Rondo is not the answer!

[PosImpos]

If Rondo's a problem, it's only in the sense that Rondo is the best player on our team. 

You can't win a championship if the best player on your team is Rondo - just like you can't win a championship if your best player is Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, Andre Iguodala, etc.

  But you can win a title if your best player is Chauncey and he's not as good as he is now? Not sure I agree. The better Rondo plays the easier it is for the big three to play well.

If you have 5 players on your team who are all playing near an All-Star level with a couple of dominant defensive presences in the paint, then you can win if your best player is Chauncey Billups.  Even then, it's only going to happen very rarely (once every 20-30 years).

I think it would be pretty hard to argue that the 2009-2010 Boston Celtics play defense like the 2003-2004 Pistons. 

  I'd have at least as easy a time arguing that we play defense like the 04 Pistons (we're both 2nd in the league and we were first before KG and Paul went down) that you would in arguing that they had five players near an all-star level. We also have a couple of dominant defensive presences in the paint.

Perk + KG + Rasheed =/= 03-04 Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Tayshaun Prince

[cdif911]

If Rondo's a problem, it's only in the sense that Rondo is the best player on our team. 

You can't win a championship if the best player on your team is Rondo - just like you can't win a championship if your best player is Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, Andre Iguodala, etc.

  But you can win a title if your best player is Chauncey and he's not as good as he is now? Not sure I agree. The better Rondo plays the easier it is for the big three to play well.

If you have 5 players on your team who are all playing near an All-Star level with a couple of dominant defensive presences in the paint, then you can win if your best player is Chauncey Billups.  Even then, it's only going to happen very rarely (once every 20-30 years).

I think it would be pretty hard to argue that the 2009-2010 Boston Celtics play defense like the 2003-2004 Pistons. 

  I'd have at least as easy a time arguing that we play defense like the 04 Pistons (we're both 2nd in the league and we were first before KG and Paul went down) that you would in arguing that they had five players near an all-star level. We also have a couple of dominant defensive presences in the paint.

Perk + KG + Rasheed =/= 03-04 Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Tayshaun Prince

I thought you stopped watching til the playoffs?

[PosImpos]

If Rondo's a problem, it's only in the sense that Rondo is the best player on our team. 

You can't win a championship if the best player on your team is Rondo - just like you can't win a championship if your best player is Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, Andre Iguodala, etc.

  But you can win a title if your best player is Chauncey and he's not as good as he is now? Not sure I agree. The better Rondo plays the easier it is for the big three to play well.

If you have 5 players on your team who are all playing near an All-Star level with a couple of dominant defensive presences in the paint, then you can win if your best player is Chauncey Billups.  Even then, it's only going to happen very rarely (once every 20-30 years).

I think it would be pretty hard to argue that the 2009-2010 Boston Celtics play defense like the 2003-2004 Pistons. 

  I'd have at least as easy a time arguing that we play defense like the 04 Pistons (we're both 2nd in the league and we were first before KG and Paul went down) that you would in arguing that they had five players near an all-star level. We also have a couple of dominant defensive presences in the paint.

Perk + KG + Rasheed =/= 03-04 Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Tayshaun Prince

I thought you stopped watching til the playoffs?

I'm not watching, am I?

[BballTim]

If Rondo's a problem, it's only in the sense that Rondo is the best player on our team. 

You can't win a championship if the best player on your team is Rondo - just like you can't win a championship if your best player is Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, Andre Iguodala, etc.

  But you can win a title if your best player is Chauncey and he's not as good as he is now? Not sure I agree. The better Rondo plays the easier it is for the big three to play well.

If you have 5 players on your team who are all playing near an All-Star level with a couple of dominant defensive presences in the paint, then you can win if your best player is Chauncey Billups.  Even then, it's only going to happen very rarely (once every 20-30 years).

I think it would be pretty hard to argue that the 2009-2010 Boston Celtics play defense like the 2003-2004 Pistons. 

  I'd have at least as easy a time arguing that we play defense like the 04 Pistons (we're both 2nd in the league and we were first before KG and Paul went down) that you would in arguing that they had five players near an all-star level. We also have a couple of dominant defensive presences in the paint.

Perk + KG + Rasheed =/= 03-04 Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Tayshaun Prince

  Prince is a sf. When we're healthy, we're not much worse in the paint. I'd rank them BWallace/KG/Perk/RWallace. And, again, they were #2 in defense that year. We're #2 right now but clearly #1 when healthy. Our interior defense is as good compared to the league average as theirs was.

[PosImpos]

If Rondo's a problem, it's only in the sense that Rondo is the best player on our team. 

You can't win a championship if the best player on your team is Rondo - just like you can't win a championship if your best player is Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, Andre Iguodala, etc.

  But you can win a title if your best player is Chauncey and he's not as good as he is now? Not sure I agree. The better Rondo plays the easier it is for the big three to play well.

