Why is Perk playing so few minutes?!

[BballTim]

  Maybe Doc's hoping that one of Baby and Sheed will be able to play themselves into shape.

Fat and round are shapes.

   Too funny.

[LooseCannon]

2007-08 24:30
2008-09   29:36
2009-10   28:23

His mpg is down slightly for 2009-2010, but the team also has more depth at big man this year. (Actually, he was probably over 30mpg in late January, but his minutes have been less recently for whatever reason.)  I think Perkins is viewed as a guy who should be playing no more than 30mpg, in part due to his injury history.

[KungPoweChicken]

Why is Perk playing so few minutes? How are these for reasons: according to 82games.com, Perk is one of the worst centers in the league at getting tips around the basket (an extremely important part of any big man's game). Perk is also one of the worst, if not the worst big man (depending on how you interpret the stats), with the ball in his hands, just about leading all centers in categories of offensive fouls, dribbling turnovers, passing turnovers, and other turnovers. Perk also, when you combine how often he gets blocked on jump shots, dunks, and close shots, leads all big men! He's just too slow and predictable. Opposing players make him eat the ball more than any other big man in the league. Oh yeah, Perk basically gets assisted on his shots more than any big man in the league, which means when he doesn't get gift wrapped a wide open shot from Rondo, Pierce, or Garnett, he's a walking disaster.

Besides those glaring, backed-up statistical flaws to Perk's game (82games), he's by far one of the slowest and least skilled beg men in the league. He is also a bad free throw shooter, even as far as big men are concerned.

But I'm sure someone will copy and paste this post and say, "No way! Perk is a beast, and he's great on defense!"

[kozlodoev]

How are these for reasons: according to 82games.com, Perk is one of the worst centers in the league at getting tips around the basket (an extremely important part of any big man's game).

This particular reason is, well, downright laughable. Tips = 1% of his shots total. I am sure that's what makes them extremely important.

Perk also, when you combine how often he gets blocked on jump shots, dunks, and close shots, leads all big men! He's just too slow and predictable. Opposing players make him eat the ball more than any other big man in the league. Oh yeah, Perk basically gets assisted on his shots more than any big man in the league, which means when he doesn't get gift wrapped a wide open shot from Rondo, Pierce, or Garnett, he's a walking disaster.

I am curious how you got to this conclusion, given that 82games does not publish sortable player rankings. Or did you just single-handedly check every single big man in the league?

[q]Besides those glaring, backed-up statistical flaws to Perk's game (82games), he's by far one of the slowest and least skilled beg men in the league. He is also a bad free throw shooter, even as far as big men are concerned.[/quote]

But I'm sure someone will copy and paste this post and say, "No way! Perk is a beast, and he's great on defense!"

No, we would have done that if there were any _real_ arguments in your post.

And by the way, the reason why Perkins plays as much as he does is simple: all our big men play around 30 minutes a game: when you're carrying the frame of an NBA center, not playing too many minutes helps with fatigue, protects against injury, and keeps you out of foul trouble.

[kozlodoev]

  Maybe Doc's hoping that one of Baby and Sheed will be able to play themselves into shape.

Fat and round are shapes.

   Too funny.

Poor fat Davis is leading the team in offensive rebounds per game, despite the playing 17 mpg.

[KungPoweChicken]

How are these for reasons: according to 82games.com, Perk is one of the worst centers in the league at getting tips around the basket (an extremely important part of any big man's game).

This particular reason is, well, downright laughable. Tips = 1% of his shots total. I am sure that's what makes them extremely important.

Perk also, when you combine how often he gets blocked on jump shots, dunks, and close shots, leads all big men! He's just too slow and predictable. Opposing players make him eat the ball more than any other big man in the league. Oh yeah, Perk basically gets assisted on his shots more than any big man in the league, which means when he doesn't get gift wrapped a wide open shot from Rondo, Pierce, or Garnett, he's a walking disaster.

I am curious how you got to this conclusion, given that 82games does not publish sortable player rankings. Or did you just single-handedly check every single big man in the league?

[q]Besides those glaring, backed-up statistical flaws to Perk's game (82games), he's by far one of the slowest and least skilled beg men in the league. He is also a bad free throw shooter, even as far as big men are concerned.

But I'm sure someone will copy and paste this post and say, "No way! Perk is a beast, and he's great on defense!"

No, we would have done that if there were any _real_ arguments in your post.

And by the way, the reason why Perkins plays as much as he does is simple: all our big men play around 30 minutes a game: when you're carrying the frame of an NBA center, not playing too many minutes helps with fatigue, protects against injury, and keeps you out of foul trouble.
[/quote]






Yes, I checked all the stats on starting centers one by one. Just because you don't like my point or the facts doesn't mean, "there is no argument," like you eloquently said.

Oh, and you completely missed the part about the tips. Tips make up 1% of his total shots. That's exactly the point!But you missed it. It makes up 1% of his total shots, which means he's not active around the basket. Getting tips is an, "important part of any big man's game." But it's not important to Perk's game because he doesn't have the speed, skill, or awareness to do it. What don't you understand? Would you like to refute anything about how Perk leads centers in bad turnovers, getting blocked, or lacking tips?

[Spilling Green Dye]

To much Davis.  He is playing about 18 minutes a game the past two months. 


There should be more Perk/Wallace and KG/Wallace.   Less Davis/Wallace.


Davis should be playing closer to 8-10 minutes a game.

THANK YOU!  I had been preaching this since last season.  I'm fine with Davis on the team and getting some minutes, but on a championship caliber team he should not be getting more than 8 minutes. 

