Next Years Record is going to be UGLY

[2short]

Oh... Danny... don't forget to trade expensive aging talent (Paul Pierce, whatever is left of KG, etc.) to teams in the West like Denver and Dallas to overtake the Lakers. 

danny better not trade paul. he needs to be a celtic for life.  i dont care how old and crappy he might be, i want him in green.  i know im speaking with my heart rather than my head, but its truthful nonetheless.

I agree.  Danny may regret that Larry Bird and Kevin McHale retired in green, but I don't.  I don't really care if it means a year or two of extended mediocrity.

I suppose if Pierce forces our hand and won't sign a reasonable deal when his contract expires, that would be different.  However, I'd prefer not to trade him at this point.

As for our record this year, I can't see this team being a sub-500 team.  This same exact team got off to a 23-5 record when they were playing at their best, both physically and mentally.  To describe them as a near-lottery team is, in my mind, not accurate.

agree, Paul should retire in green unless a bourque like situation comes up that we trade him so he can go out on top
As for the ugly record I don't see it.  healthy all stars no matter what age are still better than some of the teams we've put out there in recent years

[droopdog7]

Oh... Danny... don't forget to trade expensive aging talent (Paul Pierce, whatever is left of KG, etc.) to teams in the West like Denver and Dallas to overtake the Lakers. 

danny better not trade paul. he needs to be a celtic for life.  i dont care how old and crappy he might be, i want him in green.  i know im speaking with my heart rather than my head, but its truthful nonetheless.

Based on how much Pierce will be making next year, his trade value is not going to be very high.

For comparison, last summer a $20 million Shaq was traded to Clevelend in return for 2 overpaid buyout role players - Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic, and late 2nd round pick and a cash savings of about 5 million. Thats it!

Will a $21 million Pierce fetch more than that this summer? I doubt it. If the Celtics can only get flotsam and jetsome in return, I would much rather have Pierce retire as a Celtic.

KG is probably going to fall into a similar category. We'll see what these guys have in them this spring.

You're probably right in that trading PP for something of value will not be an easy proposition.  But I don't think that the money will concern the other team because as you know, unless they are under the cap, they will have to send out about as much money as they take in.  And the fact that PP's contract is expiring, they could actually save money by trading for PP.

In the end though, it is difficult for me to imagine what a contending team would be willing to give for PP that would be of value.  I suppose they could send us expiring nobodies along with draft picks, but those will be late draft picks.  Of course, that may be better than nothing? 

The other option is to trade PP to a non-contending team that wants to shed salary.  There may be teams with a good younger player that will bite.

Bottom line though is that money concerns are not a reason that another team will not trade for PP.

[dark_lord]

Oh... Danny... don't forget to trade expensive aging talent (Paul Pierce, whatever is left of KG, etc.) to teams in the West like Denver and Dallas to overtake the Lakers. 

danny better not trade paul. he needs to be a celtic for life.  i dont care how old and crappy he might be, i want him in green.  i know im speaking with my heart rather than my head, but its truthful nonetheless.

lol, classic!  tp

[CelticG1]

Oh... Danny... don't forget to trade expensive aging talent (Paul Pierce, whatever is left of KG, etc.) to teams in the West like Denver and Dallas to overtake the Lakers. 

danny better not trade paul. he needs to be a celtic for life.  i dont care how old and crappy he might be, i want him in green.  i know im speaking with my heart rather than my head, but its truthful nonetheless.

Based on how much Pierce will be making next year, his trade value is not going to be very high.

For comparison, last summer a $20 million Shaq was traded to Clevelend in return for 2 overpaid buyout role players - Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic, and late 2nd round pick and a cash savings of about 5 million. Thats it!

Will a $21 million Pierce fetch more than that this summer? I doubt it. If the Celtics can only get flotsam and jetsome in return, I would much rather have Pierce retire as a Celtic.

KG is probably going to fall into a similar category. We'll see what these guys have in them this spring.

I think that Shaq trade was kind of rare. The value in trading Pierce would be for his expiring contract for the receiving team to shed salary. Kind of like Washington trading away jamison and then buying out llegauskas, they weren't looking for value just trying to save money. If we traded Pierce next year, which I hope we won't, we would probably try and look for another team that is looking to Shed and maybe pick up a solid player from them.

[mobilija]

gotta worry about this year's record first

At this point, I'm not worried about it; I know pretty much what to expect from the 2009-2010 Celtics now.

Expect the unexpected...

[Mr October]

Oh... Danny... don't forget to trade expensive aging talent (Paul Pierce, whatever is left of KG, etc.) to teams in the West like Denver and Dallas to overtake the Lakers. 

danny better not trade paul. he needs to be a celtic for life.  i dont care how old and crappy he might be, i want him in green.  i know im speaking with my heart rather than my head, but its truthful nonetheless.