If you have 5 players on your team who are all playing near an All-Star level with a couple of dominant defensive presences in the paint, then you can win if your best player is Chauncey Billups.  Even then, it's only going to happen very rarely (once every 20-30 years).

I think it would be pretty hard to argue that the 2009-2010 Boston Celtics play defense like the 2003-2004 Pistons. 

  I'd have at least as easy a time arguing that we play defense like the 04 Pistons (we're both 2nd in the league and we were first before KG and Paul went down) that you would in arguing that they had five players near an all-star level. We also have a couple of dominant defensive presences in the paint.

Perk + KG + Rasheed =/= 03-04 Ben Wallace, Rasheed Wallace, Tayshaun Prince

  Prince is a sf. When we're healthy, we're not much worse in the paint. I'd rank them BWallace/KG/Perk/RWallace. And, again, they were #2 in defense that year. We're #2 right now but clearly #1 when healthy. Our interior defense is as good compared to the league average as theirs was.

Well, being healthy is the hardest part.  Still, even if we're at that level when healthy, it doesn't make us a clear cut contender. 

The '04 Pistons were an unexpected contender; with Rondo as our best player, that's the best we can hope for.  If the Celtics hadn't won in '08, few would have called us a contender to start the season, and almost nobody at all would be talking of them as one now.

[LooseCannon]

Does this thread really need to get this far before someone makes a "Duh, Rondo>>>Iverson" joke?

[PosImpos]

Does this thread really need to get this far before someone makes a "Duh, Rondo>>>Iverson" joke?

It's a credit to Rondo that nobody even thought of Iverson when Rondo was the main topic of discussion, even though Iverson's nickname was part of the thread title.

[snively]

If Rondo's a problem, it's only in the sense that Rondo is the best player on our team. 

You can't win a championship if the best player on your team is Rondo - just like you can't win a championship if your best player is Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, Andre Iguodala, etc.

You can't win a championship if Rondo is your best scorer, but I think you could win one with him as the best player.  Give him an athletic big man who can run, finish and defend and a wing who can shoot the 3 and iso at a high level, and keep him as the best all-around player and I think you've got a championship core.

Rondo is one of the most dangerous players in the league with the right supporting cast.  Think back to how good Kidd was with a squad of fast-break minded athletes and shooters in New Jersey.

[PosImpos]

If Rondo's a problem, it's only in the sense that Rondo is the best player on our team. 

You can't win a championship if the best player on your team is Rondo - just like you can't win a championship if your best player is Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, Andre Iguodala, etc.

You can't win a championship if Rondo is your best scorer, but I think you could win one with him as the best player.  Give him an athletic big man who can run, finish and defend and a wing who can shoot the 3 and iso at a high level, and keep him as the best all-around player and I think you've got a championship core.

Rondo is one of the most dangerous players in the league with the right supporting cast.  Think back to how good Kidd was with a squad of fast-break minded athletes and shooters in New Jersey.

The Nets never won it all with that group.

If Rondo could add Jason Kidd's jumpshot to his repertoire then I'd get on board with the idea that a championship team could be led by him as its best player.  Without it, I'm unconvinced.

For us to win this year, Pierce or KG will have to step up and be that go-to guy that wins games for us.  Rondo isn't there yet.

[GreenFaith1819]

If Rondo is not the answer, then what was the question?

[gpap]

I agree with OP on this thread. As talented as Rondo is, I am getting really sick and tired of his turnovers, ridiculous ball handling and horrible shooting.

For all this talk of Rondo being one of the top 4, top 3, top 2, top (blast-off) point guard in the NBA (blah blah blah), he does alot of stupid things on the court.

He either needs to try decaf, stop trying to do so much, keep it simple OR bench him and play Nate Robinson more!

[gpap]

As I've said before, I blame many of our current struggles on Rondo. But, I think he's playing better than last year overall, and I think once the playoffs come around he'll be the one to get the biggest boost of energy like we saw last year (until we played Orlando).

Since January, he's been playing a lot of minutes, minutes he hasn't been used to his whole career. At times he's visibly winded, so I think with our team getting healthy his minutes will normalize.

But, even so, he hasn't been consistently good throughout the whole game and it does affect our team a lot. At times he seems to be easily dominating teams just to throw a crapper for the rest of the game.

And just like last year, he played good defense during the early portion of the season just to get a bit "lazy" with it as the season went on culminating in a poor defensive effort during the playoffs, particularly Orlando.

Yep, he needs to step it up. He has too big of a role in our team.

Rondo is fast. The big 3 are slow.

Takes a while to figure out how to maximize abilities of all involved. In 2008, the big 3 were good enough to harness Rondo's speed and rely on the older guys to carry the load. We need a better balance of both styles of play now. It's not easy. TP to the OP.

