Al Jefferson: Not as good as we thought?

[2short]

Al has/had wonderful low post moves.  He has the injuries but I think he needs to be surrounded by some very good defensive players to look better.  Honestly I thought danny did a great job moving him but keeping perk who is nowhere near the player but cheaper and a very good defender who pairs great with (a healthy) kg.  
Would you take al or david lee?  I'd take Lee.

LOL, David Lee over Al Jefferson

Jefferson should have been an all-star last year.


David Lee has indeed improved from his college career where he totally underachieved, from the hype he got out of Prep
School.  He has done well making a mark for himself as a scrapper.  But he is a role player at best.

Not one GM in the league would take David Lee over Al Jefferson.  David Lee's parents wouldn't take him over Al.

And don't kid yourself.  If Danny could go Perkins for Jefferson straight up, he would.  All day, any day.

Within the Celtic Organization, some are still arguing the Jefferson vs KG deal.  Though Banner 17 holds great weight, in my opinion over a "what if".  However,
So far Boston has only gotten one good complete season out of KG.  It would have been curious how the Celtics with Ray Allen
would fared.  

Mind you, I love KG and his intangibles are what make the Celtics a Championship contender.  The trade is still young.

Boston gave back to Minnesota   their First Round pick
and Minnesota's first round pick.
Jefferson,
Gomes,
Telfair
Theo Ratliff
Gerald Green.

Telfair was later dealt for Quetin Richardson
Ratliff was later bought out.
Green was traded for Kirk Snyder and a 2nd round pick.


David Lee over Scalabrine all day long.
But not over Big Al Jefferson.

And he does play some defense.  Less than KG,
but more than a lick to the center of a tootsie roll lolipop

uh what roy said, i feel that lee on a good team will be better
and trust me i love al & gomes

[colincb]

Al's still recovering from last year's injuries from what I've seen this year (maybe a dozen games on league pass). The Wolves have gone backwards under the one-year Kahn/Rambis fiasco regime, each of whom is a strong candidate for the worst GMOY and COY respectively (despite having 4 1st round picks). The latest trade for Darko is not quite as mystifying as picking 2 PGs at the 5th and 6th spot, but it's pretty stupid and Rambis has insisted on instituting the Triangle offense despite not having the personnel to play it. Gomes has been jerked around plenty this year and there's a chance he'll be gone this summer.

[indeedproceed]

We can blame Rambis all we want but Big Al tonight went for 10pts 4 boards 1 stl 1 blk and 1 TO in 29 mins. That is ridiculous.

I don't know if he's just not being involved or what, but there is something fishy up there and it can't all be Rambis's coaching. 50%+ shooting, only 9 shot attempts, and zero ft's.

Kevin Love on the other hand also played 29 mins, and he went for 19 pts, 12 boards and 9ft attempts. There is something really wrong there.

[Fafnir]

I think the combination of his ACL injury, a new coach who isn't as invested in him being an all-star, and trade rumors have hurt Big Al.

He still has the potential, but with Al its been an effort issue on all the aspects of the game other than scoring.

[indeedproceed]

I think the combination of his ACL injury, a new coach who isn't as invested in him being an all-star, and trade rumors have hurt Big Al.

He still has the potential, but with Al its been an effort issue on all the aspects of the game other than scoring.

He really improved his defense last year though before he went down. 20 pts 10 rebounds and improved defense on a team when literally no one could/wanted to buy a bucket.

Simply not the same player anymore. I don't think "Big Al not at good as we thought"..I think "something is screwy up there".

[More Banners]

We can blame Rambis all we want but Big Al tonight went for 10pts 4 boards 1 stl 1 blk and 1 TO in 29 mins. That is ridiculous.

I don't know if he's just not being involved or what, but there is something fishy up there and it can't all be Rambis's coaching. 50%+ shooting, only 9 shot attempts, and zero ft's.

Kevin Love on the other hand also played 29 mins, and he went for 19 pts, 12 boards and 9ft attempts. There is something really wrong there.

Whew...the last few games have been stat-line stinkers for Al.

My two cents:  Part of his trouble is that he's a great #2 offensive option, but has never been on a team good enough to make him #2, and has never learned how to be a #2.  He's the #2 on the Wolves, but the #1 plays the same position...  He doesn't have an ego problem to prevent it, but just hasn't had the opportunity to learn how to adjust.(FWIW, McHale was #2 to Bird, and that's Al's upside, so yes, he's still as good as we expected/hoped).

Love is a much better all-around player, especially for the triangle:  more mobile, better shooter, more aggressive/scrappy rebounder.  I think Darko is a better center for the triangle, too...much better passer, keeps the ball moving, and is a very good, big defender.

Result:  Al is on the trade block this summer as the Wolves troll for a scoring wing to complement the Darko/Love frontcourt and their assortment of PG's, with Brewer continuing to be the designated wing defender/3pt shooter.  And it will be better for him somewhere else, too.

[gpap]

I don't know about on the court but he was great as one of the Jeffersons in All in the Family

[indeedproceed]

I wonder if they're going to go Cousins or Turner. Cousins means they trade Al big for small, better value for their need...Turner means they trade Al for another big..which seems pretty terrible.

Who are they going to target then, Biedrins? Robin Lopez? Young bigs that match Al's potential that are trade possibilities don't exist.

[Andy Jick]

Al reminds me of Kevin Willis.  Willis was a good inside player, but he could never carry that team without 'Nique.  He had short arms (for a guy his height) and a lot of Al-like similarities.  I say this as a compliment to Al, but I fear his career may become a "what might have been" proposition...

