rebuilding trade

[wiley]

Trade ID #5492225 from Real Gm.

Actually, I have no idea when next year's salaries are used in trade scenarios (if it's the day the season ends than this trade is technically impossible...)

The Trade is:

Rondo
Garnett
Perkins
2010 first round pick

for:

Jefferson
Gomes
Sessions
Brewer
Hollins
Rubio
2010 lottery pick (possibly dependant on ability to get Evan Turner)
a 3 for 5 trade since Rubio won't be around next year.....

Celtics are terrible in 2010, netting another good draft pick the following year (that's why I called it a re-building trade.   Resign Ray Allen OR Finley, plus Nate Robinson (unless you want 1 year of losing always instead of just mostly losing).

Start:  Nate, Evan Turner, Corey Brewer, Jefferson and Sheed (to use up his minutes as quick as possible).  Pierce,  Ray Allen OR Finley, Sessions, Baby, Gomes and Hollins off the bench.

2011 season begins with starters:

Rubio, Evan Turner, Corey Brewer, Jefferson and a defense oriented, shot blocking center via free agency or draft by sucking so bad in 2010 (or Sheed, Baby, Hollins)

Well, just traded my two favorite Celtics in Rondo and Garnett, plus Perk who I also love.....giving to get....getting back two ex-Celtics helps with the sting....

any trigger pullers at the oh so desperate moment of the season.......??

[Brickowski]

Why would MN do that?  They don't need picks in the low 20s.  They will have a lotto pick of their own, and giving up Rubio is like giving up another lotto pick.  LOL.

Here's the Celtics' correct rebuilding strategy: 
1. Let Ray Allen go at the end of the year, unless you can sign and trade him for a younger player.
2. Make decent draft picks in 2010.
3. Trade Perkins and Sheed over the Summer for whatever youth you can get. You don't rebuld around a second string center who can't make free throws.
4. Let Pierce go at the end of next year. 
5. Make decent draft picks in 2011.
6. Let Garnett go in 2012. 
7. Make decent draft picks in 2012. By then they will probably be in the lottery.
8. With Pierce off the books, they will have the cap space to make a run at a decent free agent in the Summer of 2011.
9. Order Rivers to play the young players.  If he doesn't like that, too bad.

Will this rational plan happen?  Of course not.  Management will try to ride the "star power" of the big 3 as long as it can in a pathetic and dishonest attempt to sell season tickets and luxury boxes. So I expect both Pierce and Ray to get cut rate extensions.  After all, Pierce has to retire a Celtic, doesn't he, even if he totally sucks?

[PLamb]

Why would MN do that?  They don't need picks in the low 20s.  They will have a lotto pick of their own, and giving up Rubio is like giving up another lotto pick.  LOL.

Here's the Celtics' correct rebuilding strategy: 
1. Let Ray Allen go at the end of the year, unless you can sign and trade him for a younger player.
2. Make decent draft picks in 2010.
3. Trade Perkins and Sheed over the Summer for whatever youth you can get. You don't rebuld around a second string center who can't make free throws.
4. Let Pierce go at the end of next year. 
5. Make decent draft picks in 2011.
6. Let Garnett go in 2012. 
7. Make decent draft picks in 2012. By then they will probably be in the lottery.
8. With Pierce off the books, they will have the cap space to make a run at a decent free agent in the Summer of 2011.
9. Order Rivers to play the young players.  If he doesn't like that, too bad.

Will this rational plan happen?  Of course not.  Management will try to ride the "star power" of the big 3 as long as it can in a pathetic and dishonest attempt to sell season tickets and luxury boxes. So I expect both Pierce and Ray to get cut rate extensions.  After all, Pierce has to retire a Celtic, doesn't he, even if he totally sucks?

I like this plan a lot better than the above trade that turns us into a 25 win team with little to no talent

[Brickowski]

Actually I like the trade but MN would never do it-- not in a million years.  Why should MN gut its roster to acquire a 20M player who can't play that well any more?