I don't buy this excuse, just because even if they aren't catching up it forces the other team's defense to catch up to him, and we always have good trailers in Ray and Pierce, plus KG runs the floor well even with his current physical problems.

This is nothing new with Rondo.

Rondo plays the toughest position, is already an All-Star and championship team starter, just turned 24 last week, has to manage a team of veterans, and consistency is the last thing to come.

Patience!

Hmmmmm....when you're contending for a championship like the way the Celtics are, the word patience doesn't mean squat, at least not to me.

[snively]

If Rondo's a problem, it's only in the sense that Rondo is the best player on our team. 

You can't win a championship if the best player on your team is Rondo - just like you can't win a championship if your best player is Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, Andre Iguodala, etc.

You can't win a championship if Rondo is your best scorer, but I think you could win one with him as the best player.  Give him an athletic big man who can run, finish and defend and a wing who can shoot the 3 and iso at a high level, and keep him as the best all-around player and I think you've got a championship core.

Rondo is one of the most dangerous players in the league with the right supporting cast.  Think back to how good Kidd was with a squad of fast-break minded athletes and shooters in New Jersey.

The Nets never won it all with that group.

If Rondo could add Jason Kidd's jumpshot to his repertoire then I'd get on board with the idea that a championship team could be led by him as its best player.  Without it, I'm unconvinced.

For us to win this year, Pierce or KG will have to step up and be that go-to guy that wins games for us.  Rondo isn't there yet.

I think the C's could do better than putting the likes of Van Horn, Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles and Todd McCullough with Rondo.  And yet the Nets still made 2 finals in a row.

And it's not like Kidd was a more dangerous offensive player than Rondo in those days.  He shot 40% from the field, and 33% from 3.

The Nets could have won with Kidd as their best player if they didn't have Van Horn/Martin/Kittles duking it out for weakest 2nd banana. 

I think the same can be true for Rondo as long as we can get him a quality up-tempo squad and then hand him the keys.

[CelticG1]

If Rondo's a problem, it's only in the sense that Rondo is the best player on our team. 

You can't win a championship if the best player on your team is Rondo - just like you can't win a championship if your best player is Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, Andre Iguodala, etc.

You can't win a championship if Rondo is your best scorer, but I think you could win one with him as the best player.  Give him an athletic big man who can run, finish and defend and a wing who can shoot the 3 and iso at a high level, and keep him as the best all-around player and I think you've got a championship core.

Rondo is one of the most dangerous players in the league with the right supporting cast.  Think back to how good Kidd was with a squad of fast-break minded athletes and shooters in New Jersey.

The Nets never won it all with that group.

If Rondo could add Jason Kidd's jumpshot to his repertoire then I'd get on board with the idea that a championship team could be led by him as its best player.  Without it, I'm unconvinced.

For us to win this year, Pierce or KG will have to step up and be that go-to guy that wins games for us.  Rondo isn't there yet.

Jason Kidd doesn't have a jumpshot. He is a terrible shooter. He's been good from 3 these past 2 years and thats it

[guava_wrench]

If Rondo's a problem, it's only in the sense that Rondo is the best player on our team. 

You can't win a championship if the best player on your team is Rondo - just like you can't win a championship if your best player is Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Joe Johnson, Amare Stoudemire, Andre Iguodala, etc.

You can't win a championship if Rondo is your best scorer, but I think you could win one with him as the best player.  Give him an athletic big man who can run, finish and defend and a wing who can shoot the 3 and iso at a high level, and keep him as the best all-around player and I think you've got a championship core.

Rondo is one of the most dangerous players in the league with the right supporting cast.  Think back to how good Kidd was with a squad of fast-break minded athletes and shooters in New Jersey.

The Nets never won it all with that group.

If Rondo could add Jason Kidd's jumpshot to his repertoire then I'd get on board with the idea that a championship team could be led by him as its best player.  Without it, I'm unconvinced.

For us to win this year, Pierce or KG will have to step up and be that go-to guy that wins games for us.  Rondo isn't there yet.

Jason Kidd doesn't have a jumpshot. He is a terrible shooter. He's been good from 3 these past 2 years and thats it

The previous poster was correct if he is only talking about 3pt shots. Kid has developed an excellent 3pt shot. He is definitely not a terrible shooter if we are talking about his 3pt shot.

If you know that Kidd can shoot the 3 now, isn't it obvious that the previous poster was referring to his shot now, not his shot back when he was mediocre?

If you want a PG who can't shoot from 3, Andre Miller is your man, or even Tony Parker, Iverson, or Baron Davis. They have all been consistently worse than Kidd.

Anyway, the 3 is less important for Rondo than the midrange jumper since the threat of a pull-up off the dribble would be deadly. That is what Iverson was able to do and what Kidd doesn't. So I would rather see Rondo get Iverson's jumper than Kidd's jumper, but I think that is harder to develop.