BBD's Fruitless Hustle (revisited)

[Casperian]

I think it's overrated because people tend to use it as a "tiebreaker" or extra criteria to add to a player's quantifiable value. However, I think in reality, it is more of an explanation of HOW a player produced his quantifiable value, not something of extra inherent value.

Hmm, what is a player´s "quantifiable value"? Offensive output? Points + rebounds + assists? PER in comparison to his contract size, divided by length of the contract? Maybe the way how a player produces his "quantifiable value" is important to his overall value?

If a defensive rebound falls into your hands because the opposing team is already back on defense and there was no challenge for the rebound, isn´t that less valuable than a rebound you won against an opponent?

[Fafnir]

If a defensive rebound falls into your hands because the opposing team is already back on defense and there was no challenge for the rebound, isn´t that less valuable than a rebound you won against an opponent?

No, it just requires less effort to secure.

A defensive rebound is a possession saved, no matter when you get it.

[Casperian]

If a defensive rebound falls into your hands because the opposing team is already back on defense and there was no challenge for the rebound, isn´t that less valuable than a rebound you won against an opponent?

No, it just requires less effort to secure.

A defensive rebound is a possession saved, no matter when you get it.

Black and White, huh? What about the emotional impact?

What about out of bounds plays? Just another caught pass, it just required more effort?

I think how and when you save the possession is important, crucial plays are always contested and broken plays, "heat of the moment" situations are almost exclusively won by hustle, in my opinion.

[housecall]

Pretty amazing transformation for Big Baby. All of the concerns I had a year ago have been addressed.  He has found a way to harness his hustle.  He was found a way to make shots in the paint.  He is consistently making good choices - even when under duress.

Not sure what clicked, but it's exciting to see.

After the game last night NBA.tv analyst Steve Smith said if the season was over tomorrow BBD would win 6th man of the year.He's felt Big Baby has been playing better than any other 6th man coming off the bench in the league so far this season.

[More Banners]

i don't really see a different player.  He's definitely playing more minutes.  He seems to be taking more jumpers from 17ft, probably because he's not being asked to play next to Sheed, who was the designated chucker last year.  On the block, the only "new" move is throwing his wide body into the defender to create space so he doesn't get blocked several times in a row.

I still don't think I'm watching a starter, and I don't think he has the length/size that we want in someone playing the number of minutes he's been getting.

[snively]

Terrible D from Rondo and Ray so far.

[Redz]

Does no one remember the amount times he got his shot swatted back in his face last year or threw up out of control shots in the paint?  Stats be [dang]ed, he just looks like a much more confident player this year.  Lots few errors.  And don't underestimate what his willingness and ability to take frequent charges does for the team (and the opponent).  

Is his production up because he's getting more minutes or is are his minutes up because he's upped the production?  I think the latter.  

Purely from what my eyes see though.

[Redz]

that turnover he made in the last minute tonight...that's the kind of thing I saw a lot more of last year

[Spilling Green Dye]

Does no one remember the amount times he got his shot swatted back in his face last year or threw up out of control shots in the paint?  Stats be [dang]ed, he just looks like a much more confident player this year.  Lots few errors.  And don't underestimate what his willingness and ability to take frequent charges does for the team (and the opponent).  

Is his production up because he's getting more minutes or is are his minutes up because he's upped the production?  I think the latter.  

Purely from what my eyes see though.

I think he's definitely made better decisions underneath the hoop, so I agree with you there.  He's also taking more jumpshots, which I think is what the coaches ask him to do.  Unfortunately he isn't hitting them well yet, but I have confidence that his % at this will improve as the season goes by.

Overall his minutes are mostly tied to the fact that we're missing 2 other bigs (Perkins & Jermaine), but I'm sure Doc feels relatively comfortable with Davis out there.

Under normal circumstances Davis definitely does not warrant so many minutes on this team, but due to injuries these are not "normal circumstances".  Health for a big is a blessing these days!

Outside of his better decisions under the hoop he hasn't improved much, which is ok.  I do cringe though every time I see him rotate onto someone who is 15+ feet from the hoop.. it always seems he runs at them and they completely blow by him lol.  Also, the Davis + Semih combo is definitely NOT building on eachother's strengths!  Hopefully Doc keeps the two of them separate on the court, if that is possible. 

[Bankshot]

Baby has been battling knee tendinitis, that's why his game and rebounding were off the last week or so, but I guess he's feeling ok now because he's back to beasting.

This kid is taking charges, making long range jumpers (even 3's ) making it happen inside, hustling his butt off.  What the heck more do you want from this kid?  He's playing great.

[Fafnir]

If a defensive rebound falls into your hands because the opposing team is already back on defense and there was no challenge for the rebound, isn´t that less valuable than a rebound you won against an opponent?

No, it just requires less effort to secure.

A defensive rebound is a possession saved, no matter when you get it.

Black and White, huh? What about the emotional impact?

What about out of bounds plays? Just another caught pass, it just required more effort?

I think how and when you save the possession is important, crucial plays are always contested and broken plays, "heat of the moment" situations are almost exclusively won by hustle, in my opinion.

I think that key situations are the moments we as human beings remember. But every possession is important, two points is two points.

[thirstyboots18]

I love Davis' hustle.  Having said that, however, I believe that "hustle" should not be something that you pay extra for in salary.  I think any player who accepts a check from any team owes it to that team to hustle and put out effort. 

[Brendan]

hustle is always over rated

Really? By how much exactly?
I mean, how can you rate, never mind overrate something you can´t even quantify?

What I mean is fans see hustle and like it, so players that [look like they] hustle get rated higher than their total contribution warrants. A lot of time a hustle play is the result of a bad play. For example knocking the ball out from behind after a guy blows passed you, grabbing an offensive rebound off a bad shot, etc.

In baseball you see guys diving in to first base or sprinting out every ball - but what's the real value? If running all out to first base increases your risk of a hammy injury by 25% and results in an extra 5 hits a year, is it worth it? But fans love it either way. Another analogy would be outfielders making diving catches - was it a result of bad positioning or a misread on the ball? Does it have a 50% chance of turning a single into a triple when you miss the dive and it rolls to the fence? These things are to hard to capture anecdotally and casually - that's why hustle is over rated IMO. That's a general statement - not one geared at BBD.

[Brendan]

1. He's spacing the floor and taking jumpers that he passed on last year.

The problem is, he isn't making them with regularity yet. His JS% up to now is in the high .300s (.375 per 82games, if I recall correctly). This is pretty bad. For comparison, Rondo is shooting .422, and Pierce and Garnett are both around .470.

It's a zero sum game though - I cannot support this other than to say its my impression - BBD seems to be taking these in the flow of the offense when there is no higher % shot available - I'm OK with that. Sometimes the choice is shoot or get a turn over. I also think shooting these forces teams to cover you and that in turn opens things up for big men down low and drives.

[moiso]

I love Davis' hustle.  Having said that, however, I believe that "hustle" should not be something that you pay extra for in salary.  I think any player who accepts a check from any team owes it to that team to hustle and put out effort. 

I think you do pay a little more for hustle.  Marquise would be a couple pay grades higher if he competed like Baby.  A guy like Rasheed, to me, was worth far less than he was paid due to his lack of hustle.