Based on how much Pierce will be making next year, his trade value is not going to be very high.

For comparison, last summer a $20 million Shaq was traded to Clevelend in return for 2 overpaid buyout role players - Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic, and late 2nd round pick and a cash savings of about 5 million. Thats it!

Will a $21 million Pierce fetch more than that this summer? I doubt it. If the Celtics can only get flotsam and jetsome in return, I would much rather have Pierce retire as a Celtic.

KG is probably going to fall into a similar category. We'll see what these guys have in them this spring.

You're probably right in that trading PP for something of value will not be an easy proposition.  But I don't think that the money will concern the other team because as you know, unless they are under the cap, they will have to send out about as much money as they take in.  And the fact that PP's contract is expiring, they could actually save money by trading for PP.

In the end though, it is difficult for me to imagine what a contending team would be willing to give for PP that would be of value.  I suppose they could send us expiring nobodies along with draft picks, but those will be late draft picks.  Of course, that may be better than nothing? 

The other option is to trade PP to a non-contending team that wants to shed salary.  There may be teams with a good younger player that will bite.

Bottom line though is that money concerns are not a reason that another team will not trade for PP.

$21 million dollars is a huge money concern. The Celtics would have to take a terrible contract like Antawn Jamison, or an equal-ish player to pierce in salary/age/skill, like T-Mac. The C's certainly wont be able to get a young star player. What team in their right mind would trade a young star for a aging swingman who appears to only have about 2 years left in his career (as a starter).

Certainly Ainge should explore everything. If some other team is foolish enough to swap back a lottery pick with a bad contract, then pounce. Otherwise keeping Pierce is worth more than getting just a bunch of overpaid role players and a late pick.

We'll see what happens this summer or a year from now. Just remember, expiring contracts are only appealing if you have an additional asset to package with it. The C's only quality young assets are Rondo and Perkins.

[Mr October]

Oh... Danny... don't forget to trade expensive aging talent (Paul Pierce, whatever is left of KG, etc.) to teams in the West like Denver and Dallas to overtake the Lakers. 

danny better not trade paul. he needs to be a celtic for life.  i dont care how old and crappy he might be, i want him in green.  i know im speaking with my heart rather than my head, but its truthful nonetheless.

Based on how much Pierce will be making next year, his trade value is not going to be very high.

For comparison, last summer a $20 million Shaq was traded to Clevelend in return for 2 overpaid buyout role players - Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic, and late 2nd round pick and a cash savings of about 5 million. Thats it!

Will a $21 million Pierce fetch more than that this summer? I doubt it. If the Celtics can only get flotsam and jetsome in return, I would much rather have Pierce retire as a Celtic.

KG is probably going to fall into a similar category. We'll see what these guys have in them this spring.

You're probably right in that trading PP for something of value will not be an easy proposition.  But I don't think that the money will concern the other team because as you know, unless they are under the cap, they will have to send out about as much money as they take in.  And the fact that PP's contract is expiring, they could actually save money by trading for PP.

In the end though, it is difficult for me to imagine what a contending team would be willing to give for PP that would be of value.  I suppose they could send us expiring nobodies along with draft picks, but those will be late draft picks.  Of course, that may be better than nothing? 

The other option is to trade PP to a non-contending team that wants to shed salary.  There may be teams with a good younger player that will bite.

Bottom line though is that money concerns are not a reason that another team will not trade for PP.

$21 million dollars is a huge money concern. The Celtics would have to take a terrible contract like Antawn Jamison, or an equal-ish player to pierce in salary/age/skill, like T-Mac. The C's certainly wont be able to get a young star player. What team in their right mind would trade a young star for a aging swingman who appears to only have about 2 years left in his career (as a starter)?

Certainly Ainge should explore everything. If some other team is foolish enough to swap back a lottery pick with a bad contract, then pounce. Otherwise keeping Pierce is worth more than getting just a bunch of overpaid role players and a late pick.

We'll see what happens this summer or a year from now. Just remember, expiring contracts are only appealing if you have an additional asset to package with it. The C's only quality young assets are Rondo and Perkins.

This is why Ray Allen is still a Celtic.

[droopdog7]

Oh... Danny... don't forget to trade expensive aging talent (Paul Pierce, whatever is left of KG, etc.) to teams in the West like Denver and Dallas to overtake the Lakers. 

danny better not trade paul. he needs to be a celtic for life.  i dont care how old and crappy he might be, i want him in green.  i know im speaking with my heart rather than my head, but its truthful nonetheless.

Based on how much Pierce will be making next year, his trade value is not going to be very high.

