't speak for our true value and talent but it's quite a mystery too that the team played so well for a half and then always disappear in the second half. Once again, nothing to do with a team on the decline since they played brilliant basketball for 24 minutes and terrible one for the next 24 minutes.

Really, this team could be renamed "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde". And now that it seems we're going down, I just hope we will be the good side of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde come playoffs time (or even before, to get the #3 seed).

[barefacedmonk]

Good post, PLamb. TP.

If Danny really needs to make some changes in the offseason then he should start with Doc. I mean, its easier to fire one person than a few at once. That said, I'm part of the tiny minority that feels this team and the coach should be given one more year. Sign some players to help the team.....but don't blow it up. Atleast not for another year (I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for saying that).

[MBunge]

Good post, PLamb. TP.

If Danny really needs to make some changes in the offseason then he should start with Doc. I mean, its easier to fire one person than a few at once. That said, I'm part of the tiny minority that feels this team and the coach should be given one more year. Sign some players to help the team.....but don't blow it up. Atleast not for another year (I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for saying that).

This team should only be blown up if their failure to compete continues into the playoffs and they get knocked off by the Heat or somebody.  I don't see any reason to bring Ray back just so next year's team can be as unpleasant to watch as this year's (even though Ray is the least of this team's problems).

Mike

[FatjohnReturns]

Popovich or Phil Jax wouldn't be able to win with this team right now.  The coasting is in direct correlation with old age.  They just can't bring it for 48 minutes a night.  That's not going to change in the playoffs, either.  A month ago I thought maybe if everyone gets healthy, we'll have another title shot.  Now I just think we are too old and lethargic.  None of the Big 3 is really a star at this point.  Rondo is our best player right now.  I'm not sure that's going to change.  Remember Pierce matching Lebron bucket for bucket a couple years ago?  That seems so very long ago.

Sorry moiso cant agree with this post. There are alot of coaches who could get more outta this team (Jackson,Pop,Larry Brown,Jeff Van Gundy) I do agree and I think everyone realizes we cant bring it for 48 minutes a night. This is when the coach needs to use his rotation and make adjustments to compensate. How has Doc coached our offense? Our offense is hero drives to the rim or jumpshots its sad.

When Doc questions hustle,energy, and desire I just sigh because Rasheed has not been benched all year. He walks up the floor on fast breaks plays lazy defense and generally doesnt hustle. So how can Doc have any credibility when he is preaching one thing and takes the easy way out himself. There is one set of rules for the veterans and another set for the young players and it has divided this team.




  

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Great post, PLamb.  It really does take a "perfect storm" of several big things coming together to get a title.  We had great things come together in '08, as Detroit did their title year, etc.  This year just doesn't seem to be coming together in that way.

My read on Danny's thinking at the deadline is that a few tweaks can really change a team's identity.  It think the Nate deal was an attempt to get quicker, but it just wasn't enough of a change-Nate can't make the second unit quick by himself (and with Sheed out there at the same time).  The Finley signing seems to go in the opposite direction, though.  I expected, as did many, that with Nate, the 2nd unit would be a running squad.  It doesn't appear to be happening.  Playing Fins over TA probably has something to do with that, along with having Sheed.

I think this offseason will hopefully see more tweaks toward the younger, faster, more athletic, more hope for the future than signing post-prime veterans to 'win now'.  And, really, one athletic, shooting, dunking, rotation-quality wing (SF), while keeping Nate, TA, and a properly guided hustle/role playing BBD (to play backup 5) just might be enough to shift the character of the team.  If we use the MLE on someone 30+, that would be no good (including Mike Miller).