[kozlodoev]

Yes, I checked all the stats on starting centers one by one. Just because you don't like my point or the facts doesn't mean, "there is no argument," like you eloquently said.

No, just because you tried to push a point it doesn't mean it's there.

Comparing total stats without adjusting for minutes played is not exactly relevant for anything. Of the players listed as center, I found exactly 4 that have played both more games and more minutes per game than Perkins.

If Perkins leads the NBA just because he gets so many assisted shots, how come other centers, who play with just as good guys, how come other players who are on teams with better perimeter players and more willing passers can't duplicate the feat? Between making himself available for the pass, converting his shots, and playing within himself Perkins must be doing something right. Take your pick.

On inside shots, Perkins is just about par with about a large glut of NBA centers, who get their shot blocked 11-13% of the time. Using the overall shots blocked percentage is a convenient distortion, since just about any center who takes a jump shot every once in a while will have a lower shots blocked percentage than Perkins -- which has exactly zero implications about how efficient all those players are in putting the ball in the basket.

To reiterate my previous point, Perkins plays as much as he does because our team has an agenda to keep everyone who is 240 pounds or heavier on a ~30 minute per game agenda -- not because he hurts the team with the way he plays.

Frankly, this brand of use of statistics without a reasonable comparability basis is what gives the profession a bad name -- just ask Mark Twain

[wdleehi]

Why is Perk playing so few minutes? How are these for reasons: according to 82games.com, Perk is one of the worst centers in the league at getting tips around the basket (an extremely important part of any big man's game). Perk is also one of the worst, if not the worst big man (depending on how you interpret the stats), with the ball in his hands, just about leading all centers in categories of offensive fouls, dribbling turnovers, passing turnovers, and other turnovers. Perk also, when you combine how often he gets blocked on jump shots, dunks, and close shots, leads all big men! He's just too slow and predictable. Opposing players make him eat the ball more than any other big man in the league. Oh yeah, Perk basically gets assisted on his shots more than any big man in the league, which means when he doesn't get gift wrapped a wide open shot from Rondo, Pierce, or Garnett, he's a walking disaster.

Besides those glaring, backed-up statistical flaws to Perk's game (82games), he's by far one of the slowest and least skilled beg men in the league. He is also a bad free throw shooter, even as far as big men are concerned.

But I'm sure someone will copy and paste this post and say, "No way! Perk is a beast, and he's great on defense!"

How many of those offensive fouls are when the ball is in Perk's hands? 

Most are on those screens that he has to set within the offense that everyone knows the refs are going to call 2-3 times a game.


And how many of those TOs are offensive fouls called when he is setting the screen.

If you are going to mention TOs when the ball is in his hands, find out how many he actually commits in a game. 


Meanwhile, how many teams have a 5th option on the floor shooting at such a high % while scoring around 10 a game?

[Fafnir]

Perk does turn it over a a very high percentage of the time when he posts up. (somewhere around 30% of the time)

[Fafnir]

Perkins is playing around the minutes you want/need from him. He doesn't have the conditioning to play at 100% effectiveness if he was on the floor for more than 35 minutes tops.

Sheed gives Doc more options to play big but have a more offensive lineup out there. This leads to a lot more games where Perkins doesn't get as much 4th quarter burn as we're used to.

I still think Perkins should close out almost all games though.

[vgulab]

Perk isn't the best centar in the NBA now we all now that by i hate seeing Perk on the bench and Rasheed in. I agree with you that Davis is playing bad but what with Rasheed. He is playing good? He is terrible and i thing Danny made a mistake sign in him. On the defensive end he is not better than perk and on the offense he takes some stupid shoots and he is barely 40% shooting. I think it is time for perk to play more minutes and Shelden because he is a rebounder and he will help because we have problem with rebounds.My suggestion cut Rasheed and Davis minutes and give perk and shelden more minutes

[Brendan]

Statistical arguments rarely work on this board in my experience. You get the same argument baseball scouts used to protect their turf: "WT[H] - stats are meaningless, you have to watch the games" etc. The biggest flaw in your argument is that the O/P wants less BBD/Sheed and more Perk. Comparing Perk to other starting centers is meaningless - we need to compare him to the guys getting his minutes. FWIW - I think Perk is a good defender (but haven't checked the stats yet) and gives the Celts their best inside presence (KG and Sheed don't like to play underneath, and BBD is a bit short.) So even if his overall offense is poor - I think when KG and the wings are on he's a nice compliment.

Yes, I checked all the stats on starting centers one by one. Just because you don't like my point or the facts doesn't mean, "there is no argument," like you eloquently said.

Oh, and you completely missed the part about the tips. Tips make up 1% of his total shots. That's exactly the point!But you missed it. It makes up 1% of his total shots, which means he's not active around the basket. Getting tips is an, "important part of any big man's game." But it's not important to Perk's game because he doesn't have the speed, skill, or awareness to do it. What don't you understand? Would you like to refute anything about how Perk leads centers in bad turnovers, getting blocked, or lacking tips?

In fact going by adjusted +/- at 82games - playing Perk as many minutes as possible without lowering his effectiveness makes sense.

[droopdog7]

He can't spread the other teams defense with his impressive outside shooting. Or can you really call what Sheed puts up a "shot?"

While you are being sarcastic, this is truly the reason.  Perk isn't a very good offensive player.  Frankly, he isn't much of a threat at all.  So his presence on the floor I think hurts the other players offensive game.

Bottom line:  As much as many love Perk, and he does bring a certain swagger to the team, he is an average player. 

[footey]

The decline in Perk's efficiency is due in large part to KG's decline. Perk's numbers are much better when KG can draw the double teams.  Until he can do that again (if ever), we will see a less impressive Perk, especially on the offensive end.