For comparison, last summer a $20 million Shaq was traded to Clevelend in return for 2 overpaid buyout role players - Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic, and late 2nd round pick and a cash savings of about 5 million. Thats it!

Will a $21 million Pierce fetch more than that this summer? I doubt it. If the Celtics can only get flotsam and jetsome in return, I would much rather have Pierce retire as a Celtic.

KG is probably going to fall into a similar category. We'll see what these guys have in them this spring.

You're probably right in that trading PP for something of value will not be an easy proposition.  But I don't think that the money will concern the other team because as you know, unless they are under the cap, they will have to send out about as much money as they take in.  And the fact that PP's contract is expiring, they could actually save money by trading for PP.

In the end though, it is difficult for me to imagine what a contending team would be willing to give for PP that would be of value.  I suppose they could send us expiring nobodies along with draft picks, but those will be late draft picks.  Of course, that may be better than nothing? 

The other option is to trade PP to a non-contending team that wants to shed salary.  There may be teams with a good younger player that will bite.

Bottom line though is that money concerns are not a reason that another team will not trade for PP.

$21 million dollars is a huge money concern. The Celtics would have to take a terrible contract like Antawn Jamison, or an equal-ish player to pierce in salary/age/skill, like T-Mac. The C's certainly wont be able to get a young star player. What team in their right mind would trade a young star for a aging swingman who appears to only have about 2 years left in his career (as a starter).

Certainly Ainge should explore everything. If some other team is foolish enough to swap back a lottery pick with a bad contract, then pounce. Otherwise keeping Pierce is worth more than getting just a bunch of overpaid role players and a late pick.

We'll see what happens this summer or a year from now. Just remember, expiring contracts are only appealing if you have an additional asset to package with it. The C's only quality young assets are Rondo and Perkins.

In your original post, you made it seem like the money would be a concern for the team trading for Pierce.  This flat out isn't true for the reasons I stated.  Now you talk as though it would be a concern for the Celts.  With this I agree (which is why I mentioned taking back expiring contracts for PP along with draft picks). 

In terms of why a team would trade a young player for PP, it would be all about finances for them.  Of course, we would have to reason to take on a bad contract of a bad or aging player.  On the other hand, maybe we take on a long term (and pricey) contract of a good player (from  team wishing to shed salary).  Is this likely?  Who knows but it is not impossible. 

In terms of why Ray is still a Celt, I addressed that too.  DA was not going to make a trade that hurt us in the short term because at the time, we were still a title contender.  DA tried to have his cake and eat it too.  That will be completely gone next year and the only concern DA will have is improving our chances for the future.  Just look at NY who traded players as a complete salary dump.

Listen, I would like PP to retire as a Celtic.  And if he was willing to retire after next year, I think there would be a good chance that would happen.  But of course, PP will not want to retire a next year.  He likely will want several years (at a reasonable rate) after next year.  My point is, I don't think that will be good for the Celts or PP.  Rather than a going off into the sunset, we might have a disgruntled vet wasting away on a losing team.

Besides, PP may decide to take that choice away.  Once his contract expires, I would not be surprised to see him try and sign with a winner for one of the exceptions.  If he can get the mid-level exception, then more power to him because I don't think we should be paying him that much more than that anyway. 

[Bahku]

Oh... Danny... don't forget to trade expensive aging talent (Paul Pierce, whatever is left of KG, etc.) to teams in the West like Denver and Dallas to overtake the Lakers. 

danny better not trade paul. he needs to be a celtic for life.  i dont care how old and crappy he might be, i want him in green.  i know im speaking with my heart rather than my head, but its truthful nonetheless.

I agree.  Danny may regret that Larry Bird and Kevin McHale retired in green, but I don't.  I don't really care if it means a year or two of extended mediocrity.

I suppose if Pierce forces our hand and won't sign a reasonable deal when his contract expires, that would be different.  However, I'd prefer not to trade him at this point.

As for our record this year, I can't see this team being a sub-500 team.  This same exact team got off to a 23-5 record when they were playing at their best, both physically and mentally.  To describe them as a near-lottery team is, in my mind, not accurate.

agree, Paul should retire in green unless a bourque like situation comes up that we trade him so he can go out on top
As for the ugly record I don't see it.  healthy all stars no matter what age are still better than some of the teams we've put out there in recent years

I agree with the part in red ... period. Danny needs to do whatever needs to be done to retire Paul Pierce as a Celtic, or there is going to be an immense chorus of voices in an uproar calling for his (Danny's) resignation ... of which I will be the loudest.

[hpantazo]

Oh... Danny... don't forget to trade expensive aging talent (Paul Pierce, whatever is left of KG, etc.) to teams in the West like Denver and Dallas to overtake the Lakers. 

danny better not trade paul. he needs to be a celtic for life.  i dont care how old and crappy he might be, i want him in green.  i know im speaking with my heart rather than my head, but its truthful nonetheless.