[FatjohnReturns]

Minnesota will never do that trade. Unfortunetly rebuilding will be a long process. Next year we will be a .500 club. The right call is to replace Doc now before blowing up the team. A better coach can get more outta the roster we have.

[Chris]

I don't think either team does this trade.  It makes no sense whatsoever for Minnesota, and it would absolutely kill their fanbase, and it just puts the C's back where they were a few years ago...except with worse contracts on the young players.  

A year ago, I probably would have thought this was a no brainer for the C's, but Al Jefferson just seems to be so injury prone, it really does not seem like a smart deal, given Rondo's upside.

I could live with the C's moving a package like that, but not for the package they are getting in return.  Too much mediocre, and too many questionmarks.

[ssspence]

Why would MN do that?  They don't need picks in the low 20s.  They will have a lotto pick of their own, and giving up Rubio is like giving up another lotto pick.  LOL.

Here's the Celtics' correct rebuilding strategy: 
1. Let Ray Allen go at the end of the year, unless you can sign and trade him for a younger player.
2. Make decent draft picks in 2010.
3. Trade Perkins and Sheed over the Summer for whatever youth you can get. You don't rebuld around a second string center who can't make free throws.
4. Let Pierce go at the end of next year. 
5. Make decent draft picks in 2011.
6. Let Garnett go in 2012. 
7. Make decent draft picks in 2012. By then they will probably be in the lottery.
8. With Pierce off the books, they will have the cap space to make a run at a decent free agent in the Summer of 2011.
9. Order Rivers to play the young players.  If he doesn't like that, too bad.

Will this rational plan happen?  Of course not.  Management will try to ride the "star power" of the big 3 as long as it can in a pathetic and dishonest attempt to sell season tickets and luxury boxes. So I expect both Pierce and Ray to get cut rate extensions.  After all, Pierce has to retire a Celtic, doesn't he, even if he totally sucks?

A plan this rational is almost inconceivable in the NBA. The only hope for it is the uncertainty of the lockout.

In regards to your Pierce question: is it conceivable that he could be shopped this offseason? $21mil is pretty steep, but it's only one year.

The likely answer is no when you consider the Cs won't take back more years in return -- particularly with the lockout pending.

By the way, whether we hear about it or not, I'd bet substantial money the Cs will be talking with the Bobcats about tradign Wallace there this summer. I continue to imagine we could see a) Wallace traded for Marz Mohammed, b) Perk traded for a wing player or a 4, then c) KG moved to center with Nazr and Baby backing him up against more physical cetners.

[clover]

I'd trade Robinson and Landry for House and Walker--if I could.

[slamtheking]

Why would MN do that?  They don't need picks in the low 20s.  They will have a lotto pick of their own, and giving up Rubio is like giving up another lotto pick.  LOL.

Here's the Celtics' correct rebuilding strategy: 
1. Let Ray Allen go at the end of the year, unless you can sign and trade him for a younger player.
2. Make decent draft picks in 2010.
3. Trade Perkins and Sheed over the Summer for whatever youth you can get. You don't rebuld around a second string center who can't make free throws.
4. Let Pierce go at the end of next year. 
5. Make decent draft picks in 2011.
6. Let Garnett go in 2012. 
7. Make decent draft picks in 2012. By then they will probably be in the lottery.
8. With Pierce off the books, they will have the cap space to make a run at a decent free agent in the Summer of 2011.
9. Order Rivers to play the young players.  If he doesn't like that, too bad.