[Celticsbloke]

I agree with the view thats been expressed that Al is a victim of circumstances. Sure, he has some flaws: defence needs to be better, passing out of double teams needs to improve. But I still see him the same way I always saw him: as a guy who can be a secondary star on a pretty good team.

He's actually very comparable to a guy who many people hold in high regard: Amare Stoudemire. Both are excellent offensive players, but neither has proven to be good enough on both ends of the floor to carry their teams to success.

I think next year or the year after, when Al hopefully finds himself fully healthy and on a team where his skills fit with what they are trying to do, you will see his numbers go back up.

As far as taking David Lee over him? Get real! Lee is a very good role player, but he has no star potential. He rebounds well and he moves well without the ball, but he relies on others to create for him, is a worse defender than Al and doesn't block any shots. Great guy to bring off your bench, but the only reason he has started so many games is because the Knicks have been stuck with a bunch of overpaid zombies in their frontcourt for the best part of a decade.   

This is by far Lee's best year and his numbers still don't stack up across the board with Al's two best years. Al would start on nearly any team that acquired him.

Big men I would currently take over Al? Bosh, Howard, Pau Gasol and Bogut. I might consider Horford the way he is coming along and possibly Brooke Lopez in future if he continues to develop. So yes there are a few better guys out there, but I still rate him top 10. 

[Andy Jick]

He's actually very comparable to a guy who many people hold in high regard: Amare Stoudemire.

no way...not even close.  i see very little in that comparison other than a direct path to the nba from high school and their injuries.

Big Al is not a dominant player...

[celticsclay]

Al has/had wonderful low post moves.  He has the injuries but I think he needs to be surrounded by some very good defensive players to look better.  Honestly I thought danny did a great job moving him but keeping perk who is nowhere near the player but cheaper and a very good defender who pairs great with (a healthy) kg.  
Would you take al or david lee?  I'd take Lee.

LOL, David Lee over Al Jefferson

Jefferson should have been an all-star last year.


David Lee has indeed improved from his college career where he totally underachieved, from the hype he got out of Prep
School.  He has done well making a mark for himself as a scrapper.  But he is a role player at best.

Not one GM in the league would take David Lee over Al Jefferson.  David Lee's parents wouldn't take him over Al.

And don't kid yourself.  If Danny could go Perkins for Jefferson straight up, he would.  All day, any day.

Within the Celtic Organization, some are still arguing the Jefferson vs KG deal.  Though Banner 17 holds great weight, in my opinion over a "what if".  However,
So far Boston has only gotten one good complete season out of KG.  It would have been curious how the Celtics with Ray Allen
would fared.  

Mind you, I love KG and his intangibles are what make the Celtics a Championship contender.  The trade is still young.

Boston gave back to Minnesota   their First Round pick
and Minnesota's first round pick.
Jefferson,
Gomes,
Telfair
Theo Ratliff
Gerald Green.

Telfair was later dealt for Quetin Richardson
Ratliff was later bought out.
Green was traded for Kirk Snyder and a 2nd round pick.


David Lee over Scalabrine all day long.
But not over Big Al Jefferson.

And he does play some defense.  Less than KG,
but more than a lick to the center of a tootsie roll lolipop

I love Big Al.  However, I think you're underrating David Lee, to suggest that the two players aren't in the same class.  I mean, Lee leads in points, rebounds, rebound rate, assists, FG% (by a large margin), and FT%.  Steals, turnovers, and fouls are virtually even, with blocks the only category that Big Al leads in, either in terms of raw stats or on a per minute basis.

In terms of the KG vs. Big Al trade, you make that trade all day, every day, even in hindsight.  I'm very skeptical that any mid- to high-level member of the Celtics organization would have any second thoughts about that trade at all.

Thank you roy, I agree with that. That was probably part of my subconscious thinking in starting this thread, but I also am really interested in whats going on with big al since I can not really watch his games often. As others have mentioned his stats have been very mediocre the second half of the seasons. I know there are a lot of other reasons (poor wings, bad coaching, rookie pg), but even so, didn't he play with worse in boston? He was along side tony allen, marcus banks,Teflair, an undeveloped KP and gerald green over the years to name a few. Even then he was starting to put up pretty nice numbers. He even did this after Pierce went down. I wonder if he needs Clifford Ray and if we can get him back. I also wish we could sign Darko, but guess that is unlikely and deserves a separate thread this summer.

[pearljammer10]

It appears that Big Al might always suffer from the Good player on a bad team syndrome. He was good here in Boston on a horrible team, now hes a good player in Minnesota on a bad team...Both situations he hasnt really had a choice but to be the focal guy. If you put him on a contending team he might be the third best player or the third option, and I dont even know how well he could handle that.

[Brickowski]

Al Jefferson is a center, an undersized center like Zelmo Beatty.  That's who he is.  If they keep trying to make him into a power forward it isn't going to work.

He should be a good fit with Love, but it simply isn't working.  I'm not sure who to blame.  Rambis, maybe, but maybe not. Al is not suited to the triangle, if that's what Rambis is trying to install.

Under McHale last year, before he got hurt, Big Al looked like an all star.

[Emmette Bryant]

Zelmo Beatty?

Tommy Point for you!

Al Jefferson is a center, an undersized center like Zelmo Beatty.  That's who he is.  If they keep trying to make him into a power forward it isn't going to work.

He should be a good fit with Love, but it simply isn't working.  I'm not sure who to blame.  Rambis, maybe, but maybe not. Al is not suited to the triangle, if that's what Rambis is trying to install.

Under McHale last year, before he got hurt, Big Al looked like an all star.