I agree.  Danny may regret that Larry Bird and Kevin McHale retired in green, but I don't.  I don't really care if it means a year or two of extended mediocrity.

I suppose if Pierce forces our hand and won't sign a reasonable deal when his contract expires, that would be different.  However, I'd prefer not to trade him at this point.

As for our record this year, I can't see this team being a sub-500 team.  This same exact team got off to a 23-5 record when they were playing at their best, both physically and mentally.  To describe them as a near-lottery team is, in my mind, not accurate.

It wasn't Larry Bird and McHale retiring in green that caused us to go into mediocrity, it was the death's of Len Bias and Reggie Lewis. This team was in prime position to continue the dynasty until those things happened, those two events and the lack of salary cap relief from the NBA for Lewis hurt badly.

[More Banners]

Really, there is no way to tell what next year's record will be, but it's doubtful that it'll be "UGLY".  A 15 win season is ugly.  Without many changes, my crystal ball predicts a 45+ win team.

Our winning the division will depend on where the big-time FA's go.  If they come to the Atlantic, to Knicks and Nets, we may not win the division.  If they go southeast to Miami, then we win the division, 4th seed, but may have a worse record than the #5 team.

Perhaps our best bet for next year would be to use what we've got, but run Hubiesque rotations, limiting the big 3 to 24 minutes (1/2 game) and their backups get 24 minutes...essentially running the two shifts that drove everyone nuts when Hubie Brown coached Memphis.  The key is to have everone play all-out for the time they're on the floor, while keeping the legs fresh by limiting minutes.

By the time the playoffs come, we'll really KNOW how deep the team is, and we won't be as dependent on one player (who may not have "it" anymore).

Hopefully, we'll be able to get out on the break and RUN, BABY, RUN!!!

[Mr October]

I agree with you droopdog7. If another team goes into blowup mode and doesn't want assets in return, than absolutely Trade Pierce.

But a trade that one sided rarely happens. But its always worth a try. :-)

Going back to the money, if a team wants Pierce they have to come up with 21 million in salaries to ship back. (Thats why I said 21 million dollars is a lot to tie up with a single over the hill star).  What would a contender like Dallas, Denver, Orlando, etc send back?

Jason Terry, Caron Butler, Erick Dampier, Kenyon Martin, Nene, Vince Carter, etc? No thanks. I'd rather let Pierce's contract just come off the books.

If a team is mediocre and is looking to blow up the team like Washington did - perhaps Philly or New Orleans. Who would you get?

Iguodala, Brand, Dalembert, Emeka Okafur, etc. I'll pass. Those guys are overpaid. Teams who are looking to blow things up want young assets in return (or they are looking to shed their garbage contracts).

I'm curious to hear who you think the C's could land next year? Or who the C's could have landed this year for Ray.

[Mr October]

Oh... Danny... don't forget to trade expensive aging talent (Paul Pierce, whatever is left of KG, etc.) to teams in the West like Denver and Dallas to overtake the Lakers. 

danny better not trade paul. he needs to be a celtic for life.  i dont care how old and crappy he might be, i want him in green.  i know im speaking with my heart rather than my head, but its truthful nonetheless.

I agree.  Danny may regret that Larry Bird and Kevin McHale retired in green, but I don't.  I don't really care if it means a year or two of extended mediocrity.

I suppose if Pierce forces our hand and won't sign a reasonable deal when his contract expires, that would be different.  However, I'd prefer not to trade him at this point.

As for our record this year, I can't see this team being a sub-500 team.  This same exact team got off to a 23-5 record when they were playing at their best, both physically and mentally.  To describe them as a near-lottery team is, in my mind, not accurate.

It wasn't Larry Bird and McHale retiring in green that caused us to go into mediocrity, it was the death's of Len Bias and Reggie Lewis. This team was in prime position to continue the dynasty until those things happened, those two events and the lack of salary cap relief from the NBA for Lewis hurt badly.

Not to mention almost a full decade of bad drafting, band aid free agent signings, and band aid trades. The Acie Earl era still scars me. 

[Who]

There are only two ways that I can see the Celtics being a sub .500 team next season:

(1) They are decimated by injuries. Something much worse than what has happened this season.

(2) They blow up the roster and have a lot less talent in the squad.

[Who]

I don't want Danny to bring back Paul Pierce. I will not be happy with 2-4 extra years of mediocrity just to allow Paul to retire here.

I don't waste that type of time. I don't want to waste Rajon Rondo's career. I don't waste the numerous opportunities the C's will miss out on over that time.