Will this rational plan happen?  Of course not.  Management will try to ride the "star power" of the big 3 as long as it can in a pathetic and dishonest attempt to sell season tickets and luxury boxes. So I expect both Pierce and Ray to get cut rate extensions.  After all, Pierce has to retire a Celtic, doesn't he, even if he totally sucks?

basically you'd just let players walk as they expire.  Understandable. 
What I'd add to that if that's the route you're going:
* I'd push Doc out the door at the end of the season.  He won't play youth and that's what you'll be acquiring.
* Try like hell to S&T Ray to a contender.  If not, let him walk.  Let all the expiring contracts walk except maybe Nate.  If you're going in the tank, go deep.
* Try like hell to trade PP and BBD's expiring deals for youth and/or picks.  Picks are the priority.  Let Danny do what he does best which is draft talent.  Just needs a coach that will play and develop that young talent.
* Move Sheed to Charlotte if at all possible.  a couple of second rounders might be all we get due to his contract.
* Try like hell to move KG to a contender next year for youth and picks.  Probably no takers until the following year though due to the length of the deal and the CBA.  If a lockout is looming and owners aren't paying the players, KG's deal might be appealing---having him against the theoretical cap but not paying him might entice someone. 
* keep Rondo.
* Field offers for Perk.  Need a very solid starter and a 1st rounder.  good young centers aren't a dime a dozen.

this is a very draconian strategy that won't see the light of day but if you're going to intentionally implode the team, do it big to turnover a currently-noncontending roster of old players to get young players with motivation and high (or at least higher) draft positioning to acquire good young (and affordable) talent.
This isn't my preferred strategy but I'd buy into it as at least making an attempt to get to a solid and improving talent base in a few short years.

[Brickowski]

Yes, I agree with most of your post, slamtheking.  What they need to do is get bad fast, not slowly.  It's like pulling off adhesive tape.

But will ownership buy into that?  It means that their revenues go South.  The marketing department has invested heavily in establishing the star status of the big three, even though they will never again play like stars. I never though I'd see the day when Garnett was completely dominated by Anderson Varejao.

The other thing you have to avoid is trading your expiring contracts for slightly younger veterans.  That strategy also prolongs the agony, and you never get under the cap. An examply would have been trading Ray for Antawn Jamison.

Lastly, you have to take a chance on flawed players, e.g. high picks who haven't really worked out, e.g. Michael Beasley, or players with character issues, e.g. Delonte West.

And yes, Doc Rivers is not the right coach for a young team. I'd kick Rivers upstairs and hire Bobby Knight if I could.  Or Ben Howland.  Or Lorenzo Romar.

[wdleehi]

If the team decides to blow up, the best idea would be to go to the bad teams with a lot of cap space if they sign one, and only one of the top FA.  Offer KG and Pierce to be the 2nd (or third is some cases) for their 1st round pick. 

[boscel33]

part of the rebuilding process will probably mean the end of doc rivers tenure in boston.  if this is the case, who would you like to see has head coach? i was talking with a friend of mine and we were trying to come up with some names, but the picking is slim.

an initial thought that i had was roy williams.  he might be ready to leave unc and he could be a fresh face.  i know that i don't want an nba head coach re-tread, that's for sure.

[Chris]

If the team decides to blow up, the best idea would be to go to the bad teams with a lot of cap space if they sign one, and only one of the top FA.  Offer KG and Pierce to be the 2nd (or third is some cases) for their 1st round pick. 

Yeah, I think this would be ideal (assuming blowing it up would be the plan).  I think you could also do that with teams without the cap space, but have an expiring contract.  I think they could convince a team trying to win now to give up and expiring contract and a decent young guy or two, and a draft pick or two.

[Brickowski]

If some other team wants Garnett or Pierce, it will be mostly for cap purposes, unless it's a contender thinking that one more veteran ex-all star will put them over the top. But contending teams do not have lotto picks, and you aren't going to rebuild picking in the late 20's.

IMHO it is better to let the deals expire and get under the cap. It gives you more options.

[wdleehi]

If the team decides to blow up, the best idea would be to go to the bad teams with a lot of cap space if they sign one, and only one of the top FA.  Offer KG and Pierce to be the 2nd (or third is some cases) for their 1st round pick. 

Yeah, I think this would be ideal (assuming blowing it up would be the plan).  I think you could also do that with teams without the cap space, but have an expiring contract.  I think they could convince a team trying to win now to give up and expiring contract and a decent young guy or two, and a draft pick or two.

Yep.


I keep thinking about teams like NJ and the